Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Patch 6 Destroyed Player Agency with Astarion

Karlach's expression is actually still in the game, but depends on the body type of the Tav. I noticed that my BT3 character is happy and cheeky in the Karlach kiss, while my BT1 and 2 characters look upset. I don't have a BT4 character to test if it's the same for them.


This is only true for Lae'zel, Astarion and Minthara though (and it makes sense for their characters). The others start out a lot tamer: I like that they mixed it up. (I know you put a disclaimer, but I just wanted to mention it)


I am still holding out hope that they will change the facial expressions and that this was just a pr-stunt gone wrong (considering they used the Astarion/Gale-kiss for their patch 6 promotion). These kisses came out in the same patch that gave us the possibility to finally reign supreme together with AA when taking over the Netherbrain. Considering the new ending we got and that we can be an evil power couple during the epilogue party I don't believe they were aiming to push for the abusive narrative or wanted to punish the player.

I'm also reluctantly optimistic about the new evil endings. They would not say that "evil players will like them" if something bad would happen to our characters.

I worry about just creating the options of gentle & rough kiss options. Larian needs to still fix the player's face because again, if we then ASK for a rough kiss, WHY ARE WE SCARED OR MAD?!?!?!?!?

I just don't want them to take a shortcut and not fix the main problem.

Yes, choosing between "gentle" and "rough" would be the best option. And a change in facial expressions, of course.


Lae'zel surprised me specifically (she was the first to suggest it). I wanted to ask her to stay in the camp, but in the end I ran away from her, I never asked her to stay, because I forgot what I wanted. From the third approach I only recovered from my surprise. But she is a githyanki, it is normal for them, for her character, too, in general, fits. And then, the rest of them feel like saying, "Hey, I'm actually already dating Astarion". It feels like Tav and Astarion are hiding their relationship for some reason, even though Astarion never asked for it. I first decided in my headcanon that the theme of freedom, not belonging to anyone, was very important to him, so you can't say about him, "He's my boyfriend", and you only have to fend off everyone else by keeping the relationship secret. After I found out that he originally needed protection and got into a relationship for that reason, even that headcanon broke down, since in this case there is no benefit for him to hide the relationship with the companion leader, on the contrary, it would make sense to announce it to ward off the competition, or at least not prevent Tav from announcing their relationship. But the clue is simple - the game has a "second place" to fuck someone else, the script just doesn't take into account that the lecherous Tav can only want one particular body. You a priori want to do triangles and "choose between the two". Even then, when the relationship gets to a serious level, it's implied that you want to add bear sex to it.


Yes, with Astarion, the connection and attraction to him starts to be felt even before he comes to seduce Tav, from the moment he bites so exactly... And how he reveals himself is just soul-turning and heart-stopping. And then there's such brazen bullying, spoiling the plot and humiliating the player who gave their whole heart to this dark romance.


Yes, it did, yes, it did. And, in general, it looks quite intentional. It seems to me that a good studio that respects its players, after that fall scandal, would have fired such an author, or at least transferred them to another job - on the NPS, on some novels with these very, already at everyone's throat sitting "healthy relationships". Will should have a "healthy relationship", and Astarion is a complex character, there should be a competent dynamic of "dark romance" with understanding of Astarion and the players who choose him. Funny, I never would have thought before that someday when I would hear the term "healthy relationship" I would automatically have an "eaten lemon" expression on my face. They seem to have ruined not only Astarion's romance novel, but even the very idea of a "healthy relationship" by associating the concept with delusional and hysterical "moralists" on the internet.


I had this fantasy of deleting the parting line (I accidentally fell into it once after fighting Ansur without saving), and, like, if between kissing and this unnecessary (needed only to admire how Astarion swears, except maybe) and "dangerous" line would be "insurance" in the form of a line about kneeling.... You could make a cup of tea, lean back in your chair and relax and "choose kisses", not really looking closely at the screen, because even if you miss, you will hit the "knees", it's insurance.

But yes, it's unlikely to be done, besides, you need Astarion himself to tell us to kneel, the main thing is to change Tav's facial expressions and give an option for those who want, for example, to keep the previous kiss. In principle, in the future, probably mods can make some interesting modified variants of kisses, like bite without repulsion.


They fixed the batons, though. Now the batons won't be a problem.

Interesting, I got this impression from Lae'zel (yes, it does make sense for her), Gale, Wyl and Halsin; they all seemed very thirsty in my playthroughs, even though I had very few interactions with any of them besides Lae'zel!
Astarion didn't let me romance him the first time round, as I said, I had to work for it, finding out how to get his approval while still playing the way I wanted.



I'm in agreement here. I think the player character's face needs to be changed.

Stephen Rooney has left Larian.



I can only say a huge thank you to Stephen for creating the most adorable vampire in all the worlds! <3

We will follow his work further. I can say with certainty that I will buy any game with Stephen Rooney in the script without looking, I will run to pre-order it, in any setting and from any studio. If in the case of Larian I had a certain fear that someone would start interfering in his work again, now I don't have to worry about that - hardly any other studio will conduct such an unusual experiment as adding a fanfic writer as a "co-writer" to a real experienced genius screenwriter. Sad, a little, of course, because that faint, barely alive hope that suddenly Larian management would listen to player complaints and Stephen would return to Astarion for at least a week, wave his magic pen and fix everything, is now completely dead. The dream that another studio will buy the rights to Astarion from Wizards, invite Stephen, and we can see Astarion in another game or even in BG4 in Stephen's original vision, fully and completely as he intended him to be, is perhaps too naive a dream. I'd give probably any money for such a game.

As for any possible improvements for Astarion in BG3, we should probably forget about that. Let's continue to demand that traumatizing content be removed from the game, if only so that other people don't get hurt and we too can play for a while longer. We have written many posts proving and arguing why what was shown instead of Astarion in patch 6 is absolutely wrong in terms of plot, logic, character's personality... And this is a different tale, a tale about how: "There was a charming vampire on Faerûn, and he had two daddies... And then there was a wicked stepmother, and one day one daddy left." No wicked stepmother is going to let us love a stepson, yes, love cannot be prevented, no one has that power, but to do anything to prevent him from wearing a crown, or to prevent us from touching him, she seems to be able to. The fairy godmother, it's a pity, will never appear in this fairy tale. Unless, when the gates to the magical world of modding finally open, you can try to look for a fairy there, donate to them and beg them to help the charming vampire with anything.

And I wish Stephen creative success from the bottom of my heart! I'm sure we'll be happy to see more games with his participation, and maybe there will even be a character in them, somewhat similar to our favorite Astarion...

I hope Stephen knows how much the fans of Astarion absolutely loved his creation for BG3. Many well wishes on his next adventure & writing career.

So back to the case of the changes in patch 6 issues, still waiting for feedback about our issues & suggestions in relation to the player agency & choices in the game.

I would like to add a few words about the importance of understanding their audience for game developers and authors. If we talk about the female audience of RPG games, it is clearly not limited to individuals squealing with joy at the prospect of "having two guys at the same time" or "kissing everyone in the camp". Such audience, of course, will come to the game with brothels and halsins, and will bring a certain amount of money to the developers' piggy bank, but this is not the RPG audience, RPG in its very essence implies the possibility of roleplaying, realism and immersion in the game world. You can give out content for "polyamorous" as much as you want, but it should not lead to humiliation and disregard for the feelings of those players for whom the characters you created represent something more than "pixel men for dating".

"I am more than a thing to be used" - I am reminded of these words of Astarion during his confession in the second act. Indeed, such a lively and beautifully written character, with such a voice and facial expressions (thanks to Neil's excellent voice acting), a face so realistic that the shots from the game with him are like photos of a living person, with his history, with his unique character, is it hard to imagine that part of the audience of players will love him and perceive him differently than a "pixel man for fun"? That there is a right to exist not only a superficial perception in the style of "pick this or that, click the mouse and see what happens"? That a game so realistic visually should also be realistic story-wise, the player came to an RPG, the player doesn't want to ride the rails, especially when those rails resemble a horror ride. We get on a wagon that says "For D/s audience", ok, if it helps Astarion and makes him happy, especially since the other wagon is painted in the colors of dreariness and the seats in it are painfully scalding. We ride along and scenes from the movie "Three Kinds of Domestic Violence" with us as the victim pop up in our faces. The D/s audience is also "delighted" - when you are presented with a "rapist and victim" story under the sauce of desired content, one can only "marvel" at the author's understanding of the audience.

It is normal when a player wants to give everything to their favorite character, when they want their favorite character to win, to be happy, the player has the right to change the worldview and not to bend to the "good" world, but to bend this world to Astarion. A player doesn't go into an RPG for feeling like a loser. A pathetic loser with a "crown on their head", who is applauded and admired by everyone, is, sorry, not for everyone. And a victim of violence - this is not suitable for anyone at all. Not everyone, alas, is capable of superficial perception and sexual objectification of "pixel men", of dutifully accepting "moral lessons" and of eating the traumatizing "cycle of abuse" nonsense when they buy AAA-class RPGs.

Dear screenwriters, please respect your audience as well. Astarion was probably not originally conceived to put a "toxic white male" image on him to satisfy the dissatisfied life of particularly aggressive "feminists" (in quotes, because these individuals who demand more violence and insults for other women have nothing to do with real feminists). If players respect and love the character you've created, they deserve to be able to play with it the way they want. Players have the right to see Astarion happy, to see Astarion, not a fake sadist in his place.

We are all waiting for patch 7. Please fix the "kisses".

I agree with the request for fixing these kisses. Bare minimum please fix the victim faces.

On the discussion of a feminist lens, I disagree that it's to appease feminists to make him abusive. In fact, I think it's quite the opposite. Every female companion is catered to the whims of male players the moment they cry foul. Yet when it comes to a male character who's non traditionally masculine, and is hugely popular among an audience of women/queer players, only WE must be taught a lesson. Through abuse, no less.

I find that really problematic. The idea the women and queer folk must be taught moral lessons while everyone else is free to run off and wipe out groves and rewrite tragic character ends is...yikes.

This lens came about because the subjects I mentioned are also actively attacking AA with their slogans about "abusers", "defenders of abusers" and other remarks... You are also completely right, and on this side are either Astarion haters who don't want to see him strong, powerful and happy, or those who take pleasure in humiliating women/homosexuals.
And I've seen those too, and at first I thought about the issue the same way you did, then the "feminists vs abusers" came into view, my goodness...(oh, if only those two bunch would get behind Astarion and get on with each other). Besides, on the internet you can never tell if the person in front of you is an activist or a troll/bully who has studied the "subject of the dispute" for the sake of "lulz", they all express themselves in about the same way.

It turned out that this "moral lesson", taught in the form of showing violent scenes, concretely stirred up a horde of bullies of all stripes, aggressive "activists" and so on.
The scenes are so provocative and violent that they serve as a trigger for psychological trauma in people, upset players, make players into victims, and like flies on honey, the bullers fly to it. The fact that there is "morality" involved here, some "bad act" in the game (damn crazy, I never would have thought before that such a thing was possible in this day and age!) kind of gives all possible aggressors an excuse to attack.

I think a decent studio, seeing that their provocative content is causing the game to become a bully field, should fix it as soon as possible.
Bullying is a network offense. It's bad for both players and the reputation of the company itself.

Why do players get treated like this? On release, in the Tav turn scene, the player could choose whether to be gentle or rough, and there was no talk of frightened faces at all. Tav pressed "yes" several times.
At release, Larian realized that if people choose to play with an evil character like Mintara, they might for example be uncomfortable with touching the neck area, choking - we can't talk about what Tav likes or dislikes. That's why there was another option at release. And then someone decided 8 months later, on February 14, that all AA fans need a kneeling strangle in repeated kissing scenes, with no choice in the matter.
With a scared and disgruntled face - which goes against the very concept of kissing.
And then people write, "please don't change anything, it must be terrible, it's an evil evily story, and an important story about abuse, it's a shock that people are still struggling with reality"
Yeah, so in a romance with the only evil male in the game, my characters (which I also put something personal into) is made an abuse victim, and also a fool, since Tav apparently doesn't understand what's going on, since Tav has after terrified kisses and 6 months of abuse there are answers:

"Glad to share the everything \abuse\ with you"



But the bigger fool is probably me since I thought it was a good romance with an evil character where the "kindred evil spirit" and loving dynamic, ally and lover, for Du and Tav as well.

Yes, I think it was extremely insensitive of Larian to put choking in without warning and without giving the player options to avoid seeing it.


I think you have got to the heart of the issue here. The people wanting to keep these animations seem to like them because they don't approve of Dark Romance as a genre and because they think people (mainly women) who do like it need a dose of reality. They really seem to believe that anyone who choses to romance A.Astarion is going to go out and look for someone similar in real life (like high elves and vampires actually exist? :P), that we'll make bad choices if we aren't shown (through the medium of a game of all things!) that bad guys really aren't a great prospect when choosing a real life partner.
It is sexist and it is condescending.


I agree with you, it is really problematic. And Marielle is right too, what we are seeing from some of the people supporting these animations does amount to bullying. They don't care that they are triggering people in fact, they seem to be enjoying the fact that other players are getting hurt.

This is a fantasy. In real life I tend to like a guy who treats me right, can cook and who does his own laundry and in real life I'm nothing like my Tav, but this isn't real life. This is supposed to be escapism and fun. A.Astarion was huge fun, until Larian pulled this 'you can have him but you won't enjoy him' stuff with the kiss animations.

Games have always been my safe-space, the place I've gone to when real life gets rough. I really object to having somebody else's morality and real-life trauma shoved in my face like this. I'm an adult, and a paying customer, I'd like to be treated like one.

When you first meet him, Astarion is already waving a red flag and flashing lights like a Christmas tree. He literally holds a knife to your neck, which already tells you that as a partner, this is a questionable choice.

And yet, it's one of the most interesting and well-developed characters with a story. The only male character with questionable morals. This is an interesting character.

He's so fanservicey that it's questionable on the studio's part to intentionally treat their brainchild this way(I hope it was a mistake though). To teach any moral lessons and bend the player to a certain choice is a strange decision (by whomever it's accepted by). I haven't seen anyone else have as much artwork as this character, regardless of whether it's Spawn or Ascendant (and I don't even know who has more).

Totally agree. This is the most egregious and tactless moment in these traumatizing scenes.


It goes against the concept of kissing, and the concept of our own character, and Astarion's character, and everything that Astarion and Tav/DU have bonded over before, and script logic, and common sense.

If the "reality" is that there are no restrictions on introducing traumatizing content into a game 6 months after release and making a mockery of the end user, and being able to just wipe out a story that many players have grown to love, then it's worth fighting against. I don't want to have a reality where, after buying an initially excellent and great game, after having managed to love and become attached to a great character and game world, I suddenly get a serving of sadism and nastiness. Content producers should realize that such things are unacceptable in games. To the shocked fans of violence, I can say that if they like this genre so much, there should be a niche for it - if I accidentally, without reading the reviews, bought some author's novel, and there I would be met with an "evil important story about abuse", I would just try to get my money back, and next time I would be more careful and would not buy anything before reading the reviews on it. But if someone likes it - let them, there is a sea of games for all tastes. But BG3 is an RPG, it's a high-budget RPG, games of this class have to be of high quality, we buy the game because we believe it's a decent studio, plus (and this is the most important thing) the game had early access, the game had a release where there was nothing like it. And it was in this form, before the abrupt "change of course" that it won the Game Awards. That said, for other players, the game is still a AAA-class RPG, and only a certain portion of the audience has to suffer, get traumatized, and feel like fools for buying this. It's not just a " evil story" anymore, it's some kind of fraudulent story.


Those who don't approve of Dark Romance can go about their romance, and stay away from other players. There's Gale, Will, and they can torture Astarion all they want and keep him from ascending. I'm not going to torture Astarion for any reason, I was lucky enough to get through the game to the end with patch 5 (but it's still insanely unfortunate because I want to go through a second time with the DU, record scenes with Astarion as a memento, get a skipped scene, etc), even if I hadn't gotten through by this point, I'd still get to his happy ending for him, his "evil" ending under the sun with true freedom, whatever it costs me.

And in real life, those who tried to meddle in my relationships or insult my significant other got a sufficient "dose of reality" themselves. Enough not to ask for more. And the game makes a humiliated victim out of me in a rather interesting way - through a cut-scene, with no possibility of resistance or opposition. It doesn't work like that in life, sorry. In life, no one is going to let them "fix" themselves. And in life, bad consequences are often received just by those who try to "fix the bad guy". So if they consider what was shown in the kisses instead of Astarion to be "realistic", they should definitely add a nice massacre scene for an embittered and depressed Astarion, left by the spawn forever, because how is he supposed to hate such a Tav if he is so cruel to the one who helped him and was always there for him?


Yes, I too have always considered games to be a safe place to relax. Especially when the job is responsible and we have to deal with real problems in life, we want to relax in the game, the game should not be hostile. I never bought depressing genre specific games, I don't need that, I need a good RPG where I can do well for myself and my favorite character, get a dose of happiness, not anger and frustration.

"Christmas tree" - I really liked that comparison! Festive Astarion! <3

I really like the first meeting with Astarion. He's understandable - Astarion sees the Tav as a threat, because he's seen the Tav walking freely in the Illithid ship. On first playthrough, it's curious and unusual and arouses interest, and on repeat playthrough, when you know what's coming next, there's a certain amount of romance in that scene. Plus, our Tav and DU are strong and fearless characters, and what for some is a questionable choice, for these characters can be a choice that is very appealing and totally conscious. So why the hell are our characters being made into helpless and pathetic victims?


That's for sure. I collect Astarion's artwork and lucky angles, I have a huge amount accumulated, and yet there are a lot of new ones popping up all the time on the resources where I look for them, I don't have time to look at them all...

To be honest I think at the start of the game ALL the initial companions are questionable. They all (except Lae'zel) keep secrets, 2 of them attack you on sight (Astarion and Lae'zel),
one of them is a devils pawn - if you are a sorceror you can ask about his sending stone eye in the very first camp convo with him and he outright lies about it, one of them is an ambulatory bomb, one worships an evil goddess, one is a vampire spawn, the list goes on. The later ones are at least not holding any secret agendas you are unaware of.
Don't think Astarion holding a knife to your throat when he first meets you is anything unusual given he initially believes you are one of his abductors.
I've been lucky (or not depending on point of view) in my last couple of playthrough where he admits to being a vampire up front with no prompts and no camp scene so he isn't always a lying sod I love his reaction after he tells you and you say "Well yes. Obviously". He's totally flustered - comically so.

The thing with any of them is that they evolve (well except Wyll, he really had some poor writing) and become different throughout the game. Astarion is the one companion who is always in my party simply for the snark and the chatter to the others (plus hes just better at stealth and archery and lockpicking initially), in Act 1 and by the time I hit Act 2 I can't move past him to anyone else because none of the others strike the chord with me at all. I've tried a few times to pick someone else, then I'm on full stealth mode going somewhere and have to click on Astarion and he responds with "hello you" and that's the end of any other romance, I've always been a sucker for a good voice.

This does not mean I'm an idiot and can't tell he's supposed to be the 'evil' choice. My rl husband is gentle and wouldn't dream of raising a hand against me. But this is a fantasy game not real life. Like I've said before Astarion was never evil towards me unless I provoked him (even then it was just words), now he is and its not supported by anything surrounding these episodes. I have no intention of upgrading from my rolled back 5 version until the changes are sorted out and I can go back to actually role playing my dark romance as I choose to do, not how some substitute writer thinks I should.

It's if you go straight down to the dungeon before the bite, he decides to admit it?
I actually like that he's a lying asshole. And it's okay that he doesn't immediately tell some bums off the street that he's a vampire.


I didn't mean to imply that if Astarion is "evil" then what they did in patch 6 is ok. No, it's not. I'm not happy with this patch either. It's horrible.

Astarion isn't exclusively for evil playthroughs. I don't see a problem with evil characters though. But he's not like Will, Gale, or Halsin. He runs perfectly fine in a good walkthrough, throwing in the occasional "-1 Astarion disapproves" and that's it. Let him bite you, give him the book, and mock the goblins. A man will want to give himself without waiting for the party.

Cut out the grove and Will and Carlagh will leave you. Gale must be persuaded to stay. Astarion will clap his hands happily.
Save the grove, Astarion will little grumbles, but that's it.
Kill the bard, everyone will tell you off like a schoolboy, except the elf.
Take Baal and Minsk and Jaheira will drop out. Astarion, if he is in a relationship with you, will say, I am with you to the end.
Save everything and everyone, Astarion just as calmly runs around and occasionally rumbles unhappily. The most loyal character.

What I like best is that his moral compass doesn't change much throughout the journey. No matter how you go through the game, he disapproves of altruism, he approves of deceit and murder. (Feeding an orphan and getting approved, I don't know what it was that made him soften, but giving money to beggars he already disapproves of).
Staying Spawn, he will kill people, just the right ones. He'll punish the spawn's very severely if he's left in charge of them.
Lord has fun with random assassinations and intrigue.

He's still a great asshole no matter what.

I adore him when he's lying lol. I don't know how I got the confession, I actually enjoy the bite night scene cos I love Astarion when he's caught out.

And yeah his moral compass doesn't change much, it does soften a bit especially towards kids (I think its that they are genuinely helpless and he's not so sure that adults ever are) cos although he doesn't want Yenna in the camp he still approves when you give her food. By act 3 he almost never disapproves of things I do even though I don't think I change how I react to situations very much. I don't know why but I imagine its got more to do with how he views you personally than what he thinks about your actions, so if it doesn't affect him personally he cares less about it.

Thing is the way I role play I can't blame Astarion for ascending, I can only 'blame' me for helping him do what he asked me to. So I never really feel he's the evil one (and I don't care about all those spawn that I don't know to feel guilty over what I do to them in any case). Or at least we are both culpable if anyone has to be - My soul is deffo not clean and bright in this game after all I kill all the goblins as well and all the people at Moonrise even though they are victims of a cult parasite telling them what to think _ Astarion ain't the only one with sins lol. I always think of him as morally grey rather than outright evil and I find he tends to approve of decisive actions and absolutely anything which gives him self determination. So I always agree with him in conversations - and then do whatever I was going to do anyway rofl

So I role play the vampire bride and love it, perfect dark romance or at least it was till patch 6 landed. I role play heavily, so I know my characters story back 3 generations I know what Astarion and I are going to get up to after the game ends etc for probably a good 20 or so years actually probably longer cos we are several generations of owl bears and several generations of puppies and Yennas own kids (yep I went that deep I love role playing) and patch 6 ruined it - so I rolled back.

I wanted to get that scene with the next playthrough, I read, but without looking at specific points, to avoid spoilers, that when playing an evil character to Astarion's approval, he himself confesses pretty quickly, as he thinks you'll understand his vampire nature. But the bite night scene is also one I really love. In the case of Astarion's voluntary confession, can we suggest that he bite ourselves? Otherwise evil Durge would be a very sad evil Durge who can't feed Astarion...


Oh yeah... I can't even go to another game out of sadness over having someone else around instead of Astarion. Hopefully this will pass with time.


Exactly. It's a fantasy game, and it's just ridiculous to compare the game to real life. Well, at the very least, I know that in real life I have a full set of lines, virtually no bugs (I hope) and my facial expressions are entirely my own. Games are conditional, even in the most wonderful scenario we choose the most appropriate line or action possible, we can talk about "roleplaying ourselves" if at least the general direction/meaning of the utterance coincides with what we would like to express. The substitute writer has set a very strict framework for Tav's behavior, not even a framework, but only one option under which it is possible to save the romance. We will never know how Astarion will behave with Tav, who responded with something more sincere and real in the dialog, with Tav, who is ready to give everything, but in no way " degrades themselves " in this love. Unless neural networks take a step forward in their development, and it is possible to upload Astarion's script and character into a neural network and talk to him, then only then can we talk about any approximation to "real life". Conditionally.

But even with all these set limits, when Astarion thinks Tav wants his body and likes to degrade themselves, he's really never been evil. Worth going through all the red flags and scares with submission, pets, and other fun moments (which have long been a "peppercorn" and a reason to have fun), we get a wonderful romance with a charming, playful, and lively Astarion who draws attention to himself, attracts attention to his precious persona, loves, is very much attached, and doesn't want to let go in the slightest. The only argument made by proponents of the Astarion-abuser idea in the story is "When Tav wants freedom..." Uh, freedom from what? From happiness, from joy, from the most precious and beloved person? Well, if someone threateningly says to me: "Don't you dare jump from the roof upside down, or I'll get very angry", well, I won't take offense, I didn't seem to intend to, you can consider me an "obedient girl" after that. Personally, I separate "freedom from" and "freedom for". "Freedom from", from something that dislikes, oppresses, makes life worse (such as the arbitrariness of the author's vision that turns the game into a mockery) is one understanding of freedom, and for those who have this understanding of freedom associated with Ascended Astarion's romance, there are these very "evil" lines. For them, such a character doesn't fit. And it doesn't have to fit everyone, there are other characters. But if you don't like something and someone else does, it doesn't mean you have to strangle that "someone" and punch them in the face to make them realize exactly what they're supposed to dislike. But with "freedom for", for happiness, for joy, for fullness of life, I was perfectly fine with that until patch 6. And that's why I demand freedom now. It's not a crime to demand freedom, is it? Or is it?

Or, "if you are afraid, and do as he wants, then of course he will be satisfied." What's there to be afraid of? I'm not afraid, Tav isn't afraid of anything at all, now that there's not much to be afraid of, Astarion is fine, he's no longer as vulnerable as he used to be to the 'good world'. I chose exclusively the lines I wanted to choose, I didn't provoke Astarion simply because I would never do that, I don't want to, those lines are "not mine" and I don't like them. I can do it without saving to admire an angry Astarion, or watch a video of him yelling at someone else, because I want to see my Astarion happy, not test him. I don't do a lot of things in my life, not because I'm afraid, but simply because I don't need to. If I don't want to go skydiving, it doesn't mean I'm a coward, I just don't have the desire or the need to do it, and why should there be a desire? And why should there be a desire to fight with Astarion? I don't have to desire something according to someone else's concepts.

Astarion is not an "abuser", Astarion is an owner. They are different things. These concepts tend to be lumped together by those for whom a possessive person is a completely inappropriate partner, who really care about being able to end a relationship at any time, change partners, have sex with someone else. Well great, everyone is different, I have my own "red flags" for not getting into a relationship with such a polyamorous character, and if there was such a companion in the game (I mean, if he was attractive and interesting like Astarion, I know there's Halsin in the game, that's different), I wouldn't demand to make him monogamous and faithful to me. I would just leave him out, since that kind of relationship hurts, and he will sooner or later betray my Tav, or find a relationship with my Tav stuffy, it's just not my character, I don't need him, and he doesn't need me. And everything is fine with Astarion, I know that he won't betray me either, he won't leave me because he's bored, he won't start a harem of spawn. He won't, because it doesn't fit his character, no matter what "new lines" are attributed to him. If Astarion, even Ascended, goes to a brothel for Tav's sake (which is very sad, and after watching this video on YouTube I really want to burn down the brothel) even though it makes him feel bad, I think he will be able not to cheat on Tav and it won't be something traumatic for him, unlike the brothel.


Yes, and just with a good first time pass with no spoilers, this is a really gripping romance. First he's Mr. Disapproving, I didn't know what to make of it (the experience of BG2, where evil companions can quietly betray and leave if they don't like something, made me nervous). Then there's "night under the stars", the first "heart-to-heart" conversation, when I tried to tease him with the most flirtatious lines, unsuspecting of his true intentions. The bite, the book, killing Gandrel (I didn't even bother to look into it since he was hunting Astarion, I found out his story later). And suddenly, out of the blue, Mr. Disapproving calls for a date! I didn't expect this from him at all, I missed his charming seduction in response to the line, "I still don't belong to you," because I didn't want to say that at all and went straight to kissing him so as not to scare him off. The breaking of the fourth wall when, when asked, "How did you figure that out?" (after Astarion states that he noticed how much Tav likes him), Astarion replies: "During the bite." Astarion, how did you guess that it was after that scene that I decided not to romance anyone in this game if things didn't work out with you? (I knew he might say no at the party). Oh, and during my conversation with Astarion after killing Gandrel, I rigidly decided that I would protect him from any villains who had something against vampires (well, one particular vampire, that's for sure). And breaking the fourth wall again in the second act, it turns out Astarion was seducing for the sake of protection, as if he himself was thinking the same thing at this point (though he could have taken it easy). And somewhere closer to the third act, the approval reaches a beautiful 100, and Tav bypasses the beggars, because it's a shame not to give them money, and Astarion disapproved... Although by that time, after the ritual, Tav is clearly no longer good, but something like chaotic-neutral, so now it's okay not to give to beggars.

This is the best romance ever. And how badly I want to rip off that sadistic sticker that overrides and destroys everything. To just peel it off and put it back the way it was.

Day 54 of just asking Larian to change the victim faces, or at least address the controversy they've started with them.

Curbing a toxic portion of their audience who are telling women/queer players they need to learn a lesson through abuse should be a priority.

A simple, "Yes/No, we do/don't intend to teach a minority portion of our fanbase a lesson through abuse" would be enough.

Please take some accountability. The lack of oversight is hurting real people. I would never have bought this game if I knew Larian was going to include DV themes as a surprise mid playthrough. It's a tactless way to discuss a sensitive topic.

The silence + the lack of fixing it is an issue.

I have to respond and reinforce what you said because you're absolutely correct. There are too many fans of "spawn Astarion" who assume that he is an innocent, well-adjusted, goody two-shoes by the end of the game. While he does progress and develop as a character, into a good person, he is still flawed, and the goody goodies who want to fix Astarion delude themselves into thinking he ends up as completely good. These same people think he's sweet and innocent in even act 1, because they have to overlook his darkness to justify their love for him. They can delude themselves this way because Larian makes spawn Astarion that open-ended at the end of the game. Larian did this with AA too, which let people who love AA be in harmony with him. Now Larian is forcing a narrative on Ascended Astarion that he's always abusive, but the spawn Astarion fans still get to delude themselves into thinking spawn Astarion is always good.

Astarion is not a healthy relationship whether as a spawn or as ascended. He is a vampire spawn with issues. People are his food. He likes blood and in turn likes killing. He likes money (and taking it), he's vain, he likes violence, and the only two people he cares about in the world are himself and the person he's romancing. He doesn't give a shit about the other companions. Any evil character (I'm not saying spawn Astarion is evil, but he could easily do evil things) can be nice and feel a bit of comradery, which Astarion does feel towards the other companions, but he is nowhere near as caring about them as the other companions are about each other.