Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Patch 6 Destroyed Player Agency with Astarion

It's your tone that's just uncivilised. You come into a thread and start insulting a character, you are a provocateur.

Hey lets not fight and get the thread locked. Just wait for the moderator to come and hopefully resolve things and in the meantime ignore each other. It's not worth it.

Please come to us. KillerRabbit is provoking people, AA fans. I'm tired of seeing these attacks, this is a feedback thread, not an argument, and not demeaning players, demeaning their choices, wishing everything bad for Ascended Astarion.

To flag you need to click on the flag icon above my post

Thank you. The strength of my reaction took me by surprise and I know that other people had a similar experience. So, I appreciate your supporting the changes.

As to the question of Player Agency and the nature of the romance, I think we will simply have to agree to disagree, but again thank you for setting out your arguments and reasoning.

Ascended Astarion is a video game character so "wishing everything bad" for him is not any kind of harm to anyone, though I'd also argue that Killer Rabbit wasn't doing that at all. In either case though, he is not a real person and it will have absolutely no impact on his pixelated life.

To stay more on topic, I don't see the harm in Larian changing Tav/Durges expressions to more neutral ones, or allowing the player to choose between some expressions for some role-playing purposes.

Killer Rabbit basically wished all AA fans, a bad ending for them.

KillerRabbit isn't violating any rules. People have different opinions and should assume good faith. This topic also seems redundant and prone to unnecessary assumptions about people. There are many other threads for this exact topic that are ongoing and this discussion might be better served there rather than here.

The thread has faced the Jhe'stil Kith'rak and survived. Few can say the same


Thanks! I hope you've sent this to Larian. I wonder if they have a sensitivity reader? If there is a way to avoid triggering people while preserving the story in its current state that would be ideal.

Killer Rabbit wished to save Tav from AA.
Just a big and white cloak aggressively saving you from a vampire and a horrible fate by saying "I told you so".
Without a single thought that Tav choosing this path with pure understanding never wants to be rescued from AA and be with him in the castle enjoying decadence and debauchery.
Here about who play this Tav.

Ascended Astarion can't really be harmed (try it). He is untouchable. And yes a pixel.
AA fans are easy to harm.
When they want to save you from your cure, literally, and tell you it's toxic, (thanks cap) but it's still a cure.

That's why Tav-victim face is illogical and trigger.
Which Killer Rabbit agrees with, that it's a trigger.

They don't agree with what some one saying "is a D\S dynamic by consent".
This is where the combination of the uncombinable comes: With that satisfied face, it will be consent.
Which it was the whole time, on the night of turning and all the way to the epilogue.
But for some strange unknown reason, some fans want this romance to be horrible for Tav and Astarion, so need to save Tav or just watch Tav suffer since Tav chose that and doesn't want to be saved. Because it's evil and must to be horrible failure.

I saw everything I wanted to see) You can troll people, write nasty things, provoke, wish AA fans the worst and everything will be ok.

On topic: Totally support changing the animations at Tav/DU

I can’t be the only one who enjoys being given the option to play the ‘bad end’
my only issue with the Ascended Astarion route is that it didn’t go far enough. Maybe that’s why there’s some ambiguity around what he and Tav are at the end of that route. As soon as you are given the option of either ending things, or letting him ‘end’ you. You’re pretty much locked in. I also think it’s another place where some kind of control over the character’s inner monologue would have been welcome.
he will always see you as degrading yourself being with him. But perhaps you wish to degrade yourself
Jesus Christ, I hope I do, this guys about to kill me!

As for the expression, I think it’s warranted and sought after. Or maybe that’s how I rationalize it.

You're not the only person. Yours is the majority opinion. If you were to say you liked the outcome of the PC being mistreated by AA because it fits his story, you would get widespread approval in most comment sections and forums. You may just not see it here, given this is a feedback thread where players who don't share your opinion provide their suggestions.

There's definitely plenty of places you could go to discuss 'the cycle of abuse' and how much you love the outcome for AA players. It's a very popular opinion.

I strongly agree with this.

(except for the word saccharine. i think a better word would be masturbatory. it devalues the entire story.)

How deeply should player agency go, especially in secondary scenarios like this, considering the grand scheme of things? At some point, events must unfold as the writers intended, and they chose to depict the player character, who had plenty of agency along the way, as scared and fearful when assaulted by a sadistic vampire. I think one problem is the fact that Tav is essentially an empty husk with no defined personality or backstory, aside from what each player imagines, leaving nothing within the game to make the portrayal of Tav's body language and facial expressions predictable. Even though I think the game gives you enough information and hints to predict how AA would behave. I totally understand that some AA fans can perceive this new animation as some sort of betrayal, but interpretations can vary greatly. So I think it's also important to recognize and respect Larian's artistic decisions.

Just think. Tav has a tadpole in his brain. Right? Right. Astarion cannot control our character at this time. It is truth too. Tav himself initiates the kiss, and his face expresses horror. Where is the logic? And then our character can come and come again, and again we will see this face of fear. For what reason?

This is where the line of normal fan treatment ends.
Asexuals choose ascension.
People with sexual problems choose ascension, not to be told how "masturbatory" and stupid they are.
People with trauma choose ascension because, brutally violent to the abuser and taking everything away is also a way to heal.
I've never felt like a big rock with no feelings\personality.

I'm just wondering from a cold minded perspective, did you read my criticism of this line-victim Tav?
Tav's victim line with the frightened face during the kiss is a romance change.

The beauty of the game is that it gives only hints, without a concrete answer. And everyone in their head-gun completes the story on their own. The game gave enough hints that AA would be controlling and abusive, and that this is a continuation of the cycle of violence, etc. Or did it? And if you're on the same page, he won't need to. "You'll be amazingly obedient as it is" can be looked at from many different angles. Both that he'll control you, and that without it, you'll do what he wants do it yourself. And if you think that one diabolical act makes a Disney villain character forever, that's ridiculous. Some are wagering-that TAB is the victim, others that they supported him at first and then realized the mistake, others that I'm the most beloved Spawn and are happy with the situation. Why can't each of those choices be respected? Everyone sees the situation differently.
I see it my way too. Maybe I don't want a TA? is the victim. I want a freaking pact with the devil where I'm the favored brat.

I never objected to Spawn changing the ending with the burning. I'm both hands in favor and understand those who feel resentment about it. But you might as well then say no, let it stay that way because he's been a jerk throughout the game and it's impossible to get a "happy ending" for everyone. Carlach doesn't have a heart, she's on fire. Astarion doesn't have a sun. Lazaelle has no Orpheus at certain choices. Sheduhart has no parents. Will has no power. Gale has no crown and ambition, he became a teacher. Something has to be sacrificed for the greater good.
So why even in the epilogue, the game says Astarion will probably find the cure, Carlach has found the blueprints, Orpheus can survive and watch from the shadows, maybe give hints to Lazael and they will defeat Vlaakit. Sheduhart and Gale are happy with their situation and who knows where life will take them. Will runs into Averno with a blade at the ready and makes do without the force. That leaves the open ending.
(But there is no open ending for AA. He's an abuser and a sadist. And he'll always be, he said I'm "always watching.") "The sound of sarcasm". Maybe I'm overreacting, but I really don't get it.

All most AA fans ask for is a satisfied TAB face. That's it. Seriously, is that so much to ask for? For wagering regret, you have dialog and options before you turn to Spawn. For wagering victim, you now have freaking ubiquitous knees and possessive proprietary kisses. For wagering Tav satisfied with the status quo Spawn, you have something?

Instead of the support you can get on the forum at least in a specific thread, I'm seeing "no, you deserve it, this is how the story should go, enjoy it" again and I'm sick of it. I've now abandoned the game because every attempt I make to start it boils down to me spending an hour creating a new character, picking out a face, eyes, hairstyle, then dressing it up, watching this contented dummy stand there and realizing that if I lead it down my favorite story path, I'm "supposed to enjoy the violence". So I close the game. Hello reality. And thank you all for the "you got the story wrong and got what you deserved".
(c) "I hate it, this is awfull".

Thank you for your comment which I fully approve and agree with every single word. Unfortunately, English is not my first language and I have a lot of difficulty expressing myself. Thank you so much for doing this.
Like you, after the release of patch 6, I also stopped playing due to the controversial feelings aroused by the face of TAV but not only that, also by Astarion. Now, whether it's AAstarion or Spawn Astarion, I feel sick when I see it.
I'm sorry to have to give up the BG3 game that I loved so much for such a reason.

Larian could add 5 types of Lord Astarion's strikes if they so wanted to show that he could scare the player with something.
This could perfectly be done if the player broke up with Astarion, before the battle, to show his behavioral, attitude.
The player doesn't want to - Astarion does.
There are so many possibilities. Kissing is not one of those possibilities.
When the player wants to, the player doesn't hit Astarion, and kisses him, no fear, kisses him.

Betrayal of Lord Astarion by the gur right after the ritual, and say lose on purpose. Cutscene, Impact.
Spawn or die, it's possible to play that scene with Astarion. Mortal Tav no either, no bites or promises. Epilogue where there are ally and lover responses.
Maybe because Larian didn't want to go too far, because they wanted balance for this romance. Who knows.

Scared faces during the kissing misstake.
Otherwise it doesn't make sense in terms of tadpole-plot, Tav choices, player choices.