Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Add more answer options for Astarion

These are excellent, concise points on the issue we're discussing in this thread.

For players who frequent and prefer the AA path, these are discussed very often as a failure in proper RP writing.

Of course there are plenty of other valid criticisms to his characters writing. But this is one I see discussed with more frequency than most. Not Astarion's dialogue, but ours.

For me, that morning scene is more than serious, and picking on Astarion after watching him greet the dawn, seeing his scars, and listening to him talk about how Cazador cut them out is definitely not my thing, and I won't do it even if there are curious answers there. But, for the sake of a fuller character study, I'll look for someone else's video of that scene, since you say it's interesting. In the Act 3 scene I'd really like to respond with some funny joke to his line about "pets", behind the monitor I salute and say something like, "Captain Garfield is ready for the next mission, sir!" Certainly not such a silly line, something more witty and appropriate, but a good joke instead of some corny swearing in response to Astarion calling Tav a pet - that would liven up the dialog scene wonderfully.


Yes, I was also impressed for a long time after the Act 2 scene, it was a feeling of inexpressible deep tenderness for Astarion, as if he handed his wounded heart into my hands, and I hold it as carefully as possible, and there is nothing more precious in this world. I want to see another confession scene after Orton, other players have said it's even better, will be curious to compare. Act 3 scene in the graveyard - I don't see any problems with the script, but it leaves a heavy, oppressive emotional impression, a longing. But this is my personal perception, and I don't want to rate scenes for other people's walkthroughs, it's up to the players who choose that route. I don't understand at all why Tav can't open Astarion's consciousness in Act 3, after passing the check in the kneeling scene, when they did it in Act 2. "Open your mind" is a great option for a confession (in Act 2 it's just a pity you can't do it at the same time as the embrace, it would be perfect), but it's in Act 3, after "Astarion thinks you're degrading yourself by staying with him" that it's just the first thing that comes to mind, not in words, but just so he can see, it's what I want to do, it's what needs to be done, but it can't be done! And then I remember that in the second act I did it. And I haven't forgotten how to do it. But now I can only kneel silently, that's it, Astarion must think I like to degrade myself. There's only one, one choice, there's no other option. Act 2 has two great options, so then I load up the save just to hug Astarion, two more not so flashy but quite good options, like asking him to do what he wants to do, or saying that you can be together and you don't have to sleep together to do it, if it were possible to choose these options not as the main line but as additional lines, I'd love to do it. And in the third act, that's it, bad lines, and it's mandatory, straight-up mandatory that I have to sign off on the fact that I enjoy degrading myself. It looks like the author can write well, and only at certain specific moments, for whatever reasons of their own, don't want to do so.


What kind of history did Rooney create for AA's characterization? Rooney talked about the complexity of Astarion's character and also that all paths should be comfortable to walk through. I don't think he assumed as if everyone who loved his character and helped him ascend necessarily liked to degrade themselves and wanted to sexually objectify Astarion. And if you play without the romance, there's nothing wrong with AA's characterization; those who value Astarion as a friend, and who "don't care about 7000 jerks to keep their brother from burning" don't complain about anything at all, except that (especially after patch 6) they joke about "Well, you, Astarion, are a total... It's a good thing I'm not a woman".

I read about Sylas and Delilah, I completely understand Delilah and give her +100 approval, if there was an opportunity for such a point of view and such a roleplay - it would be an unrivaled story. Except in this case more players would ascend Astarion and the "moral lessons" might completely fail. Love without devotion to me is no longer love, it's something that has no value. And if in reality loneliness is far better than a relationship without devotion, then in a game I would rather have a game without romance than a romance without devotion. Of course, this is my point of view, others may think otherwise, and I believe that in an Ascended Astarion romance, devotion is one of its defining qualities. In the hearts of the players who ascend him "per aspera ad ascend", love him, try to fight for him and will not abandon him no matter what, will do the mods themselves if they have to. In an ideal world, of course, there would have to be two authors, one for your story and one for ours, and the option to choose between those two lines. But honestly, I'm glad no one warned me beforehand that Tav would be a tool, BG3 wouldn't be a full-fledged RPG (RPG is a roleplaying game, roleplay is the main word in the very name of the genre), that instead of an RPG I would be forced into a novella about a "cycle of abuse" and made to love degrading myself, then I would have made round eyes, said "ew!", wouldn't have bought the game and never met Astarion. Astarion is worth all that, right now I just want Larian to fix the really awful scenes (kissing patch 6) and it would be fine to give just one good line to talk in the post-Ascension scene. I'm not asking for any other changes in Astarion's behavior, on the contrary, I'm afraid of any changes in Astarion's behavior, I don't believe in anything good, including regarding the scene under discussion, just so there's no cognitive dissonance from the option I choose and that's it, especially since it really doesn't cost much.

Lets please get back to the original topic, that the OP started. Shall we? Thanks! <3

Here are some great lines suggested by players in this thread. Every one of them is better than the ones in the game.

Yuniex:

“I'm happy is over and you finally get to live again!"

"I'm happy that you are free, and is enough for me to be by your side".

Ametris:

'Now I just want to get rid of the tadpoles' - Astarion could say: 'That's the next step, of course. Thanks to the ritual our chances of survival have grown exponentially... And they still can grow further. You could become something more as well, my dear. One little bite...'

"I want to be with you' - Astarion could say: 'Darling, that's exactly what I want as well. To be with you, always. And I have the means to make it a beautiful reality. We could be together for an eternity...'

'You don't have to do anything for me, I'm just glad he won't bother us anymore and we can relax now. We're finally free of him.' - Astarion could say: 'Oh my dear, you truly are the sweetest. We are free, yes, and we'll never have to worry about it anymore. Just like I never have to fear anyone again... so can you become stronger and see all your foes fall before you. You could be so much more..."

'I think we should toast to our victory. I've been saving a bottle just for the occasion.' - Astarion could say: 'You are just so adorable. You even thought of that... awww. We'll do it eventually of course. But don't you want this night to be truly memorable and one of a kind? You could become mine forever...'

'We could go for a midnight stroll in some dark alleys and look for trouble. Not like I'll have to worry about getting hurt with a mighty vampire lord by my side.' - Astarion could say: 'Haha, what a delightful idea, we should definitely do it one night. You could actually become untouchable yourself, you know. I can make it happen... You could join me in immortality and be mine forever...'

Bethra:

'I just want to be with you my love'.

Nicolean Complex:

"I just want to be with you"

And I'll add my five cents just for the variety of options:

"You're free! You feel alive again! You've had your revenge and you've gotten everything you deserve - all the joys of life are open to you, and they're yours. Can there be a greater reward for me than this?"

Completely agree with OP. One of the PLAYER dialogue choices in this conversation should be supportive and positive. Astarions dialogue doesn't need to change at all. I'm kinda fed up with being moralised at.
I choose him because in my role play I love him. I didn't know being a vampire like him was even an option when I ascended him (we never spoke about it before) at the time this conversation lands he hasn't even offered it. I spent most of Act 2 and whatever portion of Act 3 I'm now at being celibate, so he could get over his trauma so wanting his body wasn't a main motivation for anything. He can call me pet, or any other endearment, whenever he wants and I like it.
So why on toril am I now being all hurtful and confrontational when he isn't trying to pick a fight and I'm certainly not? I loathe this dialogue.

Agree with Marielle.

And

Agree with Bethra.

I agree with Bethra. There was no dialog about vampirism, he never suggested it before, and I didn't even have it in my mind either. All I cared about vampirism was Astarion's problems with the phenomenon. I reacted with great apprehension to any suggestion of getting rid of the maggots (what if it works and Astarion without the larvae goes back to being a ordinary spawn with all the consequences that entails), after the ritual I was finally able to experience genuine joy and relief, why would I be resentful and aggressive? The fact that he is no longer hungry or in need of a larva is far more important to me (and consequently to my Tav) than the fact that Astarion decided to call me a pet (oops, trouble!). Tav might joke about it something like, "Well, I hope it's at least a wolfhound and not a bologna," but certainly not offended like a little girl. I would never hint (and even less demand) intimacy with a loved one if he had a trauma related to it, after all, in asexual relationships people can love each other perfectly well and be happy together, only in the case of a directly expressed desire and initiative from Astarion himself, I could want intimacy with him. I don't understand how the Ascension ritual could have influenced me to suddenly become sexually incontinent, because no one did the ritual with me, and it doesn't seem realistic to me that participating in the ritual as a helper and spectator could do that to my mind.

I also agree that he should be the one to offer the consort option. Not Tav asking for it. That should be his gift to offer, not us demanding it. Just my opinion though.

Agreed 100%!

I also noticed it all the way back when I first got to this polint with my first character and was entirely taken out of the game because of how wildly OOC this all was. You can either demand things form him.. or blame/whine at him. What intelligent character, who presumably knew what they were getting themselves into, would react in such a way?

Larian, you pride yourself on letting us play they way we want, considering even the most outlandish options and catering to even the darkest, most messed-up scenarios, and yet THIS is the place you think it's appropriate to make moral judgements and "teach lessons" to your - presumably - adult and intelligent audience?

This is much much more logical.

If the parameters of his romance is you HAVE to be turned or he breaks up...the relationship parameter is *his*, not the PCs.

Making him be the one to bring it up is more consistent.

I would rather that the role play allow for all headcanons and be logical within the story parameters that were set up in the game. For those who do not follow this particular romance, our choices in the game should not matter to them because it is me and Astarion on my screen. Yet I believe that everyone should be allowed to play how they like to fit their own headcanon. The studio should make the possible avenues. The player is making headcanon. And the choices are up to the player. But there SHOULD be good, neutral, & bad choices available for all of the options. And those who LOVE AA, do not see this as a bad path. We love this path. So a good option, a neutral option, and a bad option should be the go to, if this is kept in a logical role playing game context.

I truly, honestly believe that Larian will listen.

This is something we have been asking to be changed for a long time, and before Larian leaves the building completely...please look at the 2 things the true fans of the ascendant want. To let him ascend, let him have it all, and we get the dark romance that we requested. For those who role play this path, we should all enjoy every aspect of the game.

We believe in Larian so much, that we are asking for this to be implemented.

Astarion, 'I have watched too many people I cared about die, or at least I thought they died. Now I am ascended I would outlive you and I would hate that so much, watching you die and being unable to do anything about it. If you choose not to become a vampire I think we would have to part ways as I can't be there for that, not again, never again if I have anything to say about it.'

Makes sense of the breakup if you choose not to become his bride and is what I hear in my mind when I'm playing through this awful conversation.

Currently I just cycle though it as quickly as possible so that I don't have time to think about it as in it's current state it's illogical and completely immersion breaking.

The thing about him calling you 'Pet' is just utterly ridiculous to me. Most of Astarion's dialogue was written by Rooney, he's from ireland, in common with most of the Uk and both northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland the term 'Pet' is used as an endearment. It doesn't signify anything more than that, I've heard it used towards people more or less all my life, in London its often 'petal' but its more or less the same meaning - no one decided it was some weird type of abuse. In my Uk ears its the same as him saying 'My love' or 'My dear'. It was probably unfortunate that that the word used was one which doesn't travel in other cultures very well but no more than that.

I realized, by the way, what Astarion means when he calls Tav "Pet". P.E.T. - Perfect Every Time.

Makes sense

The only time Astarion sort of offers "his gift" himself is when the player starts reading "morality" and chooses to branch the dialog through swearing.
Morality - and what did you learn?
Scolding - what was I supposed to learn?
Provocation - how to love me?
Scolding - and what makes you think I haven't learned? So it's over?
The only option for reconciliation - No, we'll work it out.
Then the poor guy grabs his heart with trembling hands and says, "you're the one I love, the one I want to be with".
It is not good.
The other 3 options are pretty bad.
1. I want to be a vampire.
The player doesn't know, Astarion doesn't know, in fact, only Mephistopheles probably knows what an Ascended Vampire is. Can he turn others? And into what? Tav didn't know what a spawn was, and Astarion told her about it, and this is a new level. It's illogical to ask him to do that. He should offer it himself.
2. I want your body.
Tav is an emotionless creature. Listening to his partner with his ears closed. That's throwing all morals out to the bear in the brothel.
4. I'm not your pet.
He called Tav that before. Cheeky little puppy. Bag of blood. Baal's little baby (for TC). He likes to give names. And here it's a grudge.
TC has a unique retort after turning to the spavn (if you got the assassin guise) that I was an unknowable critter anyway, then the spavn status doesn't confuse me. To which Astarion says I knew you'd be cool about it. Such a Tav-TS didn't take offense to the pet.

We are not asking to change Astarion, we need to give Tav a chance to respond positively. Astarion will also continue to bend the branch of dialog about the turn.

Do you have any positive lines that you might want to add @Mirmi? Anything that you would like to see that someone hasn't suggested yet?

I agree with OP and the others.

My humble suggestion would be to add 1 positive/good answer for tav/the player, which will lead to the same existing voice line of Astarion, which he is giving to Tav's answer "I want you. I want your body": "You've earned it. But don't you want more - don't you want eternity? One more bite is all it would take. That's what you want, isn't it? To be mine? Forever?"

No new recordings of Neil would then be needed. So instead of the selfish, transactional and for most romance players OOC answer "I want you. I want your body", add one of this:

"I'd like to be by your side, that's enough for me."
"I want to be/stay with you."

Or something similiar in proper english, which fits to Astarion's existing voice line I mentioned above, but which would be a more positive, sensitive, altruistic answer. Simple.

+1
That would be perfect!

Yes, if they would change the horrible one that says I want your body to this instead: "I want to be with you, my love. I love you Astarion and I wanted you to have everything that makes you happy in this world." Or something to that sort of statement. Then would come in the voiced line of Neil's for that particular choice. It wouldn't hurt if it was edited slightly, but I am sure they have enough takes to do it.

"Well, what if I want more? Eternity? Don't you want more? One more bite is all it would take. That is what we both want, isn't it? For you to be mine? Forever?"

That would the perfect statement in my mind, but what do you guys think? I think there would be a way to edit the dialogue (easily) AND to fit that as well as Neil's voice line. I would then be completely over the moon with that one.

That is my thought. <3

So many great options have already been suggested here, under which you don't even need to rewrite Astarion's voice lines, that I don't have anything to add.
I just agree that what we have now should be changed.

"I'd like to be by your side, that's enough for me."
"I want to be/stay with you."
Perfect+1.

I agree with Mirmi. I don't need nor do I want to change any voice lines or behaviour of Astarion here. On the contrary, I really like his "That's what you want, isn't it? To be mine? Forever?" - it gave and gives me chills, everytime I hear it. Astarion is trying to seduce Tav plus it shows his dominance and narcissism, which I think was brilliantly done and voice acted. it's not about "us" yet, Astarion clearly says "you" in a seducing manner like in act 1. I love that. I really wouldn't want to change him or his voice lines here. Only Tav's answer as suggested, because the missing positive answer (only negative and selfish ones) are breaking the roleplay of most good and neutral characters.