Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Astarion romance improvements

I'll just requote this, because it's funny that it happened so soon after you said it. Maybe we should should start making guesses who's turn is next.


I agree with everything.


I'd love to have it all added.


Haha, nice one!

It is important to note re: Minthara that this is apparently not new: It was there since the beginning but broken, so it's not a change, or an intended one at least, since I guess you could argue that they could've just let it stay broken. This of course doesn't need to change how people feel about her characterisation in that scene or how people feel about the fandom's reactions to it since it can seem hypocritical or, in my opinion, a bit dramatic. But since it was part of the shipped product (but broken) I wouldn't call it part of the Ship of Theseus criticisms Larian has been facing.

Of all the things that are currently broken when it comes to Minthara, they chose to bring these lines to light. It's quite telling.

Sigh, I miss the happy days of patch 5.

Let's just stick to Astarion theme here. It is Larian that flipped the switch on players that had everything better before Patch 6. I can understand the anger but I am not going to let it derail that this forum is about Astarion romance improvements. So, let us be respectful. Put an "F" in the chat for our fellow gamers and let us continue on with our Astarion romance improvements topic as that is the reason for this particular forum.

Thinking about the romance with Ascended Astarion has made me realise how fragile it is, like balancing on a rope wire. The way his romance was in Patch 5 was really close to perfect, and I think a lot of it was the softness and tenderness in the kiss animation vs the domination in his dialog. I do wonder now if the new improved kisses even with a new face on Tav will have the romance in an slight unbalanced state, that he might need some other dialog or similar to prove to the player that he still care for them. An easy balance would perhaps be to keep the old kiss in with the new kisses.

I was a new player coming in to patch 5 and experiencing the AA romance blind, and I think the old kiss was really important for confirming that "yes, Astarion still care for Tav" when I think back on it now.

This is something I complained about in the OP and decided to create a picture story to point out the inconsistencies in the narrative and how the roleplay options are lacking in the evening after ascension scene:

Hi folks, I've mentioned more than once in the past few days with respect to Astarion topics that we should avoid repetitive posting. I'm getting tempted to lock a number of similar threads that are attracting this, to focus the discussion about Ascended Astarion's path in one place and reduce the risk of duplication and spamming other forum members who don't share an interest in this topic.

If you don't want that to happen, please choose the most relevant thread for your post and put it there.

Thanks!

The argument of whether Astarion is happier as a spawn or as the Vampire Ascendant is something that could de-rail this thread, so be careful. Acting like AA is his happiest version is going to bring that kind of argument. I believe he's happier when he stays a spawn, but I am still here to argue for AA fans because I can see the appeal of an evil character being on the same page as AA which means they are in harmony and AA treats them well. He treats them well all the way through the epilogue and the epilogue party. The only thing that changes this is the patch 6 kisses, which were an insult to AA fans. I don't understand why Larian wanted to disappoint both AA and spawn fans by giving one group some kisses that don't align with their romance with AA, and the other fan group was given a re-used kiss from the graveyard scene and nothing else.

I don't see anyone making this argument atm. If you mean my picture, I merely presented how I roleplayed, showing that Tav was concerned about his wellbeing throughout the whole game and that Astarion also saw it this way (I used multiple options Tav could pick in descriptions like "I just want you to be happy", but now, as Veranis nicely said once, the dialogue options in that situation resort to "Psyche! She doesn't care about him at all". It is in tune with patch 6 where someone decided for us what our character thinks and how they should behave, while it was possible to roleplay a certain way before.

Sorry it's not your picture. I must be careless with where I hit the reply button. It might not even be from this thread.

Anyway. I'd like to think both Astarion's are happy! Now we just need our characters to be able to be happy. And an evil character who wants the security AA can provide along with his obsessive dialogue about how you complete him and his power would be nothing without you... I don't think it's something Larian should step on with outright unprovoked abuse. I also think the wholesome aspect of spawn Astarion's romance shouldn't be neglected. Spawn Astarion fans are owed some kisses. Maybe in the meantime they can give the kiss animations from Gale to spawn Astarion for now?? Then fix AA kisses. Then everyone happy.

“Everything, including lies, serves the truth. Shadows do not extinguish the sun.”

You can read more about it here. https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=938937#Post938937

This thread is read-only, just so you can familiarize yourself, I really ask you, those who want to familiarize themselves, not to discuss what you read in this thread, just in case.

Yeah... I'm sorry about that.... sometimes I "speak" before thinking. I have a habit of saying what's on my mind and it has had me kicked out of forums before. I am trying to behave here though. Really sorry about your thread, I didn't mean to get it locked

Someone made a great point from that locked thread.

The game originally was going to make you stick to romancing the one partner you chose at the tiefling/goblin party. To quote an author: "This locked fans into dating the same character simply due to a few choices made toward the start of the game. As a fan before coming to work at Larian, though, Author wished players could experience love triangles and multiple partners." The freedom to do this sounds great except that left people who are loyal to Astarion with a lack of content. You're rewarded for romancing Shadowheart and Astarion at the same time up until the choice in act 2, because you get some cool romantic dialogue from Astarion when he reacts to you breaking up with Shadowheart, which you miss out on if you're loyal.

There is no reward for being loyal to your romance in BG3, which is a shame. Is this off topic? Not really, I think Shadowheart said it best, that Astarion is fragile when it comes to love. I think out of all the companions he is the least secure and needs the most reaffirmation of love from his partner. It's due to this insecurity that makes AA so keen on turning his lover ASAP so he can be sure they'll never leave him. Being loyal to Astarion should have positive effects down the road for both spawn Astarion and AA. Perhaps it allows for AA to be less controlling and allows spawn Astarion to seem more confident about your relationship in the epilogue.

I fully support to improve Spawn Astarion and make this route better! And I fully support to get a reward / a cutscene, if you stay loyal to your partner.

But I don't need a change of AA to be less controlling as he is now, the new Epilogue is great (except that there could be a kiss - consensual of course). For me it's a nice and almost balanced story, and people were free to roleplay and have their own fantasy (bride or spawn). Also his dark side is very balanced in my opinion, he treats his consort quite well. (beside of patch 6 kisses Tav) I like AA to stay as he is, I don't need him less evil.

I would agree to improve the old Epilogue with AA, but they already did this with the bed scene, and that's a nice one! I do really like the improvement. But I'd kindly ask for happy faces for everyone here. In the bedscene Tav smiles and is happy, and when Tav is out of the bed, he suddenly has a really sad face. Ahem. I guess, just a little bug. Please change it to a happy or a neutral face, before Tav's first answer. Before and after, everything is right.

Agreed. He should have a unique kiss after killing Cazador. Right now, if you're romancing AA then you also get all spawn kisses (until a certain moment that is).


I'll give another example: Halsin asking you out. Astarion being so fragile (which is also mentioned by Minthara), how he reacts to the proposition, and how terrible it is in relation to Astarion's story and his issues makes the Halsin interaction completely disgusting and I wish we could tell him (as I said in the OP) that we only care about him and just wanted to gossip with him. That moment in particular needs extra content for affirming your devotion, seeing how he was internally agonising over Halsin having the hots for Tav, ogling them and waiting for the "right" moment to insert himself into the equation.

It would be cool if he had a reaction to you turning down Mizora's offer too.


It's intentional, Tav had a neutral, even rather positive face in that moment in patch 5.

It's okay, it's absolutely not your fault. It would have happened anyway. Don't worry about it.


"When you love, you don't want to drink any other water than that which you find in the beloved spring. Fidelity in such a case is a natural thing." Stendhal. It would be very desirable that the game story also takes into account the real feelings of living people, and not just the idea of "free relationships" and the calculation of commercial success due to the possibility of "trying all of them in one playthrough".

You correctly noted that Astarion is fragile when it comes to love. This is especially important to him. If the Tavs could make him feel how unique, important, and valuable he is to them, it might affect his attitude and his ability to trust the Tavs more anyway. At this point, the game still can't force us to cheat on a lover (god, I hope it stays that way and we don't get forced sex with a bear, crocodile, or some other ram in the next patch), but fidelity is completely disregarded. Although it's an important aspect of a couple's relationship that can't help but affect the mutual intimacy, self-perception and confidence of the partners in the relationship.


Yes, so that you could say something to Astarion along the lines of, "This druid seems to have fallen from the trees too often in bear form... But don't worry, my love, Orin will give him a little therapy soon." Basically, something humorously ironic, or indignantly serious to cheer Astarion up rather than add to his worries. And, of course, a similar response for Halsin himself, because right now I can only refuse him without explanation. Maybe if players could refuse Halsin verbally as they would like, they'd be less likely to want to kill him and his entire grove in the second playthrough? That would smooth out the impression of his brazen solicitation somewhat.


I second the suggestion of changing Tav's facial expressions! I really liked the scene on the bed, the way Astarion looks at Tav, and the way they hold hands at the end of the epilogue. <3 I had a happy face at that moment, during that whole scene. Please fix this little intentional mistake with my Tav's facial expression so it fits the situation as well!

You can tell him you don't want to jeopardise your relationship with Astarion but first you need to tell Halsin you are somewhat interested. If you don't turn him down and want to hear what Astarion has to say about the whole thing (either you want to go for it and want his approval or just want to gossip with Astarion and maybe even make fun of Halsin together) you're locked into the romance scene with the druid (and can only refuse him while you're already on the date). Then, no matter what happens, the game always assumes you actually did have sex, and can chat how awesome it was and you're flagged as being in a romance with him and have to break up. Astarion has nothing to say whether you've slept with Halsin or not. It's preposterous.

I fail at this point. The only line we can use to say that we are already in a relationship with someone makes it sound as if, despite this, we are kind of okay with it. During the walkthrough it felt as if the game was telling me that "any normal woman, no matter how much she loves her chosen one, would still be okay with "making out with a bear", and if she does, it's because she just doesn't like bears, but likes illithids, succubi or something like that, and if you don't need anyone but your lover and you resent such molestations, then you are obviously in the minority, and it's just a waste of time to write lines for people like you.

I decided once that I would do a "test", reboot, wash my hands afterward, and Astarion would forgive me, but I broke down at the "if you don't turn him down" point. That's what saved me from this preposterousness you described.

Friends! There was a great article that came out that brought attention to our problem!

I think many of you will find it interesting (there is a link to our thread, and including your posts!). I suggest not discussing this article here, so as not to stray from the topic of the thread. Anyone wishing to discuss this article is welcome to do so here (This is the Ascended Astarion thread, just for communication on any topics related to him).

Hotfix #22 came out, but unfortunately our problem hasn't been addressed yet.

Let's hope for the next hotfix.