Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Problems with Halsin's character, advances, LI and general character interactions, etc.

Instead of quoting a lot of stuff, I will just write down my thoughts.

One of the most obvious problems is, that Halsin is supposed to be polyamorous but the way it is portayed with him not acknowledging the relationship it depicts this in a very toxic way. Being in a polyship doesn't mean you can just get any d*ck or p*ssy you want as if you are single.
His whole "being fluid" contradicts his romantic lines (especially the "I want only you...").

But, the biggest flaw for me is simply the betrayal done by Larian.
EA had no polyship but 5 (6 with Karlach) companions with a solomance (at least in act 1 and there have been no hints about polymance coming in act 2 or further) and that's exactly what people were asking for regarding Halsin. Everyone was happy when they announced that he will be added and Larian didn't even say a word about how different he is going to be.
When the game got released and we all could see what they had done to him (and subsequently to a couple of other companions to get the whole polyship-thing rolling), we were shocked (aside from the horny crowd who desperately need two boyfriends or who can now have their even weirder headcanons going crazy).
Said horny crowd has been catered to since (at least mostly). So who has been left alone? A lot of people who decided to pay Larian upfront on EA, who just wanted MORE of what has already been in the game and not the complete exchange of Halsin with his more sex-driven twin who has lost most of his characteristics.
A lot of these people have given up since and of course we all know why Larian isn't doing anything about that: They already got their money and those people are not tweeting about the game 24/7 (which is free marketing, basically).

I can imagine those people thinking twice before paying again for a (Larian) Early Access. Speaking from my personal experience: I've paid for several EA games and never has the full game been so different from Early Access. I mean, changes are fine, especially if they are based on lot of feedback but Larian removed so many good things for nothing it seems (or more like for a plot that is at best a 5/10 and has it's climax in act 2).
All of that lead to so many inconsistencies and so many dumb decisions. Adding polyamory to many existing and established companions (and story) was just the worst decision they could come up with. Either include it right from the start or just keep it in mind for your next game.
As someone on this thread always kept saying: "Poly people don't become mono" (or something along the lines), so that also means that "Mono people don't become poly", nevertheless Larian made said changes to some companions (where is your complaint in that case?)

Why can't we also have Halsin on two different paths like Astarion or SH?
Let us have:
1) the solomance Daddy Halsin, who likes romantic talk, wants a long lasting relationship and regrets not having a family and now gets the chance to actually have one with the Tav and the orphans - and maybe even his own child some day. Just like people expected him to be based on his EA characterization.
2) the sugar "Daddy" Halsin, who is all about sex, free hearts and open minds as a sex toy (maybe even a pseudo-relationship). Most people who like him this way don't even care that it's not a real representation of a polyship.
As some of you already said, having both at the same time doesn't work at all, so they need to be seperated.

Also, this whole "I hate civilization" thing is nuts. Correct me if I'm wrong, but even the Emerald Grove shows obvious characteristics of a civiluzation: A complex social structure with hierarchies (Archdruid as leader), social and material exchange, and economy (e.g. presence of a merchant). So does he make a difference just based on population numbers? Then he should say so and not say something like "I don't live by the rules of civilizations" (not the original quote).

EDIT:
Regarding Mizora and Haarlep, there is another contradiction. Halsin tells Tav to be cautious and that the honeypot is full of bees (Click here when Haarlep asks for sex yet when it comes to Mizora, he is fine with it and more like "I need to double my efforts". But, as I am comparing content that has been added later on with what's possibly in the game on release, it would be just fair for us to give Larian some time, maybe they change the Mizora dialogue.

Brudda, you've been here long enough to know exactly why people view Halsin the way they do.

I think this has more to do with stereotypes and the god he worships. Silvanus is not a fan of civilization according to his wiki, he is a god of unbridled nature. Halsin is written not as a druid with a deep relationship and understanding of nature, but a holier than thou hippie in act 3. Druids have no problem eating meat and using animal products for example, but many lay people will interpet druids as the vegan type. Jahiera for example, had no issue with the city. His whole bit about bears when talking about the bank shows he doesnt know anything about real bears. I blame his writer. I still like the idea of him not being a huge fan of cities, thats fair. But the detestment about a way of life he has no idea about is really...idk makes him not look good. He doesnt know the customs of the city life but hes so quick to judge. How does a wise old experienced archdruid become so judgemental about a lifestyle with so little experience and information?

Him seeing the suffering the city has and being disheartened by it, however, is not a bad concept and is something I would like to see Tav help him and support him with.

I've not been able to read back through this thread due to forum timeout issues, but our moderator attention has been drawn to it so can I please remind everyone to steer well clear of making negative comments about individuals or groups of people, rather than debating views or opinions.

And while the BG3 companions are fictional characters they all have passionate fans and defenders who can be upset or hurt by hate or vitriol directed at their favourites, so it is kind to bear that in mind when formulating even valid critiques. Also please be very mindful of the fact that many of the points raised here have implications for very personal parts of people's real lives, and we are not necessarily going to be the best judge of when we are inadvertently being offensive when we are talking about topics that don't affect us directly. Please listen to the people who tell you that they feel your comments suggest negative or judgemental views about real life sexual or romantic choices, and be ready to moderate your language.

And also everyone *please* recognise when you have made your views clear and be prepared to agree to disagree. Not everyone can have the last word, and it's not fair to keep spamming the forums (when we can get into them!) with the same points again and again. Consider taking the high road, and not responding when you don't have anything significantly new to add, even if someone says something you (still) disagree with.

I didn't know about that aspect of Silvanus tbh, but I need to look more into that. If it's against civilization itself, then living in the grove would also be somewhat against his believes. It's like you said, he judges a lifestyle he doesn't know (same as he judges living in a monoship, btw).
Could you explain what exactly he says "when talking about the bank"?


The last part you said would make up for a nice little story with him but I guess that would be too much work. Maybe adding a new line to the ending, that he learned that not everything about city life is bad, would also be nice. I would love to see him as someone who reflect upon what he experienced and how his point of view might have changed.

I have to say that I've enjoyed reading everyone's posts (almost everyone's) for the last page or so. It just goes to show that people haven't only attached themselves to these characters but that they also care about the writing and how it comes across. (Something that I am interested in.)

Same with Astarion and how he's written, regardless of what the dev notes or their intentions were (which in my not so humble opinion, those pertaining to Halisn, were added after the original story of these character were finished or close to being finished, thus the huge discrepancy with them. As if he was latched on in the end.) Shadowheart suffers the same affliction.

Or I would say that this whole game suffers from Larians need to add a sexual spin to everything even if it may come to the detriment of the story.

Both Astarion and Shadowheart in their romances are portrayed as broken people haunted by their past, conflicted by the things they must to do survive/appease their deity and their feelings for the MC. But by the end of it they are both established as fully committed and in love, avoiding anything that could compromise their connection/relationship to the MC.
And yet the developers thought it would be for the best to add Halsin/Mizora to their stories and romances ignoring what the game and its story have trained the player to expect up to that point.

I've written extensively about the disconnect between Shadowhearts story/romance and the scenes containing both Mizora and Haslin so I wont get too much into it and others were kind enough to add that for Astarion.

But it is baffling and an eyesore to see a character that from the first private conversation with the MC shows interest and insecurity in how much she is attracted to them, being possessive of the MC and the connection that she has formed with them to the point that she would reject any attempt at opening the relationship stating that she's not interested next to explaining why it wont work, even initiating the break up conversation if the mc were to pursue someone else at the same time.

(Hell, even in party banter she rejects playful proposals :

Shadowheart: Do vampires actually usually drink blood out of goblets like in the storybooks? Doesn't seem very fresh.
Astarion: Straight from the neck is preferred, but goblets are used in mortal company. They save on awkwardness.
Astarion: We could share a drink some night, if you're curious. A nice red wine in your goblet, of course.
Shadowheart: Very kind of you, but I'm saving my best bottle for someone already.

And there's more in the party banter and in her normal conversations.)

To a character that as soon as she finishes expressing her love and wish to spend the rest of her life with the MC to immediately flirting with Haslin and admitting that she's been fantasizing of sleeping with him during her relationship with the MC. You'd think she would brush off Haslin with a sarcastic or a rude remark (based on her personality and story the game has shown the player up to that point) but she is more than inviting to the point of forgetting that she's in a relationship.

To go back to the whole idea of Larian and its writers (especially John) putting a sexual spin on everything. Something that was brought to my attention by another players has to be Shadowhearts training and years under the Sharan cult and her reaction to certain thing in her finale.

It is well known that she was kidnaped as a child and forced to undergo years of abuse and torture (even being forced to torture her parents), that she constantly had her mind wiped since the brainwashing wouldn't stick because of her rejection of the Sharan ways. But John and the game are telling the player that Shadowheart is appalled by the things that were done to here but the sexual aspect were pleasant?

You are telling me that a character that was abused and magically had her memories wiped was okay with people that she didn't like or outright hated (Nocturne being her only friend) using her for their sexual pleasure. I'm sorry but I'm confused. You wrote a character that says all of these atrocities that were done to me were bad but the rape, totally fine.

You could've written a character that wasn't an amnesiac abused by her goddess that was sexually open/all about sharing and no one would bat an eye (think Isabella from DA2. Which by the way is funny because Isabella becomes committed by the end whereas Shadowheart, a character that is adamant in only wanting the MC or only being kinky with the MC suddenly starts flirting with Halsin out of nowhere.) but you didn't do that.

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As for the tweet that John made in regards to Halsin being his self insert that both @Netav and @AutisticHaslin brought up. I have to say that Netav misinterpreted Johns intention with that tweet, the tweet wasn't an admittance but a dig at his critics seeing how John has a hard time accepting criticism and surrounds himself with certain type of people that cater to him and he caters to them.

But regardless of his intention with the tweet there is enough of evidence within the game to show Johns disregard for the story, the lore and the player/players choice for his own wishes. (Halsin looking the way he does, which isn't lore friendly. Sharan cults whole portrayal, being turned into a sex cult that to has orgies and accepts cucks to quote that one book in the game. There's more on his twitter in regards to the cult but I'll just write one thing, paraphrasing 'they don't have personal rooms and sleep in dormitories because its easier to start orgies that way'. And of course the Shadowhearts sudden lust for Halsin mid her confession of love for the MC)

Every writer puts a bit of themselves in their writing but unfortunately for the player, John overindulged which lead to people speculating the whole self insert thing.

*** PARAGRAPH REMOVED BY MODERATOR FOR PERSONAL ATTACK ON FELLOW FORUM MEMBER ***


And that is why I don't think anything will change. Some players and even users on this forum have brought up that nothing will get fixed because of Johns pride but I would go further and say that nothing will change because he is more interested in catering to these kinds of people. (only interacting with them on Twiter while ignoring any kind of criticism) Here's to being proven wrong in the future.

And finally I would like to say that no matter my disagreement with certain fans or the choices that developers/writers have made I do not hold any ill will/hate or have I ever sent any threats/harassment towards them and I never will. (I don't even have Twitter or use any other social platform) I hope that everyone shares this sentiment, my post has only been an observation of certain things that have happened within this game and its fanbase.

edit. Seems the RedQueen made a post about this wile I was writing this post. I will keep the post up but will refrain from continuing this discussion any further.

@Rotsen, I'm very disappointed to see you personally attacking autistichalsin only two posts after I appealed for people to not make personal attacks. Your accusations also don't match any moderator reports we have received.

Please, no more.

Thats why I think splitting Shadowheart on Shar and Selune route would be the best thing and this will make sense.
Sharran SH obviously thinks that Shar is nice(w/e) and she follows Sharran ways with pride, so she should be fine with everything that was mentioned(literally reaction that we have on live is good for that route). Selune SH obviously is traumatized by memories and everything that happened there and in distress, she wants to get as far as possible from Shar influence and Sharran ways(she literally says this).

Like I've wrote in my edit, that post was being written while you made your post so I didn't see it in time. But out of respect for you position and the things you have to deal with I will disengage.

*** UNVERIFIED ACCUSATIONS ABOUT OTHER FORUM MEMBER REMOVED BY MODERATOR ***

Either way, no more. Like you said.

There's gotta be some wiggle room in there when it comes to Silvanus. I dont expect Silvanus worshippers to be living like wild animals, theyre thinking beings after all. But its the excuse to have Halsin shit on Baldurs Gate and act all holier than thou.

The bank thing I thought was wierd. So at the bank, Halsin makes a comment about the money hoarding, and how its selfish and can be used to help people blah blah blah. Shart says in response dont bears also horde and gorge themselves? Halsin responds with something about only until the frost has thawed, implying bears dont spend the entire freaking year gorging amd hunting, foraging and scavenging anything they can when they can. Bears dont share with other animals. Animals arent kind and help eachother. It shows a complete disconnect from what nature really is. It made me cringe really hard, espescially given that there was a whole group of volunteers in Wyrms Crossing collecting donations to help the refugees, which is something that would NEVER happen in nature.


I dont want to change his view really. I thought it was something my ranger Tav could connect with him on. "I see the same suffering you do Halsin, but I disagree that it is a rot in the city. Nature can be just as cruel, just as heartless. There are many parallels between civilization and the wilds, and people and animals are more alike than we think. Everyone is just trying to survive in their own ways. But...I do think I prefer the beauty and serenity of the wilds."

He decides he wants to help those suffering in the city, and takes them to reestablish a colony in Reithwin, giving them a chance to rebuild and live better lives. Tav, his lover, goes with him and helps him in this.

I just dont like how holier than thou he gets about city stuff.

The part about the bears and horde and gorge is really cringe, not gonna lie.

As for changing his views, for me it's more about changing some nuances of his view, like I would like to see that it's not the orphans that made him change his way of living, but also the whole journey. I mean, in the end we not only lifted the curse but we also saved the world, so within all of that, there has to be something that he can take with him. If he still doesn't like the city, then it's fine, but as I said, I would like to see more of a nuanced view on civilization and the city instead of the whole black and white opinions. He is wise, he should be capable of reflecting upon all he saw to see the little details.

Even if they were to separate SH's poly path I still couldn't see Halsin being okay with being in a relationship involving a Shar worshiper. You know the goddess that caused him a century of trauma, almost killing his childhood friend, cursing nature, etc. It would feel super weird to me.

It's "V" anyway and he doesn't seem to care now. Besides, DJ SH still helps him lift the curse. Also with that logic he should instantly put an ultimatum even in act 1 when he realises that she worships Shar.

I both agree and disagree.

I agree that I think Halsin is too eager to be in a relationship with a Shar Worshipper and an Undead. There could definitely be more tension here. It wouldnt be the first time Tav has to try to help everyone get along.

But

I do like the idea of Halsin slowly learning to see their humanity, through the eyes of Tav, as they travel together. He starts to see them as people, the way Tav sees them, beyond just what they are. He starts to see *who* they are, particularly with Astarion as druids generally do not like undead. Shart would be harder to do, but since she wasnt even alive when the curse came into effect, I feel like Halsin could theoreticaly work on it.

If they want to make it work (at least for the player who actually plays the game, not the Tav), they need to add some lines explaining why he can accept Astarion and/or SH. But, if we want him to see the humanity in everyone, we would need to see the ultimatum towards Minthara being removed. RIght now, he is kinda picky about who he accepts and who not.
Undead? Fine.
Shar worshipper? Fine.
Lolth Drow? Fine if it's the Tav, not fine if it's Minthara.

So we need a consistent way how he sees and judges others.

I dont disagree, and I do think its a fair point.

I am able to headcanon it away in Act 1 and 2 as, this is the one real chance hes had in 100+ years to lift the curse from his home, I feel like he would be willing to put up with Astarion and Shart for the chance to save his home.

I haven't seen the dialogue for the ultimatum itself so I don't know the reasons he uses, but to me it makes perfect sense why he'd be firmly against Minthara. The women did actively lead a force that wanted to destroy his home and murder everyone he cares about. He has a very good reason to not want anything to do with her.

It’s pretty bad! She says she only wanted to destroy the Grove because she was under mind control and that if she is kicked out, she will fall under it again (whereas nothing bad would happen to Halsin if he were kicked out). If she just had to leave but nothing bad would happen to her, it would be fine. As it is (which might not be the final version), it makes Halsin look cruel, which doesn’t fit with his character.

I'm in favor of adding the ultimatum for the sake of both saving the Shadowlands and getting rid of Halsin. I'm getting a little bored of the other way I usually rid the game of him.

If they decide to add an ultimatum (which is fine if they need to), then Halsin has to be more strictly on other cases, too.

I still see no way he could sleep with SH if she stays on the Shar path, he hates this goddess and then he just forgets all of that because of sex? Come on, he isn't a teenager.
Also, he sleeps with the Drow twins (we don't know which god they worship) just to tell us about his "youthful misadventures" afterwards. So again, he doesn't like (Lolth) Drows and still he ignores that fact because of sex? Yeah, no.

A guy who could forgive Kagha and who also seems to be forgiving towards Ketheric draws the line on someone who was been under mind control? Sorry, that doesn't make sense.