Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Astarion romance improvements

Yep that was my understanding as well. Its the Ravenloft setting of aDnD 2e I think (which covers Barovia, a place Minsc and Boo have visited and which has a relatively new DnD canon adventure which starts out in Baldurs Gate) and has specific vampire rules regarding a vampire turning someone using their own blood, if the game wasn't referencing those rules it had no need to mention Astarion giving his blood. However he did, he tells you as much if you ask, so he intended more than just making a spawn. A bride (which by the way is a 'role' in those rules and not gender related) is not controlled by the master vampire who turned them, it's complicated and to do with affection/love and wanting a partner rather than some poor shmuck who can be ordered around.

Totally fitted with A Astarion whereas partner abuse does not.
The poor sod who is a recipient of those kisses also doesn't have the red 'controlled' aura at any point - because they aren't controlled - either because still tadpoled or because they are a bride not a spawn (or both) the only way they are controlled is by the animators. There's a document on line with all the details of the bride stuff. I actually downloaded it ages ago for another game. Pretty sure Stephen Rooney was working from it (or at the least knew about it).

Whoever is writing Astarion now is just doing the 'evil vampire lord' trope with no subtlety whatsoever, moralising to the gallery for some unknown reason in a Role Playing Game instead of allowing player agency but only for this one character on this one path - it's very sad.

I think Stephen Rooney took inspiration from the vampire lore you're talking about. D&D in general doesn't have a lot of vampire lore... most of it is from 2e and Ravenloft. I've read the Ravenloft novel "Vampire of the Mists", where a vampire wanted to turn a human lover who was dying. He couldn't get her to drink his blood after he drained her to the brink of death, which meant when she turned, she would be his slave instead of his mate. In the story, this took place in Waterdeep. So it's not like it was a different world. The blood consumption is significant.

I've been thinking this too. Even if it's just fake, (which I don't think it is, we get canon narration that ascended Astarion loves Tav) Astarion was so careful with the way he acted before. He acts lovey-dovey and even lets Tav break up with him until the tadpole is out of play. But now for some reason he's okay with showing his hand and treating Tav poorly? Maybe he feels like he's strong enough now that he doesn't need Tav's protection or that he could take them on in a fight and win. But it seems out of character for him to just show his whole ass like that before he can control Tav when his goal in the end is to have them as his spawn/consort. What's the point? If he wants to act like that it would make more sense for him to wait a while until the netherbrain is dead.

If it's just to show that he can treat Tav however he wants and get away with it, that relies on Tav humoring him and that seems like a big gamble for him that previously he wouldn't have taken. Even if he didn't care about Tav and their feelings anymore, why would he want to alienate an ally to help take out the netherbrain? He can be smooth-brained sometimes, but he's not that smooth-brained and it goes against everything we were previously shown about his behavior.

In Early Access, only Act 1 was available and there was no information suggesting that Astarion would attack the player during the ritual in datamined content. Additionally, it was obvious that there were possible "good" and "evil" endings for all characters, including Astarion.

Yes, this is also why I talked about the bride part of the lore. I am glad more people have read it and are thinking the way I am. This is what the GAME showed us in the romance up to this point, that is why the patch 6 kiss failure, makes absolutely no sense. Thank you AA people who are looking at the story and EXPERIENCED it. It is nice to see that we are seeing Stephen's vision and not the person who took over when he went to a different project. Stephen's vision is more in line with what we saw up to this point. Then patch 6, the story has all kinds of weird changes and doesn't make sense ~ so we want our story back. Not erased.

The misinformation in this thread about early access and Stephen Rooney not writing both of Astarion's paths was pulled straight out of someone's butthole lmao

pour one out for stephen rooney whose vision of toxic discord daddy astarion was thwarted by teenage girls who don't understand that having emotions is not masculine and for the gays only

meanwhile every true ea player knows astarion was originally supposed to be an objectophile but larian changed this to pander to a wider audience. there are still remnants of this in the game though like the old blanket in his tent that was originally his first love. it's really sad to see that they changed this just to appeal to whiney straight women specifically

I understand this theory of yours, but i cant help but thinking this made even less sense on their side, lets say the fear and discomfort that tav has during the kiss is Larian telling the players, hey this is supposed to be the feelings that being his partner would have. then with this awful feelings, why would Tav initiate the kiss for the second time ? they might as well just remove "can i kiss you" for the rest of the game because if you ask for second time you probably pretty much enjoy it I assume ?

or if these horrible looking of Tav kissing scenes happen when Tav asks "what are we?" , and without saying a word, Astarion grabs tav's neck or make her kneel to show his dominative or abusive side implying this is going to be an abusive toxic relationship, that might explain why Tav looks scared i mean at least to me. but so far adding these face with other sweet interaction between him and Tav just really look odd.

Hope you don’t think I am disagreeing with you, I actually pretty admire your unbiased and polite tone when expressing your opinion.

I do not agree with this.
Personally, I doubt that the authors of the game imagine the TAV as an inanimate being. The fact that he is an "empty" character is a deliberate lack, because it is something that must fill the player with his imagination.
As also happens for the DnD board game, it is the player who customizes his character both physically and psychologically. It's not a simple puppet that you move around the map.
In fact, during the game, during the various dialogues, there are multiple response options so that the player can find in one of them the one that is most consistent with the character of his TAV. Not only that: it is the character of the TAV, his way of acting and interacting with others that determines the rest of the story, even that of the other NPCs.
Earlier someone compared BG3 to FFVII. I'm sorry to say it, but it's a comparison that doesn't make much sense 'cause yes, they are two RPG games, but they are based on very different principles.
FFVII, the original one, didn't give you any choice, you couldn't change the story. Cloud is an already pre-built character: he already has his own story, a character decided by the game's authors. The player only has to accompany Cloud and friends in the discovery of this story, until reaching the epilogue.
FFVII don't have an ending that changes based on the choices made previously: the sole purpose of the game is to defeat Sephiroth. There are no alternatives.
BG3, on the other hand, is based on a different philosophy: it is the player who influences the story. Obviously there are things pre-established by the authors, such as the personal history of the companions, but, for the rest, the player is given freedom to create his own story.

Returning then to the theme of the "TAV's terrified face" during the kisses with AAstarion, I fully agree with those who criticize this thing, because it is actually going against the power that the player has over his TAV. Power that the game itself and also the authors have given to the player.
To resolve the issue it would be enough for the TAV to have a neutral expression (which it usually has during the game), so as to satisfy everyone, that is: both those who see the TAV as a victim; and those who want a romantic relationship with AAstarion.

Why are you being so rude? The person is confused or you misunderstood each other. Astarion does attack, if he is not helped or incorrectly dissuaded from the ritual - now.
About objectophile I can't say, I came later in the game. But for myself, I already considered this piece to be Astarion's funerary decoration. Vampires are tied to the place of rest, I thought, carrying the earth from the grave or burial objects they can move around.
I could be wrong.

To the topic of the scared face. I can't agree with everything. The "kiss" option was added for couple wagering and to have a nice conversation with a conversation partner. Those who see TAB as a victim will not press the "can I kiss you?" button multiple times. They'll hit the "we should break up" button or not have an affair with that character at all if that's how they see the outcome of the relationship.
Personally, I think Pacht 6 is a pretty radical innovation.
All in all, Larian has fanned the fire between two fandoms - AA and Spaun A - with this Patch 6 instead of offering a bay leaf.

If you have a more accurate info that says otherwise feel free to link me. I'm open to change my opinion. But right now i'm more inclined to believe it bc after getting the spawn ending the two routes do feel like it's written with two different premises. And I think people have the right to be upset after playing the game with certain assumptions. I can bet there would be an outrage as well if Larian changed spawnstarion to be monogamous.

Also many people sexualized different characters. Take raphael for example, larian cheekily said he's a bottom and bad at sex yet his fans stull want him to be dom daddy. There are more smut of spawnstarion and some people have openly said they wanted to **** astarion in the *** so not sure why its only bad if AA fans sexualize the character? Countless mods to sexualize shadowheart on nexusmods as well. Halsin is objectified as well *shrugs* even tho his "true" fans do not like the sexualization if you read the forum complaints.

On topic, I honestly don't have a strong opinion about tav's face expressions but I just wanted to say I think it's unlikely they'll change it. The chin grab kiss was leaked before with Karlach origin and the face was smiling and now it's not so I guess it's final. Tbh I don't mind AAstarion being evil it's just I do agree changing little things that could break the character is a bad practice. and its not just astarion honestly, I've seen Larian does it to Lae and Gortash and now they're putting new dialogues to spawn astarion reaction to Mizora's cheating. It makes me feel like the game is unfinished and lose faith in Larian if they're still changing dialogues and expressions 8 months after release. I am honesyly more upset that corrupt magistrate astarion is never elaborated. But I don't think they'll change it.

Thank you for saying this, I completely agree I just didn't want to be the first to say it since I was afraid it would be misunderstood. I think you are completely on point with this about them choosing a man on purpose, it was my very first thought. Also thank you for acknowledging that it's so triggering for women, it really is, I'm sure it also is for gay men.

Interview with Stephen Rooney. He mentions they always had a clear idea of where Astarion's story would go and they wrote a "good" and an "evil" ending for the character.

Better to show the character's evil with kisses and evil faces... eh?
No.

I honestly just can't connect a plot like this - ritual abandonment and ascension.
That a corrupt, narcissistic magistrate would become such a Lord - yes, I believe it.
Ritual abandonment, well, only in the romance line.
The rest I find hard to believe.
There was definitely an ending for a good path. But what this ending was planned and how much content was cut (Upper City) to lead to it. A more difficult morally gray quest.
It's weird in general if the player only listened to and studied Minthara and Shedowhart, and Astarion was for opening locks. Yes, the player made approvals, became a friend. And yet for Astarion to give up a ritual for something for someone he's known for less than a month and who's only on SH - no.
In the path of evil, that sounds like a joke. In that case, it is logical for Astarion to leave\attack regardless of the die roll, consequences.
He can't ascend without someone's eyes to help him. Unless you could add a "redraw my scars on a piece of paper" scene because of which there would be consequences. Or let Astarion ask companions who are nearby and the player will be silent.

People who study data mining knew how much was in Astarion's quest. And how much of it went away, including simply because of a lack of time.

What? I just read in one thread that there is no review of AAstarion’s kiss in the discord. I searched to see what was going on there, and many feedbacks disappeared. I myself liked a couple of reviews in a day, and now they are gone. In general, their number has decreased several times. but remained about spawn and game moments. What is it called? There doesn’t even seem to be a message with the survey results!

They recently changed the rules there and hired new moderators, it seems that’s behind this...

They are removing all feedback regarding kissing with AAstarion. They are eliminating them all, even those of those who want TAV to have a scared face. They said that even if they remove the comment, they will read it, but they delete them so as not to clog up the feedback section with the same messages

is that why mine disappeared ? it took me so much courage to sign up there because i didn't want to see negative AA hater..

so what does it mean? we cant write feedback anymore about AA kiss?