Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Astarion romance improvements

Exactly, I think a lot of people are judging us for the wrong reasons. We don't want to change Astarion we just want to change how we/our character feel about the kisses, that's all. I always knew that by accepting the ritual he would become an evil vampire lord and I'm fine with that. It's a roleplaying game, let me enjoy it!

But as much as I would like to change the expressions I don't think they are going to do it...we are a minority. I'm thinking about it carefully and I'm sure Larian wants to make it clear our character is being abused. It doesn't matter if you like AA, the goal is to make you feel like you've made a mistake and realizing this makes me so sad that I can no longer enjoy my evil path if I'm romancing him (or maybe the solution is just to ignore my Durge's sad face) I don't like to complain and bother Larian about something secondary like kisses, I can see all the work and effort they are doing to improve this game but for the first time I have found myself needing to send feedback because I have felt bad about something that was supposed to be good for all fans...Idk. At least it's nice to know I'm not alone in this matter.



Surely they are going to add new kisses for him and hopefully they'll also add a special one before the final battle. I'm positive about Spawn Astarion and I'm sure he will get more love



100% that's how I roleplay with my Durge. Let her enjoy AA kisses!

I wish they'd fix the one he did get. I noticed this morning by accident that the reason why his new kiss looks so weird is that it was made for larger characters and not really modified for a PC of Astarion's size or shorter. So he now makes this weird bend down movement so he can kiss upward, which results in this very awkward, unnatural movement - and hides everything behind his shoulder. - Before I thought it was a weird design choice.

How could they get all the other kisses right, but dropped the ball with all Astarion kisses? Amazing.



Now that I've mocked the new kisses, the censorship of the romance scene (in his Ascended Romance Scene thread), it's time for the "You're my favourite" line:

I agree that the new "You're my favorite" line is really jarring considering he doesn't have spawn yet. Let alone spawn that he knows well unless it's a companion we don't know about. Very out of place. It's like their goal was to prove a point no matter how much sense it doesn't make.

Considering how much extra content Karlach Origin got for Astarion's romance, my snide comment would be that it's ok as long as it looks nice with Karlach, no? I mean, please do compare:

Perfectly nice kiss:

With a smaller frame:

I agree. It's out of place. He would have said "consort" or the like. I wanted to defend Larian and hope for an oversight.
But almost no one, I talked with or reading their comments, likes this new sentence in their romance and almost everyone associates it with the thought that Larian wanted to turn Astarion on the go on 180 degrees and, at the same time, to deliberately hurt the players, who chose this route. If that would be the case, it would be very sad how a fan base and minority can be so willfully excluded from a game. I've never experienced this in any other game.



It's so sad to hear, what you have experienced, I feel with you and I want to thank you, for telling us. I just hope, other people, who are indiffferent, will understand, how triggering these scenes (Tav's portrayal) can be for a lot of people. It's not just a kissing bug, that wouldn't be that much of a problem.. but suddenly facing extreme sexual violence (added later after 6 month!) in your romance, where players have put their hearts into it, is painful and triggering.

OF COURSE it works well with Karlach. At least her first kiss with Astarion is no longer exclusive to her. Still, the facial animations don't fit Tav. For Karlach they made sense, she'd definitely be rethinking her life choices when romancing Astarion, seeing what a goody-two-shoes hormonal teen she is.


If it was just one thing it could have been a misstep, but three things that mess up the AA romance? Plus poor job with SA kiss, less kisses than everyone else, no new lines, and his fake smile in the epilogue? Yeah... Totally deliberate. Someone at Larian just hates Astarion, and they made it very obvious.

Yes, it was in the fall. A lot of people know that, In detail. You could, for the sake of a mental experiment, switch places if it was said about Spawn End and even more realize how inappropriate that is. You heard right, but I don't think this is the place to discuss it. But it still the elephant in the room.


An acquaintance said it's more about flavor, like taste. Like a delicious dish


The most frustrating part is that it's literally rewriting story. Yes, it is. Here
Just traveling, enjoying life together or making power in the city together.
I hope Larian doesn't rewrite the original narrative.

It's true that the epilogue has other answers besides "freedom?" - where lover and ally.
Which really gave hope, as here have written, that the line of complex evil would continue in a pretty good way.
But now the kiss literally victimizes and distressed player. A kiss.
There is a strange, obscure to me opinion in the community that evil - must suffer, not happy, not able to love tenderly (or does it only work with Astarion there must be a reason ranging from DnD to real psychology).
Evil is punished in fairy tales. If something is evil (it does), there shouldn't be anything else and it's still bad if anything is - reduction to caricature. B&W, Purity culture.

In my opinion caricaturing evil, flat out, is a devaluing of good. They should be equally appealing to themselves to make it fun to think and play.

I don't know... The whole dialogue is:

Tav: Could I kiss you?
Astarion: How could I say no? You are my favourite, after all.

If Tav was telling him he can bite them, then yes, I'd agree, seeing that he'd tasted enemies while fighting with Tav, and they'd certainly be his favourite snack. But with kisses? It really sounds like he's referring to the type of person they are, rather than a meal. He's basicly saying he cannot deny Tav's request because they are the best (for reasons). His other line is: "Oh, I can refuse you nothing".


Well... seeing what kind of vomit inducing, tooth-rotting, naive storybook the Spawn epilogue party is... I think fairytale moralising is exactly what they're going for right now.

The epilogue is more completely fanservicey. Even if something not sweet happens we aren't shown.
Spawn Astarion, for example, says he'll put spawns on spikes if they get naughty. Not the most merciful punishment in the world for uncontrolled (?) hunger.
But for Astarion to stay in the party if Cazador isn't defeated and denied help in the epilogue. He'd be sent to hell and gone, overturning the table wouldn't he?

What stresses me out the most is the 7k story, as if it's a good(?) thing to let them go. "It's okay, everybody's OK". As stated in the letter. Even if they say it's good in big letters, I won't believe it. It's just trading mortals for undead though. Because zero chance that 7k undead won't bring death, and they're already. In the developers notes it says "pure evil" when one of the spawns is overcome by hunger. Also killing them is called "mercy killing". Just kill. Kill for Power. Leave it in the cages. Let it go.

Anyway... knees on randoms, anywhere, with a frightened face when the player clicks, character comes closer and can break up (tadpole), since so afraid and doesn't like dark side Astarion (although last night - loved it). ...

He must have been inspired by Vellioth skull's memories of Cazador and his 11 years of punishment.


The obvious attempt to emotionally manipulate us with Sebastian and the Gur children and paint an army of feral vampires being let loose (which is full of former petty criminals, street drunkards and brothel-goers, who are now much more powerful than before and will take advantage of it against their targets, also hungry and very likely insane after decades of rotting in their cells) as the right thing to do will never cease to amuse me.

It's the same with Karlach - they tried so hard to make me like her, that I now loathe her.

I’ve been lurking on these forms without an account for a little, but ended up making an account to put my thoughts out there too.

I’m really glad to see others feel the same way about the changes to the AA kisses / censored sex scene.

Ascended Astarion’s sex scene continue to have things added (like the candles, or fading to black) to hide the scene, while more graphic scenes like Minthara remain unchanged. It just seems weird that this keeps happening with specifically AA?

I use to really enjoy this game, but haven’t been able to play it since the patch 6 kisses. It’s upsetting since I’ve raves about this game since its release. I really like the kisses for AA, however, Tav/Durge’s facial expression completely take me out of the role playing of the game. None of the other romance paths seem to have kisses where Tav/Durge looks scared/unhappy.

It may seem minor to some people in the community, but it has completely deflated my interest since someone at Larian continues to push this agenda that AA is abusive/soulless/etc in my opinion. I enjoyed this path since it itches my dark romance enjoyment, and is cathartic with my own trauma. Now it just feels like I’m being preached at for deciding to do an evil run, which isn’t something I’m really interested in for a RP game.

Thank you so much for taking the time to share your opinion!


Yeah, it's impressively eh.. Astarion kills my Tav in the first act and there's an opportunity to say, "Would you like another drink?" every day.
Manipulated, lied, used and was an evil character - all good the toxic romance works, hugs, kisses, happy faces.
Able to kill Tav if wrongly interrupted ritual, all is well f8 the tale of love with a vampire continues.
Tav is not Tav after the ritual, lost yourself.
What happens to DU who enjoys own death and pain in general is a mystery.

Good thing I’m at the point where I’ve stopped playing BG3.

The morality police and general trolling was already too much for this AA fan and the kisses really sealed the deal.

The salt in that wound was that these kisses came from Larian themselves… if that doesn’t show their intentions towards AA, including MORE CENSORSHIP for his sex scene, I don’t think anything will.

I’ve logged my feedback with Larian and I’m done with this universe. I’m keeping my fingers crossed that one day vampire fans will truly get an RPG where ‘dark power couple rules eternally’ will actually be a thing, but for now it’s a pipe dream.

I don't understand why Karlach Origin gets all the attention and work for Astarion romance. Karlach does not seem like a good match for Astarion to me, not for AA, and not even for spawn Astarion. She is exactly as you described her: a goody-two-shoes hormonal teen. I know Karlach fans might hate me for saying that but Astarion is a dark character, even by the end of the game as spawn. He likes killing and violence, even if he channels it onto bad people. He is harsh with punishment towards other spawn that break the rules. He believes in harsh punishment in general, as we've seen him comment on it throughout the game, specifically when going through the trials of Ansur with Wyll. Karlach is way too good to be happy with Astarion. She is only ever attracted to him in the first place due to his looks and he's good in bed. They just don't mesh well personality wise to me. So why is Tav, and especially Dark Urge, neglected with Astarion's romance while a character that doesn't go well with him get all this work put into them?

Maybe because she's the best example of their agenda with Astarion? Karlach is a motherly character and the Spawn route is basicly becoming Astarion's mum deciding things for him and his great protector. If she goes with AA they show him being very unhappy about the fact he cannot turn her into a vampire and saying hurtful things towards her (which is basicly the game proving how incompatible they are - she is so goody-two-shoes that her whole body protests against the transformation into an evil bloodsucker, unlike in all the other scenes where she turns blue).

Either way, it's the game creating it's own fanfiction because Karlach would never allow him to ascend. Same as Astarion would never stay with a mind flayer but when you play as him you can make him kiss her tentacles.

Because she is the game's Mary Sue and Mary Sue needs to be yearned for by the hot guy. *coughs*

Yes, she is a Mary Sue but she's the only one who does the yearning actually. There is not even one dialogue or banter that suggests any interest in her from Astarion. This banter speaks for itself:

Karlach: I never was a sucker for a smooth-talker... but I admit Astarion... you're... pretty slick.
Astarion: And you're rather the opposite of slick. Do you have a point?
Karlach: I was just being nice.
Astarion: [Gasps] Step one of starting a conversation: Think before you speak.
Karlach: Never was my strong suit.

Astarion doesn't like stupid people and makes fun of them whenever he can.

Larian revealed once that 90% of players make a custom character, which is Tav. Why neglect the character that is played most often and spend most work on Karlach Origin that is played by less than 10% of players?

I really dislike mary sue characters, which is why I'm not a big Karlach fan. I mean if a writer enjoys writing a mary sue that's fine but not when it comes at the expense of other characters.

While I like the epilogue with romanced Astarion before the epilogue party, the dialogue seems not as sincere or loving as in Karlach Origin and it is really disappointing. Why does a niche origin character get so much more work compared to what most people are playing?

Yes, normally, but in the gamified fanfiction that is her Origin, she is Tav and hence desirable and desired by any and all. Including the bad boy beau bloodsucker, who squeezes her name into basically every line during their modified tête-à-tête in the woods, so that it really does sounds like exceptionally clunky fanfiction, dreamed up by the horny-teen-soldier who desperately needs romance in her life.

Whenever I feel a little disgruntled that they didn't even bother to change the approval for blood drinking during sex for Gale, the way that scene was handled with Karlach reminds me that there are worse things than neglect.

Edit: As someone who does like playing Origin characters I do appreciate it when situations are modified to fit the Origin. Usually those are either things that are meaningful to the character or small modifications made to better accommodate the character. The reason why I - and I think a lot of other people - like to make fun of the modification of especially Astarion's romance to fit Karlach is, because it's so disproportionally big, tailored to one specific romance and very fanficy in nature.