Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Justice for Minthara

Funnily enough I did

Although most of my feedback and criticism is focused here for Minthara because she is broken the most, I also test and report issues for all other companions and aspects of the game.

• Shadowheart's whole interaction about the idol of Shar has been broken for over a year almost and two major content updates, so it's good to finally see that awful mess of a scene fixed. I personally made reports here and 6 months later here, along with several other members who are much more invested fans of Shadowheart and were justifiably unhappy with this scene constantly being broken.
• As for Astarion's kiss animation; that crap animation needed addressing, it looked horrible and destroyed character immersion. The new one actually looks freaking amazing, personally was quite stunned to see how smoking hot it is now.

@papercut_ninja Having sympathy to other players is something most of us have, I'm not really sure what the issue is. We can not control what Larian updates and fixes. Talking down fixes that other players is happy about does not help Minthara bugs, it only serves as a insentive to be aggressive towards other fanbases. I agree that Minthara and Wyll needs more love.

Saying that I prefer one thing to be prioritised over another is not the same as saying I don't like it.

This is a common false dichotomy of fandom - If you don't like what I like, that must mean you hate it. And I feel that I am the one being baited to become defensive and dismissive towards other fanbases here. I do not wish any of the animation fixes to be removed or changed now after the fact that they are done. I simply think that Minthara's bugs and development should be prioritised and I think it's a shame that it isn't and some examples of things that I think are of less importance are kiss animations.

@papercut_ninja It feels more like you are neutral to it, I did not say I thought you hated the update. I'm sure you did not mean it like that, and I was thinking more of a general sense not a personal sense (I see now I probably should have specified that). I agree again that Minthara should have been prioritized. What is more or less important is not really up to me, but up to Larian.



It will be very good to see an end to the horrified faces! I can not wait to see the new changes in-game when Patch 7 releases.

Nice and well done, those issues with Shadowheart don't seem to have been such hot topics so they have passed me by. But issues should be fixed regardless and not always based on who is the loudest and most vocal.

Naturally, issues should be fixed and all companions should be brought up equally while ensuring the bare-minimum quality standard is maintained across all. Unfortunately however I recommend not expecting Minthara to be treated that way at all since even with updates specifically focusing on companions she gets almost nothing but more bugs.

As an example with the Valentines Update #6 which was all about romance; Shadowheart (who is the most developed and fleshed out character in the entire game) received new voice lines if you sit on her camp stool, new romantic banter and a community-requested option to hug her at the end of her personal quest (among other additions). Minthara on the other hand to this day still does not even have any romantic greetings at all, no greeting variety, not even a relationship dialogue branch... and numerous other long-lasting issues.

The utter lack of care is quite evident, though she has practically been abandoned even before Early Access launched which is why this has nothing to do with how popular or vocal the community. The community surrounding Minthara has been the most persistent and consistent one to date, continuously pointing out numerous issues, shortcomings, lack of content and outright neglection of her from the earliest days of Early Access up until this very day. I am just one of countless many people who since Early Access have been pointing out the COLOSSAL imbalance of content and lack of care towards Minthara and the entirety of the "evil" side.

Apart from pretty much all of it falling on deaf ears, it took ages (and several patching attempts) before even her most basic default dialogue became available to players after release, so that's how sad her whole situation. The attention and care will always be given in this exact order, as it always has been;

Good choices > Shadowheart > Lae'zel > Astarion > Gale > Wyll > Karlach > Jaheira > Minsc > Halsin > Evil choices > Minthara.

I would maybe swap a few things around on that list based on my observations, but it's beside the point because there shouldn't be such an obvious discrepancy. While the gap between the attention given to other companions is not that wide that I could argue switching some of them around, the gap to Minthara is an abyss.

It's more like:
Good choices > Shadowheart > Lae'zel > Astarion > Gale > Wyll > Karlach > Jaheira > Minsc > Halsin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Evil choices >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Minthara.

Edit: I would also say that romances and intimacy in general is given much more attention than any other content.

Agree with the last sentence. I wish, they would do more for the other content right now. And especially Minthara is pretty bugged as a companion in every sense.

Yeah that seems about accurate, a few more spaces to the right just for good measure

Fun fact is apart from her not receiving proper attention; there also hasn't been a single update that didn't break her even further, so I dread to imagine how broken she will end up now since it's confirmed she received a new reaction with Update #7.

The last time she received a single new reaction it completely broke her entire reactionary mechanic. Then a hotfix was released to fix it, but instead it just broke it even further. Then another hotfix was deployed that finally fixed it, but then broke several of her Dark Urge dialogues in ACT III along with her barebones romance (by triggering her cut-content break-up scene with Dark Urge out of nowhere).

Fun times. I applied to playtest Update #7 and would pray for her, but;

I had her in my party on my second playthrough (Patch 5/6), and she was almost always in use.

What I noticed the most was that she had few reactions and also seem to be hung up on previous events a couple of times. The Gortash meeting is the one I remember the most as she kept mentioning it through almost all of Act 3.
The DUrge "I'm having bad thoughts" dialog did not clear even though I had talked to her about everything and the only option was to leave the conversation.

I tried to romance her in Act 3, the "big night" never happen and disappeared in other long rest events. I even tried to reload a save now and work my way through all the events before getting her approval up high enough, but it still did not trigger.

As a end note; she is such a cool character. I would love to get more dialog and banter so I can get to know her more. What I love is her clear admiration for DUrge which no other companion have. She also speaks her mind with no filter and I personally like that a lot.

Edit: I just read your list again, and she doesn't have a romance scene in Act 3?? It was so implied in the dialog I just assumed it was bugged.

Unfortunately yes, she does not have a single romance nor camp scene at all as a companion. The lack of her actual love scene once she officially becomes a love interest (either in ACT II or ACT III) is covered under Issue #9, while the lack of her romance & camp scenes in general is more elaborately covered under Content That Needs Adding;


As for her dialogue about Dark Urge's urges; apart from it being terribly buggy it can also become permanently unavailable. Covered under Issue #12;

That infamous line from Minthara that hints for a romance scene to trigger, one glaring problem with this is its not locked to just Act 2 or just Act 3, you can trigger and have it played in both acts so I highly doubt it will ever lead to anything in the future unless the devs decide to lock it in to either acts and have designed a love scene for that in specific, unless they have a system in place that lets you have an adaptive lovescene not be reliant to a specific tileset from a specific act.

All love scenes in the game are act bound, there is a reason we have the stone alcove in Act 1 and a bed in Act 2 campsite in the wilderness instance.

Justice! hehe



Also this is minor, but her signature weapon Xyanyde (the uncommon Mace that encases foes in Faerie Fire) and the fact that she's dual wielding it, would seem to suggests Dual Wielding as her first feat, but this can be pretty awkward. Especially when competing with stuff like Great Weapons. I like the look of the Spidersilk armor a lot, but it's not particularly useful for a Paladin. Feels more like a drop intended for Astarion or Wyll more than something she can really rock herself.

I don't know, perhaps if it summoned a pet Spider or something? I mean then the Spidersilk Armor would feel like it was worth hanging onto. That would make more sense in the trade off at least, like we lose some standard AC from foregoing the heavier armors, but in exchange for an extra attack and some extra flavor coming from a Minthara Minion on 8 legs? Maybe the spider could have a funny running commentary with callbacks to all the other spider stuff that happens in Act 1. The spider egg pouch, the matriarch, Lur Xanta etc. maybe there are some hooks on that specific to Minthara? Perhaos her armor has one of those properties that says "When worn by a Drow... then also X" similar to the Githyanki gear, or some of those Drow weapons we find along the way. Find Familiar Spider would be a fun spell to get from the Spidersilk. The CON saves are nice sure, cause she's got some caster chops, but compared to heavy armors at like 18 or 19 AC or Medium armors at like 15 or 16 but which also do cool stuff like stack radiating orb, again kinda rough to rep the Spidersilk.

Aside from her Boots, which are solid for the duration, all her kit in Act I seems geared for a different Class almost. I suppose it makes sense that she'd want advantages on stealth checks to infiltrate the Grove herself, but then she puts us on that and arrives at the head of a Goblin army like enemy at the Gates just flexing the whole time, so you'd think she'd probably strap something a bit heavier honestly. She does have the glove/gauntlet slot available though, and maybe that could serve as an offset? The Gloves of the Balanced Hands aren't available until Act II from Quartermaster Talli, and by the time they're acquired the player has probably settled into a fighting style already. I feel like those Gloves are maybe meant for her, also cause then she gets more use from the hand crossbow proficiency, but it's not the most obvious. Sorta left field compared to the more important stuff, like say the Dark Urge path romance or dialogues branches being borked, but it would be nice to see Minthara with some gets/ Especially since she's stripped of her weapons when she gets locked up at Moonrise. Xyanyde might also just be considered a light weapon or grant the Dual Wielding feat when worn by a Lolth Sworn Drow, or one of those super specific bonuses that only applies conditionally like if Minthara is using it. As it stands usually all her kit is being traded out for better stuff we already have in the camp chest, except for the boots of course. It'd be nice if the trim colors matched a bit better.

That's because it was, specifically a Cleric ^^

Minthara was originally a support Cleric (therefore [Xyanyde]) and Clerics can't hit anything to save their life (thus Faerie Fire). She did not become a Paladin until the very end of EA with the Patch #9 - Holy Knight that switched her generic shield with a generic mace to dual-wield.

On top of that due to entire development focus going towards the good path; she was always treated as a mini-boss loot-piñata first and a potential companion second, which is why she has so much unique equipment (unlike Halsin who as her direct counterpart does not have any at all).

• [Xyanyde] is a Lolth-inspired Cleric support weapon that never made sense for her in terms of lore as she's an infiltration Drow (not to mention it becomes permanently deleted when recruiting her).
• [Spidersilk Armour] is lore-accurate to what noble Cleric(s) Of Lolth wear and it plays into her being an infiltration Drow.
• [Boots Of Striding] played into her Cleric class due to so many concentrating spells (and if I recall Minthara did use a ton of them while she was a Cleric)
• [Amulet Of Misty Step] played into her being an infiltration Drow as it used to be HER necklace, but then got relocated to Polma's chest instead as random loot.
  
  An absolutely absurd change because it gave Minthara an interesting tid-bit of lore; "This necklace allows the wearer to cast Misty Step. Made of blue gems unique to a privately-owned mine in Menzoberranzan, this necklace was likely a token of esteem - or perhaps a desperate attempt to win its recipient's mercy".

Very little care went into maintaining her consistency, as her being shoehorned into the Paladin class is 100% due to Shadowheart already fulfilling the role of a Cleric and Wither's respec not existing at the time. If one wishes she can still fully utilize her [Spidersilk Armour] by being a DEX Paladin wielding [Phalar Aluve] or [Larethian's Wrath]. Or if dual-wielding by going fully critical with [Knife of the Undermountain King] and [Bloodthirst], along with [The Dead Shot].

They need to fix her recruit method. There needs to be a way that confirms it worked as soon as you knock her out(not showing she's knocked out as that isn't enough because I did that & she still ain't show up)

In case anyone was interested, came across these fascinating bits of fully-voiced datamined content that further enrich her character and add some necessary consistency;

Minthara actually reacting to her knockout recruitment



Halsin throwing an ultimatum about who stays with the group



The knockout reaction is actually pretty damn great as it adds proper consistency by her acknowledging being bonked on the head. 100% should already be in the game.

The ultimatum from Halsin on the other hand although is super interesting and gives further insight into Minthara as a person, ends up terribly clashing against Halsin's signature wisdom by making him act unreasonably stubborn and outright hypocritical considering he forgives Kagha (even ends up quoting her).

I wish Larian would stop cutting out entire scenes and plots, but revise them and put them back into the game. It makes perfect sense that Halsin would have an issue with Minthara, so just by making him act more reasonable along with an option to persuade him to stay would entirely save the scene and give some necessary development and consistency for both characters.

Thank you so much for sharing these videos. The knockout reaction dialogue would have been great to have, as it brings things full circle. I think it should be implemented since the content already exists.

+1 I'd rather the scenes not get needlessly cut.

I love Minthara. During my last playthrough, after I got to recruit her in Act 2, she ended up in my party 90% of the time even though I was playing neutral. She has so much funny dialogue, and is your greatest supporter if you're doing an evil run. I'd like to see her built up to a level that's at least more on par with most of the others. She deserves more.

The ultimatum will always be very empty and flat,it really doesn't force the player to make any tough choices. On that type of run players have made the active choice to knock out Minthara in order to recruit her later, while Halsin is someone who joins no matter what you do. It's basically Halsin threatening to leave a party he wasn't even invited to in the first place. If you re-unite Thaniel and Oliver before rescuing Minthara from Moonrise, you don't need Halsin anymore to finish the Shadowcurse quest, and you get another druid anyway.

Good runs have an excess of companions anyway, losing one (which also has no relevance to any plots in act 3) is not a big deal (evil runs however, could really use another companion). So I'd rather have those scenes added and accept the slightly hypocritical writing and losing Halsin for a bit more Minthara content.

I can understand why the Halsin dialogue was not included. He comes over as a big hypocrit, bacause what he says about Minthara and the drow is exactly how Kagha considered the Tieflings.

He also shows a very apparent lack of understanding of nature and animals when he makes the reference that a viper cannot escape it's true nature, since vipers are not aggressive at all, unless threatened. So if he means to say that Minthara is like a viper, that means she is very unlikely to strike unless you force her to. They are no more harmful than bears, and he is obviously perfectly fine with bears.

Druid being bad at druiding...