Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Halsin's motivation

I have a question about Halsin's behavior in romance mode. Maybe it was already explained, but I didn't come across it. Now, why would a man like him reject Tav at a party after defeating the goblins? Tav is clearly persuading him to do what Halsin likes best. However, he gets a wall. Later, throughout the second act, also celibacy. Did Halsin take any vows of chastity, and overcoming the shadow curse annulled them?

There is no story reason for it. Halsin was never intended to be a companion, hence "the wall" in act 1 and 2.
But some people thirsted constantly for Halsin sex during EA that Larian decided that they could score easy points, especially as sex became the main selling point of the game when everything else failed.
So the story was rewritten and Halsin became a companion in act 3 (he was supposed to stay in act 2) and as only character trait they gave him "polygamy bear". But Larian did not rewrite the old and already finished content where Halsin is not sex crazed.

During the party he gives me the impression of just being happy to have a nice, chill evening under the sky again after having been imprisoned, low-key tortured and then having to deal with matters surrounding Kaga and grove politics upon his return.

I don't have the feeling that Halsin is crazy about sex. Tav was more attacked by characters like Lae'zel or Karlach. Halsin seems to be slightly restrained in proposing a closer acquaintance if we compare it to Lae'zel, for example.

I think that refers to him enthusiastically asking if he can join you and your partner in the brothel.

Right now I�m almost at the end of a run romancing Halsin only. I don�t really find him sex crazed either. My impression is that there�s the thing Anska talks about (free after being captured by the goblins). But also the fact that he seems to have a lot on his plate with the grove and the curse. He seems to be feeling the weight of his responsibility in all this. So I guess he is quite preoccupied. Plus, he gets to know you better that way, most of all if you help him. I didn�t feel like it was badly conveyed, all in all.

To be honest, I don't understand what this perception of Halsin as a sexual predator is all about. For me, he is liberated and likes the sexual sphere, but I don't see him as crazy or obsessed at all. His reticence towards Tav is striking, especially when you learn about his past and the fact that he had a lot of partners.

Well, maybe I�ll be wrong, but from what I�ve seen in comments here and there in various places of the internet, I think it�s just that some had difficulties with certain things where he was concerned. For example, even I had a problem on past runs where he would act as if you had flirted with him at the party, when I hadn�t. I think it was just a bug problem or something, but still. Then the fact that he is the polyamory option, which might not be to everyone�s liking. The fact that some people didn�t like him interjecting when talking to the Drows in the brothel (and subsequent small drop in approval for certain love interests when refused there). Like he would be trying too much to get in people�s knickers, in people�s relationship. I mean, I can get that kind of reaction, I guess. But for myself, personally, I don�t feel like that. In other runs I said I was not interested and that was it. I had him in my party when talking with the Drows when I was romancing Astarion, and it was not a problem because my character was not even interested in what was on offer. Which is maybe quite anecdotal, since based only on my experience with the game. I think the mechanics of the game and such play a role in the short comings of companions and other characters too, so I also try to keep that in mind. I liked him within the romance, or as a possible companion elsewhere.

His and other character's romance flags were bugged for a while, which led to him acting like the player had always romanced him, and a lot of players did not enjoy this. This was fixed already, it's actually very easy to shut him down if you don't want to romance him, and once you do he doesn't insist. I was quite hesitant going into act2 and 3 because I had also heard from all sides that he was a sex pest. Imagine my surprise when not only was this not the case, but that it took me deliberately talking about partnering for it to even come up, he seemed very reasonable and open with his offer, and didn't push if rejected.

I think the actual dislike comes from people not wanting any polyam stuff in their game, it's not something everyone enjoys, granted, but the reaction to it has been a bit over-the-top, imo. There's been a similar reaction to Shadowheart's flirty comments about other npcs that she still makes while you are romancing her.

I am not sure if the flags were really bugged as it was stated in the notes for patch 6 that a platonic path was added for him, indicating that there wasn't one before. Previously he just assumed the two of you were on flirting terms, even if you never did flirt with him before. He for example always assumed you had asked him about previous lovers, even if you hadn't - though that might have been a bug.

The whole brothel situation is probably largely to blame for the sentiment that Halsin is sex crazed. Apart from him inserting himself into the orgy, his dialogue during it is also very cringe. Worse, while he insists that you make sure you settle things with your partner during the poly-proposal, he (same as the PC) simply goes along with how the orgy proceeds when the other participant is miserable, which also casts an unfavourable light on him and makes you question how sincere is usual more wholesome demeanour is.

My answer is that he is preoccupied with his fixation on the shadow curse and responsibilities as a leader. If you see things from his perspective, the grove almost completely fell apart and he later blames himself for not having the required leadership qualities. My interpretation is that he is a person who is very thoughtful and aware of things around him and he is processing what just happened and could have gone horribly wrong and realising that he needs to go back and fix the shadow curse to make things right.

After lifting the shadow curse he feels relieved and able to tend to his own needs and desires again and that's when he allows himself to get close with Tav and others again. Sure the whole brothel interaction kind of breaks this interpretation of him as thoughtful and aware, but I don't think that there is too much to read into the characters from that. It's cringy af and feels more like some teenagers One Direction fan fiction than some deep storytelling moment. His romance sex scene is honestly maybe the best in the game when it comes to communication and awareness. The way he seeks confirmation with words, eyes and body language and calmly leads Tav through it every step of the way is really well done. In contrast, his reaction at the brothel like some kid in a candy shop jumping in without any hesitation or tact feels like it's an entirely different person from the previous caring and sensitive character he has displayed.

Interpret things as you wish, but to me there is no conflict between his stoic rejection to letting Tav close to him in act 1 and the shift in the later acts as the storytelling about his fixation with the mistakes in his past is there to explain it.

Like I said, I haven�t done the orgy with Halsin present (before and during) while romancing someone else. But, from comments and videos, I was under the impression that he was actually not inserting himself. Commenting and asking if you want more company, yes. But that if you said no that was it (for him) ? But yes, like a lot of dialogues in that setup (and more), it�s a bit cringe. And everyone (player character included) seems to be acting a bit unconcerned by a love interest and their problems there. If it goes well, that seems fine, otherwise it appears to lack a good deal of care and aftercare. I liked doing it with Halsin while in an exclusive relationship, because it flowed nicely. Otherwise it didn�t interest me much. From what I�ve seen, the whole thing is a bit cringe to me.

In my new game, he still acts as though I flirted with him at the tiefling party, which I purposely did not. I told him to take his own advice and relax. After the party, my character still has the "I'm sorry if I came off too forward" dialogue option, so obviously this hasn't been completely fixed.

I don't know the practical reasons for it, other than probably there was no time to animate a cutscene for this since he was a 'late addition'

My head cannon is that it's because he is being thoughtful and responsible, as a man his age, position, and with his experiences and outlook (As of act I and II) should be. He has offered to help with the tadpoles, and wants to lift the curse, and in a way he is making a deal with Tav/Durge and the gang, so sex might make it a conflict of interest. It's the only real chance he has had to do that in 100 years. Bringing sex into the mix with someone you don't know could produce unnecessary drama that would get in the way of those goals. He is very polite about it though, and doesn't come off as entirely uninterested. Plus I also think he genuinely wants Tav/Durge to go enjoy themselves, they did just help save the grove and Halsin knows that the coming trials will be difficult. He even says himself it may be the last time for a while everyone can just relax and have some fun, and he seems to genuinely want that for Tav/Durge. I do like how you can pick either having a drink or getting to know him without implying you want sex, you can end the convo after that and it will still count as a flirt I believe.

I like that he turns you down though, because I genuinely diddn"t want to jump into bed with him, I wanted to get to know him like I did the other companions. I like the slowish burn that comes from mainly me head cannoning away his lack of content. But this idea that he is catching feels while traveling and having to keep himself under control, really fed into the longing that was building up on my end as the player. It would have been FANTASTIC of they added little snippets after the party and up to the shadow lands. Just little cracks in his demeanor, showing he is getting interested as he gets to know Tav/Durge, when usually he gets so caught up in the task at hand (his words).

I NEED a Ferngullyesque A Dream Worth Keeping moment in the Underdark with him. Nothing too crazy, just a little sumthin.

@papercut_ninja, Halsin's romantic scene in my opinion is not only the best in BG3, it's the best I've seen in games in general. It was written by a voice actor playing Atarion, you can see a lot of talent.
@AmayaTenjo, in one game my Tav had an affair with Astarion, out of curiosity I checked the dialogue when Halsin proposes poly. I chose the option where Tav says that she is surprised that Halsin jumped out with it. To which Astarion said something like, "You must be joking, everything was already visible in the grove". So it seems that Tav has already charmed Halsin in the grove, which is very early.

I think Neil Newbon (the voice actor for Astarion) only directed the scene. But I agree that it�s a very good one, on many levels.

I mean, I can kind of understand that, all the Tavs/Durges are hot and would peak anyones interest as far as sex goes. But at the same time you barely talk to him even in the grove, so unless Halsin was legit only thinking about sex or it was just initial attraction then, idk maybe? My interest in him was initated at the party, I love the dialogue when you ask him for a drink, I just kind of assume it was the same for him and it develops from there. I also like what he says when you first tell him you want to get to know him. It gives the impression that Tav is being genuine, and he sounds genuine when he says there will be time for that. Its not until Tav says "I would *really* like to get to know you." Where hes all "Aah...*I see*.", as if he wasn't expecting a proposal for sex.

I honestly really hate the assumption that the PC is hot, even if the game dialogue supports it. XD

Do you mean Astarion not being surprised because Halsin in general talks a lot about "enjoying the freedom of nature's gifts", and Astarion guessing that he would outlaw clothing if he could?

I was talking about this:


But that reaction from Astarion always makes me smile. I love that laugh he does, it feels so genuine. And his mockery of Halsin and the clothing comment, even though I'm head over heels in love with him, is hilarious.

I *would* agree with you about Tav/Durge being hot to everyone, but ALL the characters are hot so...

Yes, I meant that too. I never heard the Grove line in videos or in game, so I was wondering if they meant Astarion's usual comment concerning Halsin. Granted me not getting romanc-adjacent lines with Halsin doesn't say much, since I keep my conversations with him to Grove politics and whittling. ^^

Pretty much. Personally (especially as a small halfing who had no interest in Halson) I found his sudden shift from being pollite professional, to sex addict rather unsettling.

@KlarissA, yes, my mistake, he directed, he didn't write this scene

In general, regarding the romantic aspects in the game, I beat Atarion, Gale ,and Halsin is definitely on the first place of the podium. I complained here in one of the threads about the ending, where Tav only gets one option with the orphanage, while the others have more decisions for Tav. However, now that I have a comparison, I don't complain about anything.Astarion has a beautiful story, but the end of the romance is disappointing, the involvement escapes somewhere and everything becomes superficial (the scene after the battle and the epilogue), while Gale's romantic scene, the one in the astral, was probably the most embarrassing moment in the game. Licking a spider in the temple of Shar was less pathetic. Halsin keeps the level all the time, I haven't been to a brothel with him so I'm turning this issue off.

This

But to be fair, as stated in the other Halsin threads, many people wanted to legit romance him, not just bang him. But as ususal, sex comes out on top, as you said, and it heavily reflects in his romance. I never got access to EA Halsin. But I was legitimately hooked on him after talking with him a little when you rescue him and at the party.

I think a lot of his cut content would have been amazing too. Supporting him and being there for him as he confronts the curse, Ketheric, Isobel...

I'm not sure if I'm quoting Anska the correct way, but this is what taints Halsin for me. I'm sure he isn't meant to be a creep, but suddenly his established concern for consent goes out the window at the brothel. He either doesn't notice or doesn't care when Astarion dissociates. He doesn't care that Gale is clearly uncomfortable or that he flees the room. I'm not sure if Gale is watching through his projection, but if he is, then Halsin is mocking him for not doing a sexual activity he never agreed to. If Gale isn't watching, then mocking the projection is just weird.

I really don't think they wanted Halsin to come across as a predator, but these scenes make it seem like he just pretended to care about consent until characters dropped their guard. I have to just pretend the scenes don't exist, or it ruins the character. I like him when he's doing his druid thing or ending the shadowcurse, and I want to be able to enjoy those parts.

It also doesn't help that you can't turn him down until act 3. The game thought I flirted with him at the party (I didn't, bug?), and he would make flirty comments from time to time. I was not able to tell him no, so it just kept being occasionally uncomfortable. I think we should be able to shut down ANY romance at any time, but it isn't possible in the flirting stage with some of the characters.

I'm not defending the situation in the brothel, my character didn't even go there, but I understand the ridicule of astral projection. An adult (mature) guy does not create a projection to look at such a situation from the side. Either he opposes and leaves, or he participates in it since he has already agreed to it. These projections of Gale are really inappropriate for his age, status, experience. I was embarrassed by it every time, and the peak of embarrassment caught up with me during astral sex. This is child's play.

As a kinky person, the brothel scene concerns me on a couple of levels: you can't stop the scene when it becomes clear that something is wrong, making fun of a participant for withdrawing consent (this is what safe-words are for), lack of pre-negotiated boundaries (unlike with the single-person brothel scenes), and lack of proper aftercare.

It's not well-written. I wish Larian had done better.

I agree with all of what you wrote @SteelTempest. To me it also seems as if the writers tackled the brothel scene with different levels of seriousness. In Gale's case the dialogue leading up to "the scene" is quite interesting and even adds another layer of meaning to the act 2 romance, especially if you chose the bed-in-the-woods version because it shows how much he trusts you and your relationship. It's a lovely way to use an uncomfortable situation to show another layer of the character and I am very glad they changed the player dialogue for this portion of the scene.

The orgy scene itself also makes me appreciate Gale even more but at the cost of being thoroughly disgusted by Halsin and my own character. While I can retcon these feeling in regards to my own PC for something that I only tried for science anyway, the bad feeling about Halsin's actions lingers, which is both unfortunate and most certainly unintentional.

They are his form of dealing with a situation that he can't handle himself, emotionally or otherwise, so the projection puts on a chipper mask and deals with it instead. If he is killed and terrified his corpse will blow up the area, his projection deals with it; inviting you to an outing while seriously depressed and unsure you accept, projection; dealing with a situation he is very insecure about and that gets handled callously by the person he trusts, projection; consoling his dear friend/lover after his final death, projection. Astarion retreats into his mind during the orgy (and Halsin is a creep in that scene too), Gale retreats into his magic.

The astral scene has nothing to do with the projections and while I agree it looks goofy I like what it represents, though I like the bed scene better because it is more emotionally intimate.

Those are scenes about Gale (and Astarion in the brothel) that I�ve only seen on YouTube. I remember going with the hologram invitation and projection under the stars many times, as a friend. And honestly I can�t fault him there. I like what it informs about him, even that which I didn�t experience first end. Maybe it seems childish to some, or strange. Yet, as someone who has to physically and emotionally get on the sidelines a lot, who used daydreaming as a coping mechanism a lot while growing up ? Well, I kind of get it (and it might just be that I don�t have the magic to end up doing it like this, ah ah�). Maybe that�s why I really adore Gale as a friend and a companion that I take everywhere a lot, because he is kind of relatable to me. I just haven�t romanced him.

For the brothel bit, I can understand the different perceptions people can get from it. For my own part, I think I�d put my thinking that way. That there are the people on stage and the characters they play, and it�s not really their fault if they are handed very bad material in some instances. To me, here is one such example, and I try to keep that in mind.

Perhaps I don't have enough sensitivity and empathy to evaluate these projections in a positive way. It's not something I despise, but every time I think- wtf Gale, how old are you kid? Halsin won for me as LI because I like his raw naturalism. He says the right amount of words, so I don't have to strain my brain to grasp the whole statement, which unfortunately happens with Gale. I think Gale's emotionality stopped at the level of a child. But his intellect soared towards the stars. That is why many people are irritated by his character. They cannot withstand this dissonance combined with excessive talkativeness. As for Halsin in the brothel, it seems to me that he was written in such a way that he does not delve deeply into psychology, lives by instinct and is not as sensitive as trauma-driven characters. It gives the impression that it is disgusting, but I don't see it that way.

With Halsin they just tried to do too much, hes like two characters meshed into one whe they diddnt really have to do that, and certain things are hidden behind certain events, so we don't really get a whole picture, and when we do it's a bit...inconsistent and creepy.

>Halsin inviting himself to the orgy

People have an issue with this when they have previously told him no to a relationship/sex. This is fair, Halsin has no reason to believe he would be welcome at an orgy with someone who turned him down for sex before.

>"I have had many lovers"/"My heart doesnt stir lightly"

This is a wierd one, because it seems contradictory. I have no problen with Halsin being someone who has had a lot of sex. You can have sex without a relationships, and I'm assuming that was the case with most of his lovers.. But this, coupled with his questionable behaviour at the brothel, his flirting with a romanced Shart, the Chimera thing, and his little banter with Gale about Wildshape and sex...it doesnt come off as healthy in anyway, it makes Halsin seem like e a creep who will stick his dick into anything whenever he has the oppourtunity. He also, like all the companions minus Astarion, is very cold and judgemental toward Tav when Harleep propositions us and uses our form. For someone who is that much into sex, made such a big deal about consent when he first proposes, who himself is an SA victim, you would think hed be more sympathetic. It gives his whole sexual attitude a creepy vibe.

Also, I find it funny how when you ask him about the relationship, he says he only wants you, but wants you to roam. But if you sleep with Mizora, he says he said that he said both of you are free to sleep around, which contradicts what he said about only wanting Tav. So, does he only want Tav or not? But you wouldnt know that if you diddnt sleep with her. Also, as someone who made a big deal about consent when he proposed, he should be upset that you slept with her but diddnt talk to him first. Tav cheated in that scenario, polyship or not. Its like he doesnt care at all as long as he gets to bang as he sees fit. Which also ties into my previous point and makes me question is this a loving romantic relationship for him, or is it just a sexual relationship?

I'm going to clarify what I mean for anyone who hasn't watched the scene.

The problem isn't just that Halsin complains about the projection. Gale had said he might be able to enjoy watching, from a distance. Depending on player choices, Halsin can say, "Hmm. Hovering yonder like a carrion bird. Perhaps he'll find the courage to peck at some flesh later." That's comparing someone to a vulture and implying they're a coward for trying to stick to their sexual boundaries. Ick. A different player dialogue choice leads to Halsin saying "Don't just stare, Gale. That mouth of yours can do better than just hang open, I'll wager." Halsin comes across as trying to push Gale to do more than Gale had agreed to do, once the scene had already started. I also think the conversation to get Gale to agree in the first place is too coercive for comfort. He ends his agreement to allow Halsin to join by saying, "If we must."

But like I said earlier, I think Halsin is out of character here. It's one of those situations where a character's behavior is so different than how they are otherwise characterized, that I almost view them as a different character. Brothel Halsin makes me skin crawl, Shadowcurse fixing Halsin is alright. It seems like a bunch of people (myself included) just try to pretend the scene doesn't exist.

For me, it's obvious that a relationship with him is more sexual than based on love. In the game, there is no way to say "I love you" to him, nor does he confess this feeling to Tav. I assume that it is a physical fascination and a relationship based on physical closeness. Halsin does not want to call it a romantic relationship.

As for the scene in the brothel, it is a specific place that triggers less subtle strings in people. I'm not defending Halsin's strange responses, but Gale could have let go of his presence there as a projection. It was immature, embarrassing, and not even funny.

This is my biggest gripe with him.

Wood elves (and Halsin is one of them) do not bond with one person, they are culturally polyamorous and it is very bad to express their desire to fit into one partner. Golden and Moon Elves are unlikely to look for partners among Wood Elves, because they know that they have no chance of a lasting relationship. So it's in line with the principles of DnD. Halsin doesn't know the world of lifelong relationships or long-term relationships.

There are a lot of lore inconsitencies in the game though.

But thats all I will say in regards to this because its been discussed before in the past two big Halsin threads.

Up until they patched in the epilogue, that would have been my interpretation as well. But with the epilogue I'd say it is quite open to your own interpretation. If you don't pay the sex workers at the brothel for an orgy and say no to Mizora, there is little in the way of dialogue and reactions from Halsin to suggest that he is only in it for the sex. You have a sex scene that shows a strong sensitivity and concern for Tav's needs and camp dialogue with kisses that are very warm and caring and some playful banter about his appetite for sex and previous encounters. If someone's interpretation of that is that he is in a romantic relationship with their Tav, I think it makes logical sense and is consistent with the story they have played.

Just as if someone else played the game and started a relationship with him and one of the other origin characters, paid the sex workers for an orgy and banged Mizora and Haarlep, there is a lot of reactions and responses that would reinforce their interpretation that the relationship with Halsin is based on sex and not romantic.

Do with it what you will and what makes you happy about the story you want for your Tav.

I agree, it can be assumed that Halsin has a deeper layer of feelings for Tav. Like Lae'zel, I think, but her culture doesn't even know the word "I love". Halsin, as a wood elf with a loose approach to relationships and raised in a polyamorous culture, still seems strongly devoted to Tav. I see similarities in the context of the relationship between Lae and Halsin. At the end of the game, both seem surprised by how involved they are in their relationship with Tav.

Yeesh, I knew about his other comment poking fun at Gale, but the carrion thing is just straight up mean, lol.

Ugh, Halsin bby, what did they do to you....

It was debunked in other thread: the polyamory of wood elves was mentioned only once and only in one book which is not even a rulebook. Forgotten Realms wiki is made by fans hence it is not a good source of material, so taking this "fact" from it was a developers' mistake.

Long story short: Halsin's main goal was dealing with the Shadow Curse hence he doesn't allow himself to waste time on something else until the curse is lifted.
About romance issues: His romance was written and implemented only because of fans who liked him very much: one part liked him being adult, serious and witty and wanted to have serious good relationships arc, the others saw him as "hot daddy", and we all know which side "won". Halsin's attitude in Early Access was different, he had different traits, so EA players was shocked with what they got. Plus, his Act 2 story could've been wider and more tragic taking into account datamined information.
But all this info you can find in the " main" Halsin thread.

These books are canon whether you like it or not.

If a tie-in novel can be waved off as not canon because it wasn't a rule book, we could also argue that any character who appeared in the Drizzt novels, but only once, also doesn't count as a canon character, or that any worldbuilding introduced in the novels is non-canon.

Does it really matter what is canon regarding wood elves and what isn't? Faer�n is a setting with diversity where any character can be poly. Not all dwarves are stubborn and not all gnomes are carefree and a wood elf can be monogamous (even if the quoted wiki is canon, it simply says wood elves are often polyamorous, leaving plenty of freedom for the creator of a wood elf character to choose whatever they think fits their character). I see little to be gained by arguing whether Halsin should be poly or not because he is a wood elf, Halsin is esatablished as non-monogamous and you can have a story with him where he is just a casual fling on Tav's bucketlist of sexual conquests, or a story where you end up in a relationship with a deeper bond and commitment and this does not in any way conflict with the fact that he is non-possessive and strongly values and protects his and Tav's autonomy and independence in the relationship.

Except that nowhere does it say that Tav is in a relationship with Halsin. Even in the new epilogue. They just live together, sleep together, and that's it. There is not a single declaration of love (I love you), there is no declaration of an official relationship. So the most canonical polyamorous nature of the wood elf is preserved until the end of the game.

That and he is actually pretty boring as a companion. He doesn't bring much to the table. A lot of NPCs you meet along the line, would make more sense as companions, because they actually would have plot hooks in act 3: Barcus of course and the whole plot around Gortash and the artificer guilds, Korrilla and her ties to Raphael ( and maybe her sister as a bonus companion depending on your choices, similar to Minsc), Kagha could have had whole redemption plotline for her, a lot of the cultists in act 2 could have made sense, since they probably would be eager to see the Absolute gone too, and maybe pick some bones with Gortash and Orin. Hells, even Abdirak would have had more stuff to do for him with the Ilmater plot and the Chosen of Bane thing as a Loviatan.
I agree that Halsin was pretty much chosen as eye candy and not much more. Larian pretty much sold him as the resident sex toy so to speak. While every other companion has a lot going on for them, even outside romances, Halsin only has the romance in act 3 going for him, nothing else.

Meaning I agree with Ixal and Wormerine, that Halsins inclusion into the companion cast wasn't a planned thing, but a marketing coup , since people were lusting for him. I think act 1 and 2 were Halsin as intended and act 3 was for the simps, therefore the story doesn't make a whole lot of sense. He is even still listed as an ally in the final fight, but you can't call on him or the grove ( as was probably the original intention).

If you live together and sleep together you have a relationship, whether you put a label on it or not. That this relationship comes with individual autonomy and independence and without commitments or long term declarations does not make it any less of a relationship. Is it purely physical and about sex, or are there romantic and emotional feelings involved as well? That's up to you do decide. If you play the scenes where he displays his joy of getting your attention, the embraces and the forehead touches, it is quite easy to imagine this relationship as romantic and emotional.

I don't get what you are arguing against here? That it is somehow wrong to imagine your relationship with Halsin as romantic because as a wood elf he is non-monogamous? The two are not mutually exclusive by any means.

I have no intention of arguing with anyone about the interpretation of the character and the feelings associated with it, because it is a highly individual matter how someone understands it and there is no point in even discussing it. However, I see that Halsin, despite being written for fans and not entirely with a developed plot, still sticks to this canon of a wood elf. They do not create relationships for life and remain in informal "relationships". This is what Halsin's epilogue looks like in my opinion. I don't know all the romances, but I suspect that only here there is no verbally expressed love, no one says "I love you". I interpret it as a typical wood elf relationship, which is based more on physical attraction and fascination. Among the wood elves, it is even embarrassing to engage in long-term relationships and stay with one partner. Halsin was written this way, I don't know if it was intended for canon, or if it turned out to fit.

The only time this has been argued is in the context of a solomance run with him, which isn't unreasonable.

You cut out half of the sentence in that quote:


I meant that he could be poly/non-monogamous regardless of whether he is a wood-elf or not. I find framing it as a defining feature because of his race, and not his personality, experiences and nature as very narrow and I was making the point that there is a lot of variation within races and cultures in Faer�n.

It happens to fit that he is also a wood-elf, I just don't think it should discourage someone from exploring making a polyamorous character that is not a wood-elf or making a wood-elf that is monogamous. I am just saying, don't read too much into canon that you fail to see the possibilities and dimensions of a character outside that framework. Halsin's story is his own, not a story about wood elves.

I'm more trying to explain to myself the elven forestry that Halsin has such an attitude to relationships. He reacts "allergic" when you ask him "what do you think about our relationship". And yes � I interpret that it results from the fact that he came from a culture that does not recognize relationships. Of course, in my head I can even add that Halsin confesses his love, but I don't go beyond what I get in the game scenario.

I think you make more far reaching assumptions about wood elf relationships than the source material actually states. It states that wood elves are calm and level-headed and often cease relationships and engage in new relations without much drama. As I read it that makes them have a calm and sensible approach to the fact that things such as attraction, infatuation and romantic feelings will often change and fade. Not that they are fleeting or averse to deeper emotional bonds.

I've read that moon elves, for example, don't want to get involved with wood elves precisely because they don't want to place their feelings where they know it will be impermanent. Halsin also fits into the canon of the wood elf because he has these qualities, he is calm and balanced. Of course, I do not rule out that I define the entirety of his character by his origin. But I don't see anything wrong with that. He's a wood elf and he's a cool character, I don't quite like poly, but nothing is perfect.

I have a save from a play thru with the most recent patch and halsin will still have the above world banter with shadowheart even if you don�t talk to him.


The writer confirmed that the banter is sexual so you can�t even think it�s just friendly banter.

It doesn�t help that Shadowheart is so enthusiastic about the idea of having sex with him or him inviting himself with the drow twins after being refused twice and getting disapproval for rejecting him.

It made it feel like shadowheart dosent care about Tav and it made Halsin come across as a creep that won�t take no for an answer.

When did the writer confirm that the banter is sexual?

Halsin had a LOT of his Act 2 content cut, content which made him intricately involved and borderline central to the plot in Act 2, which is a shame. I would really have liked to see it. We briefly went over it in the other thread/s. I don't know why they cut it unless it was an issue of time, because they could have kept it in and it still would have worked narratively even when he goes with you in Act 3.

I think the story just changed. Based on what we have now, it wouldn't make any sense for Halsin to kill Isobel. They're both good aligned people with no reason to clash at all based on the story presented. I just think Halsin is another example of Larian being flakey and irresponsible in their creation process. Poor planning and poor consideration.

There was sense and it still would be there if Larian hadn't changed Nightsong: originally she was... something like a Herald of Shar or something similar and she was a reason for this event. There was logic in her name since Shar is a Night Singer. Calling daughter of Selune "Nightsong" is weird, plus it is weird she is a mere aasimar (correct me if I am wrong but aasimars are basically the same thing as tieflings, but with angelic ancestry). She should've been aasimon/deva/angelic being, but that's a discussion for a different thread.

Nightsong was the name, the Sharrans gave her and it probably was meant mockingly. She refers to herself only as Aylin or Dame Aylin.
And she is a bit more than a normal Aasimar, since she is immortal.

Aylin is the daughter of Selune is she not?

I still think the story would have made sense had they gone with the original story plan.

Unless I am incredibly stupid and completely missinterpreted the story, Halsin killing Isobel *could* make sense, especially since it was clearly in self defense on Halsin's part.

Idk the details of the datamined content though, but I do have my ideas on what could have happened based on what weve discussed here and I like it a lot better.

That's what I mean when I say the story was changed. They had ideas for the story, then decided to go for something different and as a result Halsin's old plot no longer had a place.



I see no no reason as it stands for Halsin to have to kill her in self defense. There's no conflict between them and no reason why there ever would be. I'd be interested in hearing your pitch, at least.

So heres what Im thinking. Keeping in mind this is all my headcannon based on discussions we have had here in the threads and how I understand the in game lore and cut content, so I could also be wildly off base. In which case everyone has the right to rip me a new one. Hopefully I dont completely humiliate myself with this. However, Im not saying this is what was planned, but how I am trying to fit together what we have in a cohesive manner. But I have already stated, I dont know the details of the datamined content. I dont know what the original story really was that Larian had planned.

My pitch is this.

Ketheric Thorm, his wife, and daughter Isobel are all devout Selunites. They are a powerful family in the town of Reithwin. As the town of Reithwin grows and expands, tensions rise between the town/Thorms and the local druidic circle, of which Halsin is a member, assumingly because the town is growing and is encroaching on local habitat, threatening the balance of nature. I believe there is banter about this though I cant confirm.

Selune has a child, Aylin aka The Nightsong, who falls in love with Ketherics half elf mortal daughter, Isobel. Ketheric having issue with Aylin and Isobels relationship due to the fact Aylin is an immortal never made total sense to me, since he is a Selune worshipper and you could make a very similar argument for him because of him and his wifes races. I would assume that he would be thrilled with the idea of his daughter being the beloved of the child of the goddess he and his wife worship. But perhaps he did have a problem with it, it doesnt really matter as far as what I think could happen.

So what Im thinking in my headcannon, is that Selune herself had an issue with the relationship for some reason. I can easily see a goddess being upset that their child is romanticaly involved with a person who is beneath them. I understand that the gods sleeping with mortals isnt uncommon, but Aylin isnt a goddess. She is the offspring of one. And if a romantic relationship isnt what Selune had planned for her child, or if it is somehow intervening with Selunes will or plans for her offspring, I can see it being an issue.

So what does Selune do? She intervenes. Gets rid of Isobel. But Selune would most likely need to do it somewhat indirectly, or at least discreetly, or she risks her relationship with her child, as well as whatever plans she had for her. So she waits for an oppourtunity to get Isobel to inadvertently kill herself. She takes advantage of the growing tensions between Reithwin and the druids. There is a meeting set up between the druids and Reithwin, supposedly to discuss some sort of peace treaty or agreement between the two factions. If there is already tension, it would be a good oppourtunity for someone to pull shenanigans.

So in my mind we have 3 possibilities, and they may even overlap eachother.

Selune dissaproves of Aylins relationship and instigates the whole thing herself, and Shar gets involved when Ketheric starts worshipping her instead of Selune after Isobel is killed

Shar instigates the whole thing herself to mess with Selune

Or maybe Selune makes some sort of deal with Shar to get rid of Isobel, this is not likely, but I could believe Shar using this as a way to mess with Selune

The datamined content as far as I understand seems to imply something going on with Aylin, as either an imposter or shes under the influence of something and somehow instigated the altercation where Isobel is killled, I think possibly persuading Isobel to attack, or perhaps Isobel defends Aylin from a percieved attack. Aylin may possibly be the under the influence of Shar, which would only make sense if Selune was desperate enough to seek out her sisters help. Or if Shar, acting on her own, somehow convinced Aylin/Isobel to instigate something at the meeting, specifically to mess around with Selune and her daughter. Or, what I would prefer, Selune herself somehow influences Isobel, since she is a cleric of Selune and worships her, to attack. Any option is just a way to get Isobel killed, knowing whoever she attacks will defend themselves. Isobel just so happens to attack Halsin, or perhaps she attacks the druid leader and Halsin defends the druid leader who is being attacked. Isobel is killed in the process. This is why Halsin feels guilty and responsible for the curse, he was the catalyst for it. We also have to remember that this place is his childhood home. He played in the woods with Thaniel as a boy, so we can assume he was at least raised in or in the vicinity of Reithwin. How many people were killed due to this? And how horrible must he feel about it? To see his homeland destroyed by a grieving Ketheric, which Halsin is responsible for. Thats why he comes with us when he sees a connection between our tadpoles and moonrise.

I dont know how aware of eachothers activities the gods are, but we know Shar and Selune are at odds. And we know Ketheric starts to worship Shar at some point. So Shar, wanting to take advantage of the situation or otherwise screw with Selune, uses a grieving Ketheric to kidnap her sisters offspring holding her hostage, and expands her power and influence. Ketheric goes along with it, hoping Shar will bring Isobel back.

But he doesnt get Isobel back. I dont have much to go on after this. But we know a battle happens at moonrise, the Sharran curse is thrust upon the land, the druid leader is killed, Halsin becomes the new leader and most likely flees with as many of the druids as he can due to the curse and they start the Emerald Grove druidic circle. From what I understand Ketheric falls in the first battle at moonrise, and somewhere in the timeline starts and stops worshipping Shar. I dont know if anything in game says when exactly, I am going to presume he starts after Isobels death, and stops when he realizes Shar wont give him what he wants. Later he starts worshiping Myrkul, and does the Absolute stuff, in exchange for Isobels ressurection.

Now, out of all the possibilites I mentioned above, the one I like the most is this.

Selune for some reason doesnt like Aylin being with Isobel. Selune takes advantage of the Druid/Thorm conflict. Selune, or maybe Shar, either influences Aylin to make Isobel to attack, or directly influences Isobel to attack Halsin at random. Halsin kills Isobel in self defense. Selune got what she wanted. Ketheric in his grief starts worshipping Shar, builds the temple, starts pulling all the shenanigans that leads to the first battle of moonrise. In the battle, the curse is thrust upon the land, the druid leader is killed, Halsin is now leader, and flees with the druids. Ketheric is defeated and gets involved with Myrkul and The Absolute. The curse splits the spirit of Thaniel in two. And things stay like this for 100 or so years until Absolute cult business starts up.

Thats an interesting pitch. Those stories all make sense in isolation, but I feel like they wouldn't really fit with the game overall. Firstly, I think Selune instigating the whole thing would make her entirely unsympathetic and really ruin Shadowheart's story if it continued unchanged. Even ignoring the shadow curse that results from Isobel's death, Swlune is meant to be a good goddess and having her do something that intensely calous ruins that idea entirely. Shar doing something to make Halsin kill Isobel is better in tHalsin that respect, but in both cases it feels cheap honestly. Halsin has no agency, he was just there at the wrong time.

I feel like thats kind of the point for Halsin though. He diddnt ask for any of this, he got swept up in it, but he still wants to make things right and do his best. I really would have liked the oppourtunity to have supported him as he confronted his guilt and remorse, and work with him to help him lift the curse that has ravaged his home for 100 years.

And yea it would kind of mess with Sharts story if Selune did such a thing, but good gods arent immune to doing bad things it seems in DnD. Just look at what Mystra did to Gale, asking him to blow himself up. if you make Gale suicide bomb the elder brain at moonrise, which is what we are led to believe Mystra wants at the time, everyone infected turns into a mindflayer. This means Mysta isnt all knowing, and is willing to sacrifice someone who was so devoted toher, even though she is supposed to be 'good', just because she got angry. Gale may or may not have fucked up but I dont think it was reasonable for her to ask him for his life, and I would argue was a very bad and immoral thing for her to do, even though she is a 'good' goddess. But gods will god, people do their bidding and will because they are gods.

I would also argue, that Aylin being Selunes offspring, may influence Selune making choices she may not otherwise make. Because its her child involved. The gods in DnD seem to be suseptable to many of the things mortals are: jealousy, rage, etc etc. Maybe, with this, Selune made a bad choice. A mistake. Thats even assuming our characters even realize it may have been her. Maybe no one finds out.

But I still think the broad strokes are whats most important, the nitty grittys can be fleshed out better. Something happened, and it involves Shar and Selune, causing Isobel to attack Halsin, he kills her in self defense. And everything goes to shit from there.

That's fair regarding your Halsin point. As for the gods though, I think that's far more problematic. Firstly, there have been fans in this forum who've poited out how Mystra asking Gale what she does is out of character already, and more in line with Larian's interpretation of gods in their other games. But beyond hat, maybe its because I'm a person of some faith but I don't think Mystra's request is that outrageous in this context. She's not just a person acting out against an ex because she's mad. She's a goddess with higher understanding, responsibility and knowledge, asking something of a worshipper. Specifically She's asking for a redemptive sacrifice that's also meant to serve he greater good. Gale sinned against her as a goddess and now she's giving him a way to atone. Presumably once he dies, she's claim his soul for whatever afterlife awaits her worshippers and all will be well in that respect. The stuff with everybody turning is bad, but I look at how if Gale explodes in act 3 everything is fine for no reason and just chalk it up to bad writing.

So while I agree Mystra's request is harsh and morally gray, I think that's leaps and bounds different from having one perfectly innocent man murder one of her worshippers just because you don't want her dating your daughter. That is leaps and bounds more petty and like you said, it ruins Shadowheart's story and at that point Shar kind of seems like the right choice to side with and Selune loses all appeal. Maybe if for some reason he relationship was putting he greater good at risk somehow, like threatening to put Aylin in Shar's power and thus make Shar stronger, then it would work. But that still feels iffy frankly.

I don't really have much of an argument for that, becauase to me peesonally it doesnt relaly matter if is was Selune specifically. All I know about DnD lore is what BG3 has presented to me and a few brief reads of the wiki.

But someone, somewhere, was pulling shenanigans. And I am extremely interested in that plot line, and wish they had kept it, especially since it gave Halsin more to do. And they clearly recorded lines for it because Halsin's VA mentioned an extremely emotional scene, and I assume this is when Halsin explains what happened with Isobel, confessing that the curse was his fault.

Based in the evidence we have. Someone pulled shenanigans at this meeting between Reithwin and the druids, and got Isobel killed by Halsin. Who they were, and why they did it, I don't know. And because that whole plotline was cut, we wont ever know most likely.

About the shenanigans in the Shadowcursed Lands look at codexes in Grymforge and the House of Hope and talk to a debtor in the House of Hope and you get a glimpse of what has happened and a reason more to despise a certain devil. I don't think, it was ever planned to have Halsin involved in the plot before the Shadowcurse. If I remember correctly, Ketheric turned to Shar after his wife died and to Myrkul for the promise to bring his daughter back. Halsin was part of the group fighting him in the Shar aera and might have accidentally killed Isobel ( in the EA version) during that timeline. I think, he said, that he is indirectly responsible for the Shadowcurse back then in EA, so I thought, Ketheric released the Shadowcurse as revenge for his daughters death. And later turned to Myrkul,when he promised to bring her back.

That works too.

I dont know if it was an in game note or a datamined thing but I feel like I remember reading about it from Halsin's perspctive. He he acted instinctively, his perspective was he was attcked, and he diddnt really know what happened, and he was really negatively afected by the wole thing. So if he killed Isobel durng he first battle of moonrise, something fishy happened either way. I think he did it with the glaive we get for saving he grove that does psycic damage. He said he never wated to see it again, and I know my Tav said something about it making her sad. Im assuming the glave was tainted magically somehow when it was used on Isobel.

But even if he was less involved, he is still involved. The plot was he killed Isobel somehow for some reason, and carries alot of guilt for it because it led to the shadow curse being relased. Thats the premise. He still wants to fix what was done. He feels bad about it. I feel like thats plenty of motivation for him to team up with us and come along, and because we helped him and became friends he continues with us. Im glad they added him as a companion, I am a Halsimp ater all, I just dont think they needed to change all that much about what they were originally gonna do with him, if thats even ths reason for the changes at all. He is a good aligned hero character after all.

Like I said, I don't think the change had anything to do with Halsin. I think they decided to change Isobel's place in the wholse plot and the timeline of things with Kethric and when they did, it didn't make sense for Halsin to have killed her. Kethric turned to Shar because Isobel died, and Halsin only fought Kethric because Kethric turned to Shar, so she had to already have been dead before any first battle where Halsin could have killed her.

I don't really think him having killed Isobel would change much anyway. Even if that had happened, he would still be absolved of those issues after the curse ended, and him continuing to travel with us would still be because he's grateful for our help, which is his motivation currently. Guild over killing Isobel is just an extra tie to the plot that's maybe nice to have, but doesn't actually change anything.

I have to be honest zero problems with Halsins involvement in act 2, that was ok and a pretty badass storyline, my problem is with him being in act 3,since he does nothing there ( if you don't romance him, which I don't).

I also think, he is pretty incompetent as a first druid: he leaves the grove to an inexperienced and insecure young woman,while the much more level headed Rath is right there. He doesn't seem to remember, that he can turn into very small animals and escape, until after the tadpolers free him. He seems to have trouble to control himself in bear form, while every other druid, my pc included, who start as a beginner at level 1, have zero problems with it.
I would have preferred, if Halsin would really be a wise and mature archdruid. As latter he should be at least level 12, I think, and not be recruitable.
There should be an explanation, why he decided to leave the grove to Kagha ( maybe Rath wasn't there or something like that) and why he didn't turn into a mouse and escaped his prison ( anti magic something something - it would be one line in dialogue more to handwave it a bit).

Halsin is the one character,I find rushed and inconsequential written from start to end. People complain about Wyll, but he only needs more reactivity and a bit more to his story, Halsin is a big questionmark for me.

Again fair enough.

I suppose I'm just dissapoined because the changes mean a significant lack of conent for Halsin, which I am thouroughly disspaointed in, especialy given what we got in the end with him. Its better now than it was, but still lacking a bit. And the cut conent I find really compelling, and Im kinda stuck on 'what could have been'

Because what is there, thats good, works really really good for me. I like Halsn for a reason and it isn't bear sex.

I'm honest, I was never interested in this character and don't get the hype at all and am still sad, that he might be the reason,we didn't get a small race companion ( Barcus is right there). But if there would be more to Halsin than a meme romance, I would be convinced to give him a try. For me there is no reason to switch him in as my druid,when we have Jaheira, not only one of my favourite companions through three games now, but one of my favourite DnD NPC's in general. Everything she says and does is great and she is very competent in her role.
Halsin is for me in his current state a waste of a companion slot - and we could have had a halfling werewolf bard ( she wasn't scratched for Halsin, but still).

Just to help clear things up, it's from this findable Book in the Druid's Grove that was in the game, atleast from the first EA version.
https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=921669#Post921669
So even negating whatever Act 2 datamined content there was for it, it seems it was initially planned to have Halsin kill Isobel.

Thinking about the change tho, it is abit strange that they decided to revive Isobel, given that she doesn't really do much in the game that couldn't have been another Selunite.

That and for me its strange that they would have all this content for him originaly not bieng a companion, then make him a companion and cut most if it out.

I think they changed the story well before deciding to make him a companion. I suspect that if we want to figure out what happened, we need to focus on Isobel, Shadowheart and Aylin, rather than Halsin. I think Halsin was just a casualty of a change in direction surrounding those characters, rather than being the focus.

If you really look at Shadowheart's place in the story and how it goes in act 2, there's actually a lot of stuff that doesn't really make sense. Shadowheart is apparently meant to become Shar's chosen by using a super important spear to kill Aylin. But why is killing Aylin that important? So important that it warrants a prophecy. Also Kethric apparently had to send Balthazar to seek out Aylin despite those two being the ones to capture her in the first place. Also, why does Shadowheart's hair turn white if she abandon's Shar? that just never comes up even though it's not like it used to be white and her hair went black after she was kidnapped. And why does Aylin instantly have insight into this random girl who came before her? Also, Halsin would have known about Aylin, since a divine emmissary visiting a nearby village on the regular would be THE thing everyone talks about and now way would he not have heard about it.

I think that there used to be a story where Shadowheart and Isobel and Aylin were way more intertwined, and that changed in a big way.

She dyed her hair white, no?


I can kinda buy that Aylin knew of Shadowhearts origins given that she's in Shar's realm as the Nightsong, just absorbing memories given to the Mirror, but the game doesn't suggest any of that so it's mostly headcannon territory.
And, I mean, most of Act 2 also looks generally haphazardly written when you look at it closely anyway...

And for your last point, going back to the datamines from EA release for maybe more insight, Nightsong wasn't Aylin and you were originally going to choose between Kethericor a boss fight vs the Nightsong.
However, in saying that, thats about all I read/found and I imagine it was pretty undeveloped, despite all the lead up to Ketheric via Grymforge. Although, Larian did reference that Ketheric was to be a companion, so maybe this old path was what they're referencing?

Edit: Was slightly wrong, I found the dialogue parser tool which shows that there was a Necromancer, Sevryn, whom you could side with a kill the Nightsong for him. Unfortunately, all the dialogue options are missing in the localization file (?), so its all just ID lines; Those files is also where I found the couple of lines about siding with Ketheric vs Nightsong.
It was also apparently meant to be set in Act 1 too.

Otherwise, it'd be interesting to read why things changed the way they did and I wonder how the Dead Three was originally, given the Absolute's symbol is the it all combined.

Shadowhearts hair dies come up: She says, she died it to mark that big change in her life.

I agree with the assessment that the changes to the Nightsong/Aylin also heavily impacted Halsin. Aylin in no way fits anything that would reasonably be called the Nightsong and whatever it was originally supposed to be probably made a lot more sense. Having to shift Aylin and therefor Isobel and Shadowheart around so much after changing the Nightsong definitely hit Halsin's involvement with the Shadow Curse pretty hard.

Halsin is good for one thing and that thing happens in Act III.

This is the way and Heroes Feast in camp.

It manly comes down to him not respecting the no.


Act 2:

Halsin accuses you of treating him like a lover when all you did was try to get to know him at camp.

That’s classic “nice guy” 101 tactics accusing you of leading them on.

Act 3:

You tell him you’re not interested in him yet he will still flirt with your LI.



Halsin and Shadowheart become overly flirty / horny for each other he talks about consent yet ignores the fact Tav has made it clear they aren’t attracted to him and they don’t want a poly relationship so him flirting and hinting at a 3 some with Tav / Shadowheart is wrong.



When you go to the brothel he invites himself into the foursome after being rejected twice beforehand.



Then you’ll get the Halsin and Shadowheart disapproves message so it comes across as them not caring about Tav consent.

That is another “nice guy” tactic Coercion:

Tav already said they aren’t interested in him and aren’t poly so now he and shadowheart are trying to pressure Tav/ player into something they’re not comfortable with.


Shadowheart isn’t innocent she’s just as guilty for not caring about Tavs consent.

It doesn’t help that Halsin is basically a sex meme.

Larain really f up with the disapproval message at the brothel as this is about consent so someone disapproves you not consenting to something you’re not comfortable with is just plain wrong.

Kinda off topic

Larain should give us an option to talk to Shadowheart regarding this so you can either lock into a mono or poly relationship with her or at the very least allow us to romance a monogamous character after breaking up with her in act3 so the player isn’t forced into this poly relationship if you don’t want it.

I’d like to add that at the Brothel scene, Halsin’s whole spiel about the importance of Tav’s partner’s consent goes out the window.

Like previously mentioned, Halsin simply invites himself regardless of whether or not he was rejected (either outright or because the partner in question is monogamous).

Halsin doesn’t ask for the monogamous partner’s permission to have the foursome with Tav at all, nor does he bring up asking for the partner’s permission first if they’ve been left at camp.

Furthermore, after all is said and done, there’s no repercussions or discussions for Tav and their partner’s relationship afterwards. It’s like it’s all swept under the rug.

This, combined with what the previous post stated, really doesn't cast Halsin’s behaviour in a favourable light.

Now I know that this probably wasn’t the writers intentions with Halsin, but it’s like Pandora’s box in that once the unfavourable things come out, they’re basically impossible to put back in.

He does ask rather courteously and you can accept or decline, so Tav's consent is still there (Though in regards to Gale's consent, I find the entire writing very disturbing as it basically makes a joke out of someone's boundaries and inhibitions to sex, which is in really poor taste in my opinion. But Halsin is only a part of the problem here as it is Tav that coerces and pushes Gale into accepting it in the first place.).

The disapproval if you decline is something which a lot of people have strong opinions about and I understand and respect how people may feel that it is rubbing it in your face. I don't pay it that much attention as there are a lot of places in the game where the disapproval or approval can feel out of place depending on your headcanon and where the game coding can't read the intentions or tone you had in mind when making the decision. There are a lot of ways to interpret the dynamics of what is going on there, and depending on your interpretation, the disapproval can feel warranted or out of place.

I think Milsonwheels95 means that Halsin will still participate in the orgy if the player's monogamous partner is at camp, and don't even know the orgy is going to happen. I did some quick testing (so I may have missed some variations) and found that the Drow twins did not agree to the group scene if my character's partner wasn't present, so Halsin didn't ask if he could join too.

HOWEVER there was an exception to this. If Astarion was in the party (I was not partnered with him), the Drow twins would invite Astarion. Astarion agreed, and if the player agreed to that, then Halsin asked if he could join. So in that particular circumstance, Halsin does not care if the player cheats on their partner with him. I'm hoping this was just a programming oversight (since in his confession scene he says he wants their consent), but it is something that can happen in game.

Oh, I didn't even know it was possible to initiate the orgy if your romanced partner was not there.

That's crazy and either Halsin must have been replaced with a doppelganger or he is just a rotten bag of dicks (along with Tav and Astarion too ofc, but Tav is up to the player if they want to play as a decent person or not and Astarion is kind of expected).

Lae'zel and Minthara should definitely break up with Tav over that and severed dicks would not be entirely out of character either. That drow scene is such a mess. Sure, it's all probably meant as a joke, but destroying the image of a likeable character for some cheap jokes is pretty bad in my opinion.

I mean, it sounds like Halsin had every reason to assume the player had their partner's consent if the player and Astarion were already planning on having an orgy. It wasn't the factually correct assumption, but it was hardly a wild leap of logic to take. What's the alternative? Halsin sees a friend ready to have sex and goes "wooooah there buddy, are you sure you're not cheating on your partner?" Dude, that would be the biggest asshole move EVER.


Honestly, that just sounds like a euphemism for "I'm looking for excuses to hate the guy." The writers didn't open Pandora's Box- the portion of the fanbase that feels possessive over pixels did.

The kisses? The romance scene? His adoption of a lot of orphans? His calling out about how much capitalism sucks? That adds up to four.

It's odd that he would assume it there when he is very adamant that there is explicit consent from your partner in the earlier scene. I would chalk it up to the scripting and depth of that scene not being very thorough. The complete lack of reactivity from your romanced partner that you went behind their back suggests that they didn't bother thinking too hard about consistency and consequences in this scene.

If my friend was in a monogamous relationship with someone and about to do something that would really upset and hurt their partner, I would 100% call them out on it and I would certainly not want to be complicit in it. I really don't see where that makes me the asshole.


This is what I would rather assume. With it requiring utilising specific flaws in the scripting to set up the situation, I think you would need malicious intent to go through all that just to point a finger at Halsin saying how awful he is. As I said, I find Halsin generally likeable, there's just a few places where they have made some mistakes with the scripting and writing, and if you go out of your way to find them, it makes him look very out of character. Rather than seeing these things as canon and finding some warped logic to defend them, I would just assume they are attempts at jokes or glitches and avoid them.

The thing is, the player and Astarion weren't planning on having an orgy in advance. The player tries to have a threesome with the twins, the twins say only if there's another person and request Astarion, if he's in the party. Astarion's dialogue makes it clear that they had not previously planned it, and it was spur of the moment. I think assuming the player had already discussed it with their partner would be naive, and Halsin is supposed to be wise.

Considering being wise and caring about the partner's consent are already established for Halsin, I'm inclined to believe him asking to join is a programming oversight, as I mentioned it might be in my earlier post. It's a specific set of variables and could easily have been missed in testing.

I think a lot of the brothel stuff is poorly thought out/implemented, and I try to not let it impact my views of the characters too much. It is in the game though, so unless Larian fixes/changes it, I can't blame people when it does impact their perception of the characters.