I am not purposefully dense, but what do you mean by "skip it" option? That it does not feel like the climax of the scene?
I would be really sad if the scene was changed in any way because as far as romances go, I do like this one very much. The kiss is sweet and tentative a first step to that perfect evening in Waterdeep (unless you feel especially bossy and deny Gale the chance to wow you a bit) which, I feel, serves as the heart of the whole scene and offers a much better payoff to the budding romance than any kiss ever could.
Also I wonder for which if any of the romances the statement made in the quote applies at all? Shadowheart maybe, Wyll perhaps and Karlach? The first kiss in Astarion's case is a fake that is more funny than anything, while the payoff, the quote mentions, to me would be holding his hand in act 2 (or the hug).
Look, I'll just give you a link to Neil Newbon's stream and you'll see what I'm talking about ))
Literally. This is an emergency way out of an uncomfortable dialogue )) It seems to me that this is not very correct, it could have been done differently.
Yes, I did understand that you can use the option because you are just fooling around or have deliberate malicious intent. It can also be a way for a character with good intentions, genuine interest but muddled feelings to avoid being dishonest. It feels like a very natural thing to do in this situation. For example I had the scene with Astarion-Origin, so it was nice not having to drop the l-word or to talk about feelings too much. Feelings are hard after all.
I guess, I am simply not the "most people" the quote talks about, because I am quite glad that there isn't such a huge focus on that kiss and the scene is mainly carried through it's awesome dialogue and it's very scenic nature - though technically you can argue that the first kiss can be the one you imagine during the Weave lesson in act 1 too.
Anyway, basically I am glad that not all the romances follow a standard pattern because this means there is something for everyone. (Or for most people, I guess, that one thread in general reads like there are some players who rather wouldn't have any romance at all.)
Yes, that's exactly what I'm talking about. It’s great when in a dialogue (in a very personal dialogue) there is an option not to reveal your feelings, but! If you are not sincere or have no feelings, why respond with a kiss? Just for fun? Especially at the very beginning of a relationship.
I think this is completely unfair to Gale, and not to the player. Because the player responds with deception to Gale's sincerity. And the game encourages this. It would be great if the game made us treat our companions more responsibly.
It seems to me that this “first kiss” would have been very important for Gale, and I don’t understand why it wasn’t made into a separate scene. Before that night under the stars.
Because it's a roleplaying game and you can play a murder hobo or an ass, if you like. I don't mind that there are options for being a horrible person, I do mind if I am forced to be a horrible person (like with the old brothel dialogue for Gale, which just offered no good way out). For characters who are sincere but think that feelings are oh so hard to put into words, it is nice there is a second chance for a declaration of love at a later stage though.
In the greater context, there is also the idea that your character might feel the need to go along with the romance because it keeps Gale from having suicidal thoughts - the morning after dialogue acknowledges this option too. Many of these ideas are probably not the most romantic and I agree with you that the whole night (not just the kiss) is very important to Gale, but - for me at least - one of the great strengths of Gale's quest that it works really well as a narrative which allows the player to portray a wide range of characters and positions towards Gale and his situation. So being given the option to be open and honest or take a none verbal approach seems like good story telling. I think it's not a separate scene either because Gale himself needed his declaration to be special and he doesn't even think that creating a magical meadow for you is special enough - it is much more than just a romantic night, it tells you about his flaws as well as his hopes and needs.
It is noticeable though that while you can be extremely cruel or at least very rude to all the male companions and even to Lae'zel, you can hardly even be moderately impolite towards Shart or Karlach. Not that I wish to, but if you compare what you can fling into the direction of the guys and Bae'zel to the dialogue for the two girls, there is a stark difference. When Karlach wakes you up in the middle of the night to tell you that she has the hots for you, there isn't even an option to be someone who is grumpy because they were just woken up for something that could have waited til morning. Which I would consider a very viable reaction in this situation.
This double standard is, what puzzles me and makes me wonder why. Unfortunately I only have very cynical answers to this question and I'd rather not go down that route.
I completely agree with what you are saying. But there are two things that are left out.
1. Content distribution. The relationship with Gale as a partner begins at the end (!) of the second act. This is much further than the middle of the game. While the romances of many characters develop from the middle of the first act. And during all this time, he actually only speaks about his interest twice (!). This takes place at the tiefling party and the dialogue with the "book" (second act). The rest of the time nothing happens to develop the relationship.
2. The illogicality of what is happening. Gale, who is very traditional, as he himself says, “If I had time, I would do everything differently.” During the entire second act he said the only phrase “have you read the book” and.. that’s all! This is not normal for a person who is never shy about saying what he thinks. //Please don't say that he is embarrassed :)// It is logical that after deactivating the sphere his hands were freed. But he doesn't do anything anymore! In any case, he would have tried to somehow develop a relationship with his object of interest. But instead of courtship, we end up straight in bed. Seriously? He had time to do something before this. (But apparently the developers didn’t have time) And that’s why I say that they could have done at least the first kiss scene. Even just extending the scene with the “book”. It would not have interfered with the scene under the stars; on the contrary, it would have been more logical. But there is simply nothing of this.
About "cynical answers". Yes, I’ll probably also remain silent.
Your point one puzzled me a little, but I guess it depends on how you play the game. Gale's "Last Night alive" is triggered by entering Moonrise for the first time, so if you go there last, I guess it starts pretty late. If you go there directly as the plot advices you to, it's one of the first romances you can get confirmed - especially if you only visit the Mountain Pass after Lae'zel really bullies you into it.
So from my perspective: I slaughtered things in the Shadowcurse and got the book scene, headed over to Moonrise, got the "Last Night alive" during the next long rest and then did Lae'zel the favour to finally look for the Crčche and to enjoy kisses in the morning sun.
Not that I would say no to more camp scenes, but the timing hast never felt weird to me, because the tiefling party, battle-thrills moment and the night under the stars all happen shortly after one another. The time between the magic lesson and the tiefling party being arguably the longest.
How interesting! We actually play the game completely differently. After the tiefling party, I go to the Underdark, then Grimforge -> Mountain Pass -> Rosimorn Abbey (for the blood of Lathander). Then I return to Grimforge, and through it I go to the Dark Lands. Considering that I try not to miss content, it's quite a long way to get to the Moon Towers.
And the “Last Night Alive” scene starts most often after completing the content of “Last Light Inn”, Shar dungeons, and completing the first battle in the Moon Towers. Before the release of Song of the Night. And this is really the end of the second act
But I'll try to change the route this time, maybe something will go differently
Gah, the forum didn't allow me to reply to anything in a while. I just wanted to say that I also think this is super interesting, it's probably really hard to pace camp scenes or a romance arc, when the way how different players approach elements of the game can differ so greatly.
And finally: Thank you for the nice conversation, I greatly enjoyed it. =)
