@EMC_V: Have you completed the romance in Patch 5, just prior to Patch 6? Or after patch 6?
Before. I made a save before the ascendant ritual so I could play both paths without having to start from the beginning. I'm lazy like that hahaha And that is why I said that Acts 1 and 2 are the same arc for both romance paths. Up until the point that you ascend or do not ascend Astarion, the scenes are the same and regardless you talking about helping people or being more power-hungry, you are allowed to pick both paths anyway.
His story is now wobbling in a sinkhole that is about to collapse. It doesn't even feel like Astarion anymore, and this is just my opinion.
Fair enough. To me, Act 1 and 2 work (more or less). The romance and the character would benefit from more interactions like Shadowheart has. Just in Act 1, Shadowheart is allowed a full Shar's temple, plus a fight with Laezel, plus you have a dialog option to "connect" with her in case you "missed it". And so on. Act 2 makes her personal quest part of the main quest. And after that, when her arc should have been finished, she also has another quest in Act 3 so she can have closure. Plus you can ask her what she likes (you can't do that with Astarion), then gift her the flower. Well, you should be able to ask Astarion (or other characters about what they like. Sure, with Laezel you ask about gith things and that is similar. But with Astarion, just a little about Cazador and his past. If you were able to ask what he likes and latter gift him something (like the painting or clothes), that would add to the feeling of closeness and things not being only about Cazador and Tav/DU. And if after Cazador, Astarion had another personal quest that allow him to get closure or settle more into his new path (ascended or spawn), that would make the romance or character arc work better. But that is my opinion.
I can enjoy either path with the extreme changes from the creator of his story to whatever it is right now. It is very frustrating that they made him into two completely different beings and it makes no sense.
I agree. Some personality traits should be common to both paths. Astarion enjoys fun, he has humor sense, he has style and I can see him caring about his looks and clothes in both paths. He is a hedonist in both paths. So him enjoying drinking your blood or sex and nice and expensive things should remain in both paths. He caring/loving Tav/DU should also remain, even if the way he shows it changes. Note: I strongly believe that Astarion should have the golden pantaloons. XD We should be able to gift them to him to wear at camp.
https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Golden_PantaloonsMeph's ritual had the potential to create a new monster and states the pact is fulfilled, with no other requirements, which is what it says in the game.
They don't really offer much details about the pact. Raphael (someone a Tav or DU with high Int and Wis shouldn't trust) tells you about sacrificing souls to be able to walk in the sun and get rid of the vampire limitations (except drinking blood, I guess). But he doesn't tell you if there is other consequences. Raphael might be vomiting information. And when you explore Cazador's room and dungeon, there is mention of the ritual, but doesn't offer details. Considering Wyll's pact, who knows if "completing the ritual" comes with extras? You complete the ritual and Astarion ascends, of that changes his nature and that means extras, we don't really know. And that is ok. Even if the pact is finished, the act itself would affect both Tav and Astarion, since being willing to sacrifice 7000 souls leads them into an evil path that would also affect future choices. To me, not knowing works.
But they reverted him to a true vampire that walks in the sun with cycles of abuse.
I agree that it is a problem. Evil ShadowHeart doesn't become abusive even if Viconia, her example, was. Astarion could be a true vampire that loves his partner and is perfectly nice, educated and caring with them. In fact, a good way to show "evil ascended Astarion" that cares for Tav would be if he killed a child or someone good for a minor offense to Tav/DU. Or in order to gift something that the murder victim had. In seeing the murder or discovering it, they can allow Tav/DU to react horrified or pleased. That way you get: not abusive to Tav, but still evil and monstrous. Hell, even a combination of paladin Tav with Ascended Astarion might work if in AA mins he is the one doing the dirty work so Paladin Tav could continue living happily (and ignorant) not having to face "thought choices".
Spawn feels like (TO ME ONLY NOW, I am not speaking for anyone but myself) that I am his controller or master. I'm not too fond of that option either.
To me, that is because lack of choices/options. Excluding drinking the drow blood, Tav/DU is not allowed to ask "What do you like? What do you want?". The scene in the graveyard works because he is the one saying he wants to bury his old self and a new life. And he is the one asking for sex. He wants that but respect of Tav says no. The problem is that at the end, he asks what Tav wants, but Tav can't ask him back so if feels more like a common decision. And he doesn't have more interactions or a closure quest like Shadowheart. He is not shown doing things on his own initiative.
I want him to be able to be free and allow him to not mask his feelings or just turn into an abuser when it wasn't in the in-game story. At least not the many campaigns I played, at least.
I don't want an abusive Ascended Astarion either. What decides if Astarion is abusive or not is consent and boundaries. AA respected (I don't know if he still does) if Tav doesn't want to be a Spawn. The problem is that if Tav chooses to turn, Astarion turns Tav into a Spawn instead of the vampire bride that you mentioned in another tread. And if you say no/disobey, Larian has chosen to not respect that. Here what I would question Larian is, why they decided to do that with Astarion but not Minthara or Shadowheart? Because it would feel wrong for them. So then, they should treat Astarion the same and not make him abusive. Also, another question I ask myself, why you can dominate Minthara or Laezel in sex but not Ascended Astarion? Both Minthara, Laezel and Astarion seem to have dominant kink (note: consensual domination is not abusive), but only the woman can be turned to submissive and be dominated. Why?
I do like some of your suggestions though. They would show the spawn path as more of the Neutral evil of DnD character that didn't have to hide everything and gets to be working through stuff, but still be himself in I want a pretty new XYZ. He still has to go out and eat if you forget to feed him as I see many do in their playthroughs.
I think Spawn Astarion would work better as chaotic neutral. I mean, he likes the owlbear cub, sometimes he approves of being nice. He likes teasing gale (why don't we have a relationship/friendship arc between the two?) and is more playful than evil. Sure, he is selfish, but he shows empathy for the other spawns and people he likes. Not the people he dislikes, obviously. XD Liking expensive things is not evil.
Allow the Spawn variant to be himself, get into mischief & chaos & do the witty little things he has always done. Yes, he still needs time to heal in BOTH paths, neither will be fixed in a day or whatever. That also bothers me, that he changes instantly. Uh..... I am not asking for reality because it is a game, but a little more realistic wouldn't be out of touch.
Or they could give him another quest for closure like Shadowheart has. That would be the upper city DLC with Astarion finding his way after Cazador, getting a hold on the city or getting to erase Cazador while deciding if he want to be an adventurer, look for other ways to stand in the sun or helping the spawns. It could even be related. Then add a heart for Karlach and a friendship arc with KArlach+Wyll and Gale+Astarion and there you go. Also, fix the relationship if Halsin is involved so it makes more sense. After all, both Halsin and Astarion have been slaves and can help each other to heal.
As far as the dominance, I don't think it needed to go into abuse. I am not trying to sound like a broken record, but instead, let him have something that is an "Us" thing than an "I am going to make you wish you were never born again". Once again, real-world vs realistic vs fantasy. A dark romance is not that hard. There are a lot of lines that were drawn in the sand that were crossed and BOUNDARIES crossed that shouldn't be there, in my opinion.
Consensual dominance is not abuse. Of course, boundaries should be discussed and respected. So that is an scene/conversation missing for that path (also Tav faces). Astarion should say what he wants from Tav and Tav should be allowed to answer back and set boundaries. That would fix a lot. I'm not into D-S, but I'm all for allowing choice for people.
But some fun things to do, I am for those types of things where his personality shines through instead......I am ALL for that for both paths. He didn't turn into an unfeeling beast. He still has them, but let's get the balance back for both paths. So everyone can enjoy. I am trying to look at this from all parts of Astarion with and without Tav/DUrge. He acts completely different with Spawn version vs Ascended vs Spawn Romanced vs Ascended Romanced vs left alone with Cazador in the world vs Origin. Most of the versions stick closer to his personality & character, as well as in his DnD alignment. But what they have done to the romance portion is just one note on one side versus one side changing completely and both being out of character in many ways. I am trying to keep this neutral, to spark conversation rather than attack and problems. I would rather have healthy real conversations without fighting and discuss our favorite character without the negative issues that come with the discourse. I want to discuss things among adults as opposed to my choice is the only way, blah blah blah. That hasn't worked so far.
I also enjoy conversation. And I think that many of the problems can be fixed by allowing more character options and adding interactions like the ones allowed for Shadowheart. I mean, when Astarion says that he knows you enjoyed the bite, I would have liked to be able to say something like "I liked you, not the bite". But we only have, "yes I liked it", "lady never tells" (which is the same as I liked it) or "it hurts". And when he is having fun teasing you with the "sweet picking lines", I wish you were able to tease him back by saying even more cheesy and absurd lines. The scene works regardless, but still. I'm all for letting Astarion have fun and for having players be able to interact more. Let's hope that at some time they use some of the feedback to fix things and instead of adding even more content to Shadowheart, they finish the incomplete (Halsin and Minthara) and flesh out the others (Astarion and Wyll).
