Originally Posted by dwig
Originally Posted by kanisatha
Sorry but no. D&D 5e is the poster-child for a dumbed-down, over-simplified and superficial character creation system. Even just within D&D, 3.5e is far more deep, complex and sophisticated, as amply demonstrated by the awesomeness of character creation and development in the Pathfinder games. But even better as a deep and complex system is that of the PoE games, which for me is by far the best out there.

I know your take here is popular in some circles, but I personally don't think 3.5 was deep. It was complicated and bloated... but not deep. IMO 5e is the better system because it is simpler, and gets itself out of the way of playing the game.

I love the 3.5e derived pathfinder games from Owlcat, but they are great in spite of the system, not because of it.
Fair enough. I get your pov. But for me, what you consider to be "bloat" I consider to be juicy goodness, and what you consider to be "simpler" I consider to be simplified. Different strokes, I suppose.