Originally Posted by Metarra
Originally Posted by Brainer
Shadowheart: was actually a Selunite all along, only kidnapped and brainwashed, complete with a lot of Mary Sue moments throughout
Shadowheart may have a few mary sue moments but at least she isn't a mary sue the whole time. *cough* Karlach *cough*

This is a pet peeve of mine and the fact it's regarding a character I really like just makes it more salient; Karlach is in no way a Mary Sue, a Mary Sue is a specific trope with identifiable traits and meanings. The narrative does not bed around Karlach, she's not treated as super special or flawless or always right, nor does the story become illogical at any point in order to portray Karlach as right or likeable. Shadowheart is closer to being a Mary Sue than Karlach, but she's also not a Mary Sue. She's presented as special and important for somewhat unclear reasons, but she's also presented as wrong in her beliefs, people do take issue with her and can call her out, the story doesn't twist to make her seem right, etc. Mary Sue doesn't mean bland, though a Mary Sue is likely to be bland.