Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Problems with Halsin's character, advances, LI and general character interactions, etc.

Regardless, the whole Mizora interaction is just...awful imho. The whole concept is so bizarre to me.



This is so screwed up, poor Halsin

I haven't followed this discussion super closely recently so pardon me if I get something wrong, but there's an aspect of this whole situation that I do find pretty weird. I don't know polyamory super well personally, but I have known one or two people who are polyamorous, and I've seen discussions of it with moderate frequency elsewhere, so I'm not speaking in total ignorane when I say that in general, a polyamorous relationship doesn't strictly mean that the people within it are seeing other people at that exact moment. Two poly people don't stop being poly if they're only in a relationship with each other for a while. Halsin saying that you have to be actively pursuing someone else to be with him seems strange to me in light of that. It doesn't seem crazy to me that he would just be with Tav and be fine with only Tav for like, the week or two that the final part of the game seemingly takes place in? It's not like prior to that he's expressed strong emotional connections to any other companions that he'd feel compelled to pursue, and it's not like he'll have a lot of time to meet new folks while he's busy saving the world with us.

I get what you mean and I agree with you, that a person doesn't necessarily become monogamous just because they date just one person, that's right.

Still this would give enough room to even have more or less three different endings:

A) Halsin is in a polyship with the Tav, but not dating anyone else right now
B) Halsin is in a monoship with the Tav
C) Halsin is in a polyship with the Tav and is dating someone else too

Right now Halsin is written inconsistenly, so there is enough room for some improvement. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Halsin is not poly, he is mostly written like that and he should stay like that for everyone who wants him to be this way, but still same could be possible for a monoship.
I never asked for removal of his poly side, I always asked more for adding additional paths.

EDIT:
Personally I would like to see Halsin dating others just to see the difference between mono and poly.

EDIT 2:
Well he has enough time to whittle, to get engaged with the drow twins, getting known to 9 wagons full of kids, having sex with us and so on, so I think time is a 50/50 point. Also he still could date another companion and if Larian really wanted to come up with it, they could find ideas. It's not like their are not bending lots of stuff already for stuff to work (and I'm not even talking about all the plotholes).
If anything, it feels more like they have some kind of vacation in Baldur's Gate, it's not like we have a brain eating thing in our head or there are still two guys who are up to some bad stuff, nope. Moonrise and the dungeons below it has been the climax and from then on it went downwards.

Wow, the voice actor's interpretation of Astarion is sublime. Despite not seeing his face, it feels like his voice is breaking when he speaks, almost as if he's holding back tears, especially when he says, 'I deserve something better than this.' I felt the urge to give him a hug and tell him that everything will be okay e_e. I'm sure Shadowheart's voice actress could do something similar. Hopefully, her writer sees this and sets aside their cuckold fetishes for at least 1 minute to learn about how real-life couples react to infidelity.

I really wish they would do this with Shadowheart in the Selune route. I suppose this makes it clear that Astarion is not comfortable with sharing when he accepts Halsin's poly proposal. All the dialogues I've seen so far seem to indicate that he agrees to you being with others because he's insecure about you leaving him due to a lack of sex. It's totally out of place for Halsin to interfere in that relationship. Now I realize that Shadowheart is the only one who accepts that shit.

So Astarion is comfortable saying he won't share the player with Shadowheart, Lae'zel, Wyll, Karlach, Minthara, or Gale, is comfortable saying he isn't ready at the Drow brothel if this is done before the Cazador confrontation, is willing to break up with the player if they have sex with Mizora without talking to him first... but when it's Halsin, magically, he becomes a horribly weak and pathetic people pleaser who could NEVER EVER say no to changes in their romantic relationship? That's somehow more probable than the idea that he is okay with Halsin because he has experience with poly relationships (which he explicitly GIVES as his reason) and which is in contrast to Shadowheart and others, who he says would inevitably end badly because they've never done this before?

Maybe spawn Astarion will get tweaks to his Halsin's dialogue too. I just hope they will not forget about selune Shadowheart and give her justice too.

Look, I'm not an expert on Astarion, and I don't intend to be. Surely, someone more knowledgeable about him will come along and answer you, but as far as I know, Halsin's proposal occurs before Astarion overcomes his trauma, before the cazador mission (at least in the version of the game I have). It's at that moment when Astarion refuses to join with the twins because he still doesn't feel ready. If we're lucky, Larian might tweak the game code a bit so that the proposal doesn't seem so out of place when Halsin makes it. As neTav mentioned, they could also change his reaction, given that they did so with Mizora, and if we're even luckier, maybe they'll do something similar with Shadowheart.

I've already submitted feedback on the Shadowheart issue (first time doing so). It's on Discord; you can read it if you want. I poured all the love I have left for Shadowheart into that text (the little that remains).

Your post is amazing. Don't lose hope, no point to. She is lovely character that deserves all the love. We all know what happened there(especially after mr. writer admitted it). Look at her epilogue and what she is.
Check private messages

Can you link me a source to that please?

If it's the tweet I'm thinking of, the person you're replying to is being deliberately obtuse, as the Tweet was their writer snarking about people calling Halsin a self-insert and saying that him saying he likes ducks just like Halsin is sure to bring more of the accusations from people who lack any semblance of critical thinking skills (my words, not his, he just was taking the piss out of people who make the unfounded accusations of Halsin being his self-insert).

Which bascially confirms it being self-insert. But okay.

A self-insert is a character the writer puts in the story who is indistinguishable from themself, often even having the same name. It is not the same as a writer giving a few of their quirks/idiosyncrasies to a character. Unless you're saying that every author who has every given a character a shared race, religion, sexuality, gender identity, disability, hobby, lived experience, hometown, fear, quirk, habit, favorite/least favorite food, book, subject, animal, or so on is writing a self-insert too. God forbid it comes to light that Karlach's writer is also fond of mutton.

The new Mizora reaction is still not implemented and it's only for Spawn Astarion. I don't know whether it's pre- or post- his personal quest. The current one for Ascended Astarion actually fits pre-Cazador spawn where he pretends he's fine with it. His body movement is more like him and especially the laughter is the theatrical, high-pitched Spawn exclusive giggle rather than the deep laugh of the Ascendant. Seeing that AA is the most possessive romantic partner, I'd imagine him to be upset about Tav going behind his back and someone else getting a piece of his "treasure" while he wasn't looking. In one banter with him Minthara comments what a special bond he has with Tav that both his eyes and fangs don't wander to other necks. In the epilogue party he even says "Heavens help the fool who tries to get in our way". He and Tav are joined at the hip and he's always observing them.

Even if AA or post-Cazador Spawn agrees to sleep with the drow twins he still gets PTSD.

He doesn't like Halsin and merely tolerates Tav's affair with him. Just because he agrees to the arrangement due to the druid's experience doesn't mean he's happy about it. I'd say the main difference pre-Cazador is that he greenlights it because he's scared of losing Tav (and it's something he doesn't have to participate in like in Sharess' Caress). After his quest he becomes more confident that Tav won't leave him (especially AA), but it's still something he allows, not wants.

100% this. I don't care what the dev notes say. This feels so grossly like coersion and that Tav is just looking for dick. If Halsin is just a "harmless affair" then its not a romantic relationship. They tried to do both at the same time and it doesnt work.

So Halsin saying what he does when solomancing adds further insult to injury. He was set up to only be a temporary side affair, and thats it, as evidenced from his original ending where he just fucks off even when solomanced. Thats not what was being asked for from EA. And thats not what some of us were trying to do when persuing him. His new epilogue softened the blow a bit, by giving us the option to go with him. But as far as I know he never actually aknowledges the relationship between him and Tav. "What we have is fluid" is NOT a confirmation, and even if hes poly you still have to confrim that there is a relationship with your partner/s. You still have to commit. But the language he uses is conflicting and confusing, probably because the writers were trying to hide the fact that he is just supposed to be an affair with a romantic lense. I dont want him to be an affair, he is my beloved.

There's also this thing that you are quite likely to first enter the brothel and then get Halsin's proposition. I am not sure what it is like for Wyll, but in case of both Astarion and Gale (though it was way worse for Gale before the recent patch) the brothel scene basically serves to establish Halsin as the sex-eager, virile, "fun" choice of partner compared to the other guys who have their reservations. In this order of events, it adds a special layer of discomfort to the discussions with your partner and gives Astarion's "because we haven't in a while" an extra sting.

I wouldn't treat devnotes as gospel either. It was all put there as an initial intent or during development stages, and things might have changed since the inclusion of these lines. What is important is the end result and what we have in the game. Astarion is never fully on board with poly. He only agrees to it out of fear or to please his partner.


This! Ugh, it's so cringy.

I dont mind Halsin being sexually experienced, open minded, or even bringing a bit of fun into sex. Thats part of what I like about him. But the way it was implemented in game feels so...gross. It feels less like an experienced, relaxed older man wanting to have fun with his lover; rather he gives off vibes of a self righteous hedonist who seeks out his pwn pleasure wherever, whenever, with whoever, and as long as he gets what he wants screw everything else. Which is contradictory to his more romantic dialogue, which seems to be so sweet and dedicated. Theres so many mixed signals here.

Its also why Act 3 kind of feels *too* horny. Mizora, the drow twins, it almost eclipses the romance. Especially since you are hit with it so soon, which conflicts emotionally with what we just went through in Act 2. Especially Mizora. Like yea, I get it, shes hot and players will want to bang her. But her propositioning me came out of nowhere. Why on earth would I want to sleep with her when shes been antagonizing me and my comrades?

Halsin not feeling betrayed by it bothers me, poly or not. Shes a devil, shes a bad guy. Tav doesnt ask beforehand. And all he has to say about it is "Oh well glad you had a good time, I gotta git gud in bed tho now huh amirite?"

Oh, are you gonna pull out "actually" meme?
We all know which things made ppl accuse writer of Halsin being self-insert and he admitted it bascially.
Pure coincidence that guy is obsessed with bears, likes ducks etc., alright dude.

Halsin polymance with Astarion is terrible and utterly disgusting the way it was implemented. Pre-Cazador he's inserting himself into a relationship that's going through a sexless period of time to give Astarion space to figure things out - aka taking advantage of the fact that Tav is thirsty and deprived. After finishing Astarion's quest, he's also intruding while Astarion is just starting to reestablish himself and the relationship goes through a transformation and becomes more defined, which is yet again exploiting the moment when Astarion is feeling better after destroying his abuser and feeling like he should reward Tav for their help. It's also icky because they finally become sexually intimate again, and then Halsin is seducing Tav, which sends Astarion a message that he is not enough after all (doubly so, since he considered his sexual expertise to be his only talent).

It's clear Halsin was added there as an option only because Astarion was and still is the most popular male romance, and not because it fit his character and story.


There's also Haarlep, the tentacle monster and the nymph who offers mind pleasures. All of these plus Halsin if you're not romancing him. It's too much. Mizora is clearly doing it for her own nefarious reasons, not because she likes Tav. Reason one: create discord and possibly destroy Tav's romance with someone else. Reason two: create an infernal connection with Tav. She tells them they are forever marked and their soul burns with flame. The narrator also says something about awakening a devil within and being undone and reformed in flesh and spirit. It sounds like they are bound to each other in some ways, perhaps on a soul level. I'm not familiar enough with the lore to explain it properly and suggest what consequences this might have.