Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Patch 6 Destroyed Player Agency with Astarion

The guy must be a troll, he's spamming some threads with nonsense like that.

Can a mod please permanently ban this user? This is unspeakable. Profoundly offensive.

My best assumption is that this user is trying to pose as a concerned leftist to make any critics of lack of/bad representation look bad, to discredit people who are critical of how certain things were handled ingame.
As usual, although I'm skipping it right now, I'd encourage to follow the internet golden rule of not feeding the troll.

As mentioned in other threads they’ve spammed, Thelxiope has got a 24 hour timeout. Let’s draw a line here. Cheers!

Oh no.
Anyway.
Can we talk about how painfully inaccurate it is for Larian to assume people who ascend Astarion only do it because it's sexy?
.
Do they just ignore all the straight men who ascend him without romancing? Or just those who do in general but don't even like him? How does that logic track? That alone robs the player of any agency.

Yes, of course it would be illogical and insulting people's intelligence and complex emotions. What can you say about this other than it's very grotesque and kindergarten. A very limited, immature view with no rhyme or reason. But nothing surprises me anyway, I have looked into the deepest abyss of humanity. I honestly didn't expect something like this from an RPG game, but at some point it's always the first time. Such fatal script/rewrites, also with taking the agency of the players away, now sound like: The devil may care.
You could also write this: You raided the Emerald Grove and someone asks your Tav: "Did you feel arou.. enjoyment while killing?" Answers to choose 1: Yes, very much. 2: Of course 3: Absolutely. And then you hear somewhere: The players raided the grove because they wanted to arou.. enjoy themselves. Unfortunately, they failed to see the grove as anything more than a kink. - And now they will add a new cutscene where your Tav is being tortured by their "bad conscience" and screaming in agony - right after your Tav said or had to say, that they enjoyed raiding the grove. Sense? No. Between the lines: >>Go back, for god's sake, reload, and take the "good" path! Repent!<< Yes, funny. In any case, something wasn't mature or respectful enough here.

At the end of the day, this is it.
I've been browsing these forums for awhile now-- and the complaints seem the same regardless of the subject. The story is shallow. The writing is childish. Plot holes and inconsistencies everywhere.

I got this game because it won GOTY. But all I'm wondering now is 'why?'

It seems so, that a lot of people are complaining, I think, especially right now, that it is clear, there won't be a DLC or people are “not going to see massive content changes,” and people may realize that some inconsistencies will not be remedied or whatelse some people wished to see in the game, will not come. Everyone has their own opinion about the game or the story telling and it also depends, what is important for yourself. I had my playthrough before patch 6 and overall, I really liked the game (not to mention the great soundtrack, amazing voice acting, attention to details, stunning visual, motion captures): I think acts 1 and 2 are extremely well done. Act 3 then slows down and I found some inconsistencies. There was much more potential here. But I was able or at the end had to overlook it. There are different writers working on the game, so this happens.
The question but is: How devastating are the inconsistencies (especially if implemented months after release) for the gaming experience? And patch 6 inconsistent and non-consensual (Tav's behaviour) "kiss"-scenes around Valentine's day, which also harms reallife people, SA/DV survivors or victims, including victim-blaming and bullying from social media mob (how else should you describe this) is an absolut no-go and far from being just a moral pointer by an odd view. I myself don't like to see, when people are harmed and bullied by others, I find this disgusting. (This romance is just played by a minority, but if this would happen in another romance route or the main story, and assuming the jury knew about it, I would not be sure, if they would win the award for narrative or player's choice)

I'm really worried right now that amidst all the recent news and the fact that the core team is developing another game, something that already exists might be spoiled. I wasn't expecting any super additions or changes. The game upon release was enough for me. Even with that mini kiss instead of a kiss. It's there and thanks for that. The game up to and including patch 5 only got better.

There are so many dialog branches and variations, that in 7 playthroughs I found something for myself each time that I didn't find in past playthroughs. Even if it's 1 phrase or skit for some class, but it was written, added. And it was a pleasant surprise. Even the occurrence of any bug was entertaining. I caught a moment when Mintara could only be obtained on the good path through a sheep. Gods, that was fun! Caught the moment when Will could be left human and don't kill the Carlach. Wow - a loophole in the devil's contract! At one point I had an Emperor standing in my Act II camp! Just for fun, it was a bug, but it was fun! Added an epilogue, wow, rays of love and goodness to the developers!

After patch 6, I realize that some updates are better not to download.(
Now every hotfix I look askew at. And seriously wondering if I should download patch 5 or the release version and live in blissful ignorance.

I didn't like being slapped in the face. It doesn't seem like a fun game. Not on Tav's part.
I didn't like the knees being all over the place now. These are not 1 on 1 games in the room. Now it's cheap.
I was too dumb to see that it turns out Astarion is in favor of it. That in the goblin scene he likes that kind of thing, I thought he was messing with me. And with Abdirak, I thought he was cheering me up like that. Perhaps if this topic had been covered a little better, it wouldn't have come as a surprise to people like me. Okay, well, that's my aging worldview.

I can probably get over it if Tav's faces are changed. But then for whom was I choosing to "be gentle" if the bottom line is the same?

New: "Baldur's Gate 3 developers are not only working on additional scenes for the game's endings, but also new endings.
The new endings, according to Winke, are designed for players playing villains.".

Oh, well...Exciting and scary at the same time.

I am truly stunned.... Today I posted a very polite and nice feedback on Discord to Larian about this whole Astarion thing and I explained why it was such an issue for me personally and I was very polite like I just mentioned, when I went back to check 10 minutes later (I just had this feeling...) the post was deleted!

Now.... there are like at least 15 posts trashing Larian because they're leaving BG3 and moving on, or that's how people are conveying it in their complaints there and I'm not going to repeat the words people are writing about them but I am telling you they are cussing and calling them names, so now I'm really wondering why MY post which was so polite and an ACTUAL feedback was deleted and those other several posts which contained such trashy words about them are still there, how is that logical??? How can one not think that it's because Astarion is hated??? It's a feedback section and I was just giving my feedback for the FIRST time. Damn....

Anyway, sorry, I don't mean to derail this thread, just venting. Please don't close this thread because of this comment mods....

Maybe the reason is that they are already aware of the problem (or minor detail). And they delete it so they don't duplicate it? I don't know, that's a guess. But people have written that duplicate messages from the Discord get cleaned up. But I'm sorry your post was deleted.

@ Mirimi I agree with you that making it so the kiss on the knees can pop up anywhere at all was not a great decision. It really is hard to suspend belief when that happens somewhere like the middle of the street.
My main objection to it is I think it really cheapens the scene where Tav is turned, instead of being an animation unique to that moment, it's now just random kiss number whatever.

I was disappointed to hear that Larian are not going to continue and make BG4, but my main worry now is that BG3 will be left as it is and that support will drop off. I really hope that doesn't happen and that all the issues players are currently having are addressed.

My personal wish list:

Bugs obviously
More kisses for U.A.
A.A. kisses - Tav's expression and body language changed at the very least
Inconsistencies in the script eleminated
Minthara (see thread on this forum for details)

People reported it as spam because the kiss with Astarion is so terrible and your feedback here and on Discord was so frequent. Maybe that's why it's gone.

Thank you. You might be right about that, I was just surprised seeing those other posts were still there but it makes sense.

Maybe so, I guess we'll never know now lol. It's not a place I usually hang out, just wanted to provide feedback in the hopes that they'll finally do something.

Don't worry about it. Patches and hotfixes will be available until some time. And they will also add endings for the evil passage. of course, I hope this will really please the players, and not upset them In general, do not worry. I think they heard us a long time ago, and they will do something.

Thanks :))

Yes, it was mentioned before, that the Larian mod deletes all feedback regarding these patch 6 scenes, but that they would still read it - of course, there is no guarantee. But so, it was surely not because of your feedback. It is a sensitive subject and I think no company would want this issue
to be spread, and that they would prefer to handle this with care. I don't think most of the team approve of what "happened" and I hope, Tav's behaviour will be fixed in these scenes.

“So they're working on the evil endings right now,” he said. “I've seen some of them. They're really evil. So the evil players will be satisfied with that.” (IGN)
"the evil players" - it depends, what "evil players" mean. If they mean it for real, I mean.. you know.. the players have evil traits, then I would not be sure, if the evil endings will be satisfying for non-evil people, lol - but I'm very excited

Thank you for these examples. They say much more than a thousand "arguments" from those who think Astarion is "better off without the ritual". And if it takes Astarion being ashamed of his pain, of how much he was deceived, during that damn "heroic triumph" to keep that "heroic slipper", then this rotten world deserves to be "plunged into darkness".


Yes, thank you for this article, it illustrates well the original, real vision of Astarion. Astarion really was (and is, because it's not Astarion in those kisses, but a talentless sadistic fake) complex as a real person. And that's why:

“He makes me feel things I’ve never felt before,” another person wrote.

A comment from one of the players quoted in this article. I can only echo it (and many probably can). And when first an image is created that is really loved, really, really, because it's a beautiful, most alive character, and then that image starts to be turned into some silly, pointless agitation on the theme of "this is the kind of relationship you can't get into" - it's a failure. It's like a vandal going into an art gallery, picking out the most beautiful painting there, and spray-painting a crooked image of reproductive organs on it. This causes anger, because initially bad game does not cause anger, it's habitual, well, you didn't like the crap, you threw it away, bought another one, it's no big deal. But when an initially great game, with a wonderful, lively Astarion, six months after release, a patch turns into what we see now - it's a real shame. After all, you can only truly disappoint someone who truly loved it.


And when he returns to the top, he can be himself again. Aristocratic manners, behavior, we see it all in Astarion after the Ascension, his aristocratic past finding its continuation in his present. The castle again, the balls, the proud posture, the gestures, the confidence...

Also wanted to point out in the article you cited:

«These elements of his story have been crucial to Astarion’s success, some fans said — especially those who have survived sexual trauma as well as those who live with disorders like PTSD.»

«As someone affected by trauma, Newbon said he felt his performance was able to capture the realities and authenticity of surviving trauma.

“Now, having heard from so many survivors and talking to people, and realizing that not only did I feel right, but most importantly they feel this was right, it’s a beautiful experience,” Newbon said. “It really is and I feel very honored.”

It's to the question of what those who made these "kisses" were thinking, who approved and allowed it into the game, who is happy and enjoys it.

I agree with you.

My biggest concern, too, is that they might leave it as it is now, with no fixes. Before, I would have been very upset to hear that there would be no additions, and now, with the new "agenda", it's far from a given that there might be something good in those additions. But it's still a shame when something that started out so excitingly ends this way.

Right now the main dream is to have an all-playable definitive edition.


I wonder if the ending with the Ascended Astarion but with the destruction of the Elder Brain is which ending? Is it still "good" or is it already "evil"? I really like the existing epilogue and the party with Astarion. Adding a kiss and a hug is not much hope (but there is a lot of hope for the modders, it's kind of not that hard to do). I'm afraid the epilogue will be spoiled, I don't fully understand what is meant by "evil endings" yet.