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Joined: Feb 2024
stranger
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stranger
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So I've been playing as an oath of vengeance paladin, and have been having a good time. Naturally, my main goal (aside from kill Orin and Gortash) in act III was to kill Raphael. Of course, you can only do it in the House of Hope, and I had to bait him out by stealing the Orphic Hammer. Of course, I've done this before when I was playing a duergar, so naturally, my Tav would not want a tentacled freak anywhere near them. I found Orpheus to be annoying - dog, I just freed you, why are you suddenly complaining? But nevertheless, completed the game with him and he went off to fight Vlaakith. Then, I sided with The Emperor for multiple playthroughs (including my current one), and decided that this time, I'm going to kill Raphael again. Stole the hammer to bait him out (also emptied his vault, naturally), freed Hope, fought Raphael, and went home. Of course, The Emperor is mad at me, I have no problem with that. I would be too if I was in his shoes.

But it's the fact that there was no option to say, "Dog, I took the hammer to free Hope kill Raphael, I have no intention of using it." I think that if there was a way to persuade him you weren't going to use it, OR even lie to him saying you are not going to use it, would add more value. Just because I stole the hammer, does not mean I am going to use it. Even a little class specific, "[Paladin, Cleric, other classes dedicated to being good] I just wanted to kill Raphael." Or maybe for classes not Proficient with the Hammer, there could be an option such as, "I have no clue how to actually use it."

Of course, I think it'd be fun to lie to him, or be genuine, which could also tie into The Emperor and Orpheus being forced to work together. Sworn enemies? Yes. A common goal? Most certainly. You could convince The Emperor to release his hold on the prince, then persuade or intimidate Orpheus to join your cause. I mean, if you can persuade Yurgir to kill himself, and then persuade him back to your side, certainly you can force those two to work together. Neither of them like the Elder Brain, and neither of them like Vlaakith. A githyanki prince and a mind flayer working together? Probably something you'd only see in a sitcom, where Tav/Durge is forcing them to for the greater good, but still.

I know it's in Larian's humour to make those two bicker like a divorced couple.

I think some more options for why you grabbed the Hammer would be incredibly good for role playing. After all, this is a RPG, and my paladin hates to break peoples trust. I mean, I can headcannon that they persuaded The Emperor that they meant no harm, they only wish to kill Raphael. It's just not as fun.

Those are my thoughts, sorry if it is that cohesive or doesn't make sense. :P


Imagine yourself with the same strength. The same intelligence. The same devastating beauty.
Joined: Aug 2023
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journeyman
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It's not stupid, I have thought many times that it is absurd not to have that option, you can go steal the rest of the objects and find Hope and want to save her, why then not have the option of telling your ally and lover?

Joined: Feb 2024
stranger
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stranger
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Who wouldn't want to raid a devil's vault *and* rescue Hope? I'm certain The Emperor would understand in that case, as he mentions that (if you saved the grove) it was a good deed, and further if you save Arabella and Dame Aylin, he mentions them too at the beginning of act 3. Not to mention, it's clear The Emperor has some disdain for Raphael, as he refers to him as a cockroach. So, why is he upset that you killed him? (Not really upset, but I thought the line "you must think you are rather clever for killing a devil" was so unnecessary.)


Imagine yourself with the same strength. The same intelligence. The same devastating beauty.
Joined: Oct 2020
old hand
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Do you actually have to steal the hammer ? I didn't tryh it, but would guess that if you steal anything from Raphaël's house (like the giant strength gloves) and try to leave, you'll have to fight him.

Joined: Feb 2024
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Originally Posted by ldo58
Do you actually have to steal the hammer ? I didn't tryh it, but would guess that if you steal anything from Raphaël's house (like the giant strength gloves) and try to leave, you'll have to fight him.

I am not sure if stealing items from the
hidden stoarge room, like Mol's (or your's) contract from triggers him but...

.. You can steal the gloves of strength ond amulet of health without any need of fighting Raphael if done correctly, Raphael fight is triggered from when only Orphic Hammer is stolen, that is to say I just don't know about the spoilers if that is included as well.

Correct way that works is casting a darkness spell on the artifact and going invisible, all the while enemies red cones for indicating their visuals also stays far away from you during thats process and you have to be very quick about disarming the trap but never tried the Indiana Jones style.

Joined: Feb 2024
stranger
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stranger
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Stealing items from the storage rooms does not trigger him if I recall correctly. As
Mol gets mad if you kill Raphael rather than just stealing her contract. And if you steal your contract I think there's an epilogue scene about it.


Imagine yourself with the same strength. The same intelligence. The same devastating beauty.

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