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Originally Posted by Netav
Who wrote her mind you sharing? Very curious.

Sadly, don't know the name. I know for a fact here was a change in writer. Plus John constantly posting Shadowheart (aside from Halsin) stuff on Twitter is a good indicator he took over.

Honestly, don't even know who writes Minthara, since Adam Smith does editing work on someone else's work on Minthara. Like a supervisor of sorts.
Plus, given the fact often in interviews he characterizes her "ha-ha awful evil person" - he himself seems to have yet to understand her character like Emma Gregory (her VA) does.


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@autistichalsin
I guess this is the point where I feel like you are either misunderstanding me or you are trying to twist my words (something that you have been accused of before), so it should be in my best interest to not bother really answering you, so I will keep it somewhat short.
You repeatedly try to sneak in accusatory questions designed to push the other person into a defensive position. That's not a style I'm interested in, and it's likely a reason why you've had to mute so many. Surely, they didn't appreciate it either.

1. I never said that a DM has a duty to never let players drive an NPC away, I said that any DM that limits the space of decisions unnecessarily would likely not be a good one.
2. I never said that Halsin has anything against Seldarine drows and even if he is okay with them, that doesn't free him of racism in general, even if he differentiate between their religions. Whether or not the religion they follow is good or evil is not the crucial point.

I know this is part of your personal agenda against Minthara and don't get me wrong, it's okay if you don't like her, that's totally fine. To me personally, I think Halsin's decisions are inauthentic.
Other than that, I think we can agree to disagree, as that is something that you experienced several times now within the fandom (although you claim everything against you isn't true, there is enough proof).

That being said, I accept your opinion, fully knowing this is something you are not really capable of (as you showed more than once).

Originally Posted by AlexZebol
Originally Posted by Icelyn
For me the issue isn’t that the first Act is missing anything from EA (the datamined stuff was never in EA and who knows if it would be good or not) but instead how his romance doesn’t follow the serious nature of his character in EA. Instead they gave him a nonserious meme romance that was seen as a side fling to an origin character romance. The added epilogue content helps, but to me he is still missing the option of a serious romance path for the rest of his romance.

It also feels like a joke if you play origin Karlach and romance him.
He doesn't go to Avernus with her, but promises to look for anything that could help her with her engine. What happens in epilogue? He was chilling with kids the whole time and couldn't be bothered. John did really ruin his character with his bloody rewrites, turning otherwise (in EA) serious and mature character into a horny freak. And that Drow dialogue in Act 3? Completely out of the blue and doesn't lead nowhere. Johnny boy ruined Beast in D:OS2, mischaracterized Shadowheart in Act 3 and did that to Halsin - how he is still allowed to do this is beyond me.

What does "muh irredeemable evil" Minthara do in the meantime? She bloody weeps and begs Karlach not to waste her life like that, if she decides to stay in Faerun and die. Otherwise, despite her supposed ambition for power, she volunteers to venture to Avernus to kick Zariel's butt with or without Karlach, risking her life for someone she truly loves. Curious isn't it? (I honestly refuse to categorize her as "evil". Much like BG2's Viconia she has all the chances to switch alignment to lawful neutral given the proper choices and companion quest)

The Karlach ending is so bad and I really felt embarassed and shocked when Halsin was happy at the epilogue and didn't even care about her or finding a solution for a single moment. Even when dating the Tav, Halsin sometimes comes off as a selfish creep, but the Karlach ending is just plain bad and makes me question his love for Karlach.
I refrain from blaming John just because we were asked to do so, so I end this statement here.

Last edited by Filia; 04/03/24 08:50 PM.

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I just wanna pop in here and humbly ask real quick, please tread carefully when bringing up anything or any discussions by users on other platforms. It may end up going way off topic. I don't want the mods called and have the thread locked.

I'm having a lot of fun talking about this with most of you guys.

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Originally Posted by AlexZebol
Originally Posted by Netav
Who wrote her mind you sharing? Very curious.

Sadly, don't know the name. I know for a fact here was a change in writer. Plus John constantly posting Shadowheart (aside from Halsin) stuff on Twitter is a good indicator he took over.

Honestly, don't even know who writes Minthara, since Adam Smith does editing work on someone else's work on Minthara. Like a supervisor of sorts.
Plus, given the fact often in interviews he characterizes her "ha-ha awful evil person" - he himself seems to have yet to understand her character like Emma Gregory (her VA) does.
Check dm on forum please if you can.

Last edited by Netav; 04/03/24 09:09 PM.
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I don't really buy that somebody else wrote Shadowheart at any point in development.
I've not seen evidence of it at least while I've seen other writers on Twitter congratulate John on writing Shadowheart and I've seen Jennifer English reference him in multiple interviews.

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Originally Posted by AlexZebol
Originally Posted by Netav
Who wrote her mind you sharing? Very curious.

Sadly, don't know the name. I know for a fact here was a change in writer. Plus John constantly posting Shadowheart (aside from Halsin) stuff on Twitter is a good indicator he took over.

Honestly, don't even know who writes Minthara, since Adam Smith does editing work on someone else's work on Minthara. Like a supervisor of sorts.
Plus, given the fact often in interviews he characterizes her "ha-ha awful evil person" - he himself seems to have yet to understand her character like Emma Gregory (her VA) does.

I was completely confused why Shadowheart felt so... odd once I hit act 3 in the game. I love her in act 1 and 2, but act 3 is so damn weird with her I don't know what to think. Mind sharing how do you know that she was written by someone else at first? Even via DM.

Last edited by ValkyrieN7; 04/03/24 11:10 PM.

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Originally Posted by Netav
Originally Posted by AlexZebol
Originally Posted by Netav
Who wrote her mind you sharing? Very curious.

Sadly, don't know the name. I know for a fact here was a change in writer. Plus John constantly posting Shadowheart (aside from Halsin) stuff on Twitter is a good indicator he took over.

Honestly, don't even know who writes Minthara, since Adam Smith does editing work on someone else's work on Minthara. Like a supervisor of sorts.
Plus, given the fact often in interviews he characterizes her "ha-ha awful evil person" - he himself seems to have yet to understand her character like Emma Gregory (her VA) does.
Check dm on forum please if you can.
Originally Posted by Netav
Originally Posted by AlexZebol
Originally Posted by Netav
Who wrote her mind you sharing? Very curious.

Sadly, don't know the name. I know for a fact here was a change in writer. Plus John constantly posting Shadowheart (aside from Halsin) stuff on Twitter is a good indicator he took over.

Honestly, don't even know who writes Minthara, since Adam Smith does editing work on someone else's work on Minthara. Like a supervisor of sorts.
Plus, given the fact often in interviews he characterizes her "ha-ha awful evil person" - he himself seems to have yet to understand her character like Emma Gregory (her VA) does.
Check dm on forum please if you can.
I started to investigate, and I found this in a tweet written by John. I'll copy and paste it: 'The talks by the stool are a creation of Chris Schalk, the main scriptwriter for Shadowheart. I wrote the lines, but he did all the hard work.' It's weird, right? This might explain why there are so many inconsistencies, incoherencies, and nonsense in Shadowheart. I don't know; I haven't seen the talks by the stool. What does Shadowheart say in those talks?

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I honestly hope Shadowheart was mostly written by someone else. It makes more sense that way when she acts like a parody from a certain site in some situations in Act 3.

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Okay, folks. It’s of course fine to critique the *writing* in the game, but let’s not allow that to devolve into personal attacks on or harassment of individual *writers*.

No more, please. Of all places, Larian’s own official forums are not an appropriate place to abuse their employees, and it does this community no favours to make these forums an unsafe space for Larian’s devs to read.


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Originally Posted by The Red Queen
Okay, folks. It’s of course fine to critique the *writing* in the game, but let’s not allow that to devolve into personal attacks on or harassment of individual *writers*.

No more, please. Of all places, Larian’s own official forums are not an appropriate place to abuse their employees, and it does this community no favours to make these forums an unsafe space for Larian’s devs to read.

Sure thing, haven't seen the previous request, so my apologies. I'll refrain from mentioning the writers themselves from now on.

Don't have any sort of personal beef with them or aim to harass anyone (more or less seem like decent individuals, don't know them personally), merely question the direction some of the characters were taken and quality of said writing.


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Yeah, Imma just stick to dunking on Halsin all day.

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Originally Posted by Filia
@autistichalsin
I guess this is the point where I feel like you are either misunderstanding me or you are trying to twist my words (something that you have been accused of before), so it should be in my best interest to not bother really answering you, so I will keep it somewhat short.
You repeatedly try to sneak in accusatory questions designed to push the other person into a defensive position. That's not a style I'm interested in, and it's likely a reason why you've had to mute so many. Surely, they didn't appreciate it either.

1. I never said that a DM has a duty to never let players drive an NPC away, I said that any DM that limits the space of decisions unnecessarily would likely not be a good one.
2. I never said that Halsin has anything against Seldarine drows and even if he is okay with them, that doesn't free him of racism in general, even if he differentiate between their religions. Whether or not the religion they follow is good or evil is not the crucial point.

I know this is part of your personal agenda against Minthara and don't get me wrong, it's okay if you don't like her, that's totally fine. To me personally, I think Halsin's decisions are inauthentic.
Other than that, I think we can agree to disagree, as that is something that you experienced several times now within the fandom (although you claim everything against you isn't true, there is enough proof).

That being said, I accept your opinion, fully knowing this is something you are not really capable of (as you showed more than once).

Originally Posted by AlexZebol
Originally Posted by Icelyn
For me the issue isn’t that the first Act is missing anything from EA (the datamined stuff was never in EA and who knows if it would be good or not) but instead how his romance doesn’t follow the serious nature of his character in EA. Instead they gave him a nonserious meme romance that was seen as a side fling to an origin character romance. The added epilogue content helps, but to me he is still missing the option of a serious romance path for the rest of his romance.

It also feels like a joke if you play origin Karlach and romance him.
He doesn't go to Avernus with her, but promises to look for anything that could help her with her engine. What happens in epilogue? He was chilling with kids the whole time and couldn't be bothered. John did really ruin his character with his bloody rewrites, turning otherwise (in EA) serious and mature character into a horny freak. And that Drow dialogue in Act 3? Completely out of the blue and doesn't lead nowhere. Johnny boy ruined Beast in D:OS2, mischaracterized Shadowheart in Act 3 and did that to Halsin - how he is still allowed to do this is beyond me.

What does "muh irredeemable evil" Minthara do in the meantime? She bloody weeps and begs Karlach not to waste her life like that, if she decides to stay in Faerun and die. Otherwise, despite her supposed ambition for power, she volunteers to venture to Avernus to kick Zariel's butt with or without Karlach, risking her life for someone she truly loves. Curious isn't it? (I honestly refuse to categorize her as "evil". Much like BG2's Viconia she has all the chances to switch alignment to lawful neutral given the proper choices and companion quest)

The Karlach ending is so bad and I really felt embarassed and shocked when Halsin was happy at the epilogue and didn't even care about her or finding a solution for a single moment. Even when dating the Tav, Halsin sometimes comes off as a selfish creep, but the Karlach ending is just plain bad and makes me question his love for Karlach.
I refrain from blaming John just because we were asked to do so, so I end this statement here.

While I don't dislike the orphan ending, I also kind of wish there was an ending where Halsin and his LI, along with SH and Gale, adventure forth to help find solutions for Karlach and Astarion.

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Originally Posted by AlexZebol
Originally Posted by The Red Queen
Okay, folks. It’s of course fine to critique the *writing* in the game, but let’s not allow that to devolve into personal attacks on or harassment of individual *writers*.

No more, please. Of all places, Larian’s own official forums are not an appropriate place to abuse their employees, and it does this community no favours to make these forums an unsafe space for Larian’s devs to read.

Sure thing, haven't seen the previous request, so my apologies. I'll refrain from mentioning the writers themselves from now on.

Don't have any sort of personal beef with them or aim to harass anyone (more or less seem like decent individuals, don't know them personally), merely question the direction some of the characters were taken and quality of said writing.
Same thing, I simply read what they were talking about and remembered a tweet I had read in relation to that and I simply gave my opinion, I haven't harassed anyone online (I'm seriously not interested in doing that), but well, that's it.

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Originally Posted by AmayaTenjo
While I don't dislike the orphan ending, I also kind of wish there was an ending where Halsin and his LI, along with SH and Gale, adventure forth to help find solutions for Karlach and Astarion.

I like the idea, it could also make up for a nice DLC or additional content. If they add such an ending, they would need to also give a conclusion to it, because otherwise it would feel unfulfilling to have an open end, if you know what I mean.


If you want to answer to any of my posts with just hate, please just don't answer at all.

If you want just to white knight everything and can't accept opinions, please don't even answer me.

Thank you!
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Originally Posted by Filia
Originally Posted by AmayaTenjo
While I don't dislike the orphan ending, I also kind of wish there was an ending where Halsin and his LI, along with SH and Gale, adventure forth to help find solutions for Karlach and Astarion.

I like the idea, it could also make up for a nice DLC or additional content. If they add such an ending, they would need to also give a conclusion to it, because otherwise it would feel unfulfilling to have an open end, if you know what I mean.

I mean Im fine with the current ending, this would just be ideal.

What I really want is Act 1 and Act 2 Halsin back.

Last edited by AmayaTenjo; 05/03/24 02:26 PM.
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Originally Posted by AmayaTenjo
Originally Posted by Filia
Originally Posted by AmayaTenjo
While I don't dislike the orphan ending, I also kind of wish there was an ending where Halsin and his LI, along with SH and Gale, adventure forth to help find solutions for Karlach and Astarion.

I like the idea, it could also make up for a nice DLC or additional content. If they add such an ending, they would need to also give a conclusion to it, because otherwise it would feel unfulfilling to have an open end, if you know what I mean.

I mean Im fine with the current ending, this would just be ideal.

What I really want is Act 1 and Act 2 Halsin back.

+1
As I said, I feel betrayed, I was expecting a sweet romance with the druid I got to know in EA as well as Act 1 and Act 2 and not what I eventually got frown


If you want to answer to any of my posts with just hate, please just don't answer at all.

If you want just to white knight everything and can't accept opinions, please don't even answer me.

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Originally Posted by Filia
Originally Posted by AmayaTenjo
While I don't dislike the orphan ending, I also kind of wish there was an ending where Halsin and his LI, along with SH and Gale, adventure forth to help find solutions for Karlach and Astarion.

I like the idea, it could also make up for a nice DLC or additional content. If they add such an ending, they would need to also give a conclusion to it, because otherwise it would feel unfulfilling to have an open end, if you know what I mean.

If you romance Astarion, looking for a cure with him is one of the possible endings. By the time of the party you haven't found one, but have been happily adventuring through the world. I felt that was a nice open ending because it implies that the cure was not so important after all and you found joy in what you did anyway. With Karlach it might be a bit different but Astarion doesn't have to sit around and wait for others to help him, he could simply adventure along.

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No idea why, but I knew it, the reasons/facts (often repeated) don't count, why it would be a take away and against his character. It's just a constant repetition... lol

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Originally Posted by Anska
Originally Posted by Filia
Originally Posted by AmayaTenjo
While I don't dislike the orphan ending, I also kind of wish there was an ending where Halsin and his LI, along with SH and Gale, adventure forth to help find solutions for Karlach and Astarion.

I like the idea, it could also make up for a nice DLC or additional content. If they add such an ending, they would need to also give a conclusion to it, because otherwise it would feel unfulfilling to have an open end, if you know what I mean.

If you romance Astarion, looking for a cure with him is one of the possible endings. By the time of the party you haven't found one, but have been happily adventuring through the world. I felt that was a nice open ending because it implies that the cure was not so important after all and you found joy in what you did anyway. With Karlach it might be a bit different but Astarion doesn't have to sit around and wait for others to help him, he could simply adventure along.

That's a good point, Astarion can still find joy, but for Karlach, afaik, she never wanted to go back to Avernus, so she will most likely not feel joy or anything positive.


If you want to answer to any of my posts with just hate, please just don't answer at all.

If you want just to white knight everything and can't accept opinions, please don't even answer me.

Thank you!
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May I ask when they changed Astarion from looking for a way to walk in the sun to finding a cure for vampirism? Can you even link a video or post a picture of the dialogue? Please?


#JusticeForAstarion #JusticeForTheRealFansOfTheRomanceWithAstarion
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