Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Astarion romance improvements

Finally, the Karlach kiss for everyone! The scared look on pc's face is my only gripe with the kneel kiss - like they're not allowed to enjoy being sub.

On another positive note -

Tav has to agree to it before being turned so if they are into it or at least ok with it then they shouldn't look like this.


Oh wow! Finally! Can't wait to see what else is new. ^^

And while I know that probably nobody is interested in this: Origin Spawn Astarion can now ask his partner to come to Underdark with him. It seems to mostly end in the ordinary adventuring dialogue but it is a nice touch.

Yeah, this kiss triggers first after Tav got turned and the hierarchy is already established. It's so strange they chose the scared facial expression.


The new one is pretty good.


That's a nice touch!

... at least romanced Gale's reply to it has excellent "we can do everything, when we are together" energy to it and a portion of the couple-dialogue during the party was adapted to make it sound they are both working together to keep the spawn safe. Such a good addition. I'll stop gushing now, I am just always really happy when meaningful variations for the Origins are added.

Yep, the old one is gone now. Or it is only there for Spawn Astarion. A real pity, I loved that kiss animation with the peach touch.
Tav really looks pissed after two of the three kisses. And a bit like as if he would have been abused by a rapist - lol.
I could imagine a lot of people will throw ascended Astarion away now when only abusive and toxic kisses are left now.

That's really nice!


A shame, but since we got 3 new ones I can live with that change. They really do look displeased. I guess they're a good match now with Astarion grimacing when proposing sex for the first time and Tav after being kissed.

Spawn Astarion new kiss:



Kind of sucks that he only got 1 new kiss.


The epilogue is also modified now:

Ascendant:



Spawn:



I managed to load up my game now and I saw that Ascended Astarion had new animations in the party epilogue. They triggered twice but now I keep getting the old ones only. Sadly, he still cannot be kissed.

The last kiss before the end is no longer the chaste peck but the new bitey one for Ascended Astarion.

The new kisses are available immediately as soon as Astarion ascends and not after being turned into his spawn, which is not right because Tav is asked to kneel before the actual kneeling scene. That one should only be available after turning into a vampire.

Also, once again the ascended romance scene was tampered with. The spiciest part was shortened, the shot of the fireplace and Tav and Astarion standing removed. Is this a tradition now that every big patch something has to be changed for the worse in that scene?

Oh this is nice!
Why only me complain about only 2 kisses for Spawn? We need more))) this one with bite from Ascendant, it's so hot...I want this one too!

Can it be, that they made three new kisses for every character? Gale now has four (the old peck and three new ones) and for Astarion they did split, one old one each and then two for the one version and one for the other. I am not complaining because the old kiss is still my favourite for Astarion.

I think part of the problem with some of Tav's facial expressions stems from the fact that there are two valid interpretations (at least) of the romance with the Ascendant. One is that Tav was naive, expected Astarion to remain unchanged, and essentially feels duped/trapped in a relationship as his spawn. The game certainly provides dialogue options to support this. However, there's an equally valid way to roleplay it in which Tav made their devil's bargain happily, accepts the power structure, and enjoys how domineering the Ascendant is.

The problem being is that the game only bakes in one set of facial expressions in cinematics. So while we have dialogues to roleplay either story, we don't always get graphics that line up. I do agree, though, that by this point if you agreed to be turned and didn't chose to break up then your Tav is probably into it and shouldn't look scared/angry about it.

I see they made yet another modification to accomodate the trapped Tav roleplay, because in this new epilogue scene Tav looks sad when the dialogue options show up after Astarion's monologue. Like they're preparing to break up with him. In the previous patch they looked neutral.

I have no idea how much work it would take to add in different facial expressions and then trigger them based on internal flags that tracked your Tav’s dialogue choices. Probably too much.

The Ascendant romance feels like the most complicated one to me, and it seems like even the people who worked on it have very different ideas about what the relationship is/should be. That being said, I am happy we got anything like it at all. It’s just so fascinating to me.

However, when all is said and done, I feel that once Tav agrees to kneel they know what they are getting into. It’s on the table, and the choice can be freely made (there is no coercion). So if Tav doesn’t walk, I would prefer if the game assumed they were happy unless they directly choose a breakup option.

If they make Tav's facial expressions for Ascended Astarion romance ending not look sad and scared, then all is good. Tav chose this, & would not be sad or scared in this pre-party epilogue scene nor would Tav be looking scared/sad during any kisses. Whoever's decision was to make Tav look scared implies that we did not decide this in our minds. If that would be the only thing they change, then I am fine with it. Cause I would not be scared or sad.

I can't play the patch right now, but I've seen Spawn Astarion's epilogue title is "Radiant Hopeful". What is Ascended Astarion's? I figure if I should ask anywhere it's here.

It is "Sunwalking Regent".

The epilogue is buggy. I managed to get Astarion's new animations working one more time, then the old ones play again. Upon loading the saves the titles don't always show up. God Gale doesn't spawn when skipping the cutscene too.

I see they finally fixed Astarion's 1st romance scene kiss not being aligned.

New kisses with AA.
Criticism, dramatic and ferocious, but I'll try to be constructive.


- If Astarion had licked Tav cut instead of poking the face it would have been better.
- Knees everywhere is a meme, I don't take it seriously.
- Kissing Karlach is okay.
Honestly this kind of domination when there's no exploring Astarion's tastes in this area looks cheap.
But if the character's face was happy, playfully, it would look okay. It's terrible now.

Evil romance with Astarion by Larian it’s crazy roulette.

I see on net that a lot of people are happy with it, generally find it interesting and horny.
For me, that would be the case if Tav face wasn't screaming horror.
My Tav is an immoral, evil ally, friend and lover who only cares for and loves Astarion, sharing power and everything possible with him.

I find two reasons for this:
1 - The Narrative Story Line and Main Idea from Larian implies that Tav was playing for good and walking the arc of redemption, stepping into the path of evil by accident. So Tav suffers and tries to find love, but finds only rudeness, possessiveness, and abuse.
Based on this, Ascended Astarion is an abuser who regards Tav as an accessory and doesn't care at all.
Because the player pushed the evil button and is punished.
Evil - can love, but only abusively and without caring. Which, to be fair, is an insult to my intelligence.
Why is there even a romance with Astarion then? He's a neutrally evil character who was a slave-trading magistrate, and feels fun while killing, he's still capable of tenderness, to someone who cares about him. A character can kiss him with a smile, after a hug, when that pie with his other hand approved of murder and immoral things.
I thought it was a little more complicated than. Good and proper. Evil and wrong.
Evil is attractive, dangerous, and makes sense, not a sponge to polish good. It is the dumbing down of the good too.

2 - Mindless fanservice.

If we assume the dark, complex romance still exists, (and went into a coma on 02.14.2024), Tav face is changed to playful, then that would be option 2.
If the original inspiration is vividly Astarion, and Lord Astarion is still Astarion (which is canonically confirmed) - he's decadence, libertarianism, and he probably wants a wild, dark dynamic in romance. Is this pie that brutal?
Without a research (more elegant) it's looks incredibly abrupt and ooc.

Adding knees on randoms to kissing is not the best research in the world. Knees are an intimate thing, for should be mood, atmosphere and like fanservice with a vampire-dom - choice should be. (Unless, of course, it's an abuse narrative line where the player is a victim and Astarion doesn't listen).

My understanding of the dark romance.
There is no equality - there is sincere protection.
No "freedom of autonomy" - there is genuine care and love.
Basically, the dynamic that makes 70% of west, Twitter and Reddit yell if anyone likes it and that's what's being shown - straight and clear. Remember, Astarion is a vampire in medieval Faerun.
Without balance, it's just dark. One thing makes up for the other, which makes the novel not black and white - gray.
This is further changed by Tav style of acting.
"asking when I bite" - the one of line his romance.
It also devalues the scene during the turn.
The player can choose to be rough or gentle. Astarion listens.
It devalues the scene that he (hysterically of course) lets the mortal Tav go without a tadpole. Astarion listens.

The true abuse cycle is what Larian does over my thoughts with Astarion's story.

I agree on that. Ascended Astarion's character isn't particularly coherent. It feels, as if different people have written different scenes for him. The Romance scene, where Tav enjoys Astarion doesn't fit with his disgusted face of the new kisses. He is definitely shown as a victim of abuse now. I like the kneel down and the bite kiss, also a slightly terrified face at the start or Astarion pushing Tav away, but not Tav's pissed off faces. While in the Romance scene there was love left, here is nothing now. It's just cruelness. Astarion's sadism is hot, but not Tav, who is not into the relationship anymore. At least, that's the feeling I got from it.

The one who decided the facial expression for Tav either wanted to show that Astarion became a cruel asshole or has no idea about masochism. Tav's face is definitely not fanservice to SM, more a fanservice for people with Sadistic personality disorder.
(Just in case SM fanservice was intended and they want to know a masochistic facial expression: Give Tav either an aroused, shy, ashamed or a lustful face. But not a disgusted and abused one. The player needs to FEEL, that Tav loves Astarion, and Astarion Tav, even if he humiliates him, otherwise it is not SM, only sadism on Astarion's side)

And also give us the patch 5 kiss back with the peach touch, please. So that at least one loving kiss remains, especially for those who are not so much into seeing victim abuse or sadism, but are already used to that fantastic kiss. Giving more content is nice, but taking things away is very dangerous.

Agreed. Don't get me wrong, I love Astarion's entire story & have no issue with choosing either path for him because that is your playthrough. What I have a problem with is someone else putting their "judgments" on how I play my game & whoever made these particular choices is showing their judgment in their animation that simply does not even fit into what is voiced, written, or said in the game.

The way they portrayed the story, the way they animated it does not fit the narrative of the main writer or other interviews/statements of the people who are closely involved with Astarion. That is the main reason why the parts of the animation that are shown do not match even the written text or VO of the character. The way it looks now, it doesn't fit the narrative at all. So, put simply, no Larian. Whoever made this choice for these animations for the Ascended kisses, does not understand or does not approve of the way we played the character. Hells, the other "evil" (and I hate describing any character that way because there is no such thing as a pure evil character that is not an elemental in DnD if that is what you are basing the game on) characters such as Minthara did not get a suddenly abusive type kiss. Here you have a vampire lord who is saying, "Yes my treasure" while smiling and swinging his arms to choke, kiss, and shove while on their knees in front of the entire world? They may be "evil" characters, yet the one person who helped him achieve what they wanted would not be animated like that and then go back to being a "dark romance" afterward. It does not fit how the character was the entire game nor does it fit the VO of the character. Just my opinion.

I think Astarion's animations are very in character and fitting for that route. It also fits what few official statements we have seen about Ascended Astarion's romance. I agree Tav shouldn't look scared (not that a Tav couldn't be, but this is specifically a Tav that's already gone through the kneeling scene, so they know Ascended Astarion's deal and accepted it at the time, and is then asking for a kiss, possibly multiple kisses, so it's unlikely they'd be looking scared.)
Minthara's story and the themes it tackles are very different, so it makes sense she has a "evil power couple of equals" kind of romance instead. But Ascended Astarion gets a very explicit insight check where you discover he thinks you are degrading yourself by agreeing to this relationship, and also states if broken up with that he would have ruined you until you were nothing. More fundamentally, this Astarion route has him seeing everything in terms of power and control, so of course he's going to want to have power over you. It's why he turns you into a spawn in the first place. His animations are definitely adding up with the story Larian wanted to tell with his romance.

Out of curiosity: What is AAs morphic pool kiss like?

But, yes, while I am absolutely not a fan of the ascended route, it's a bit much. The kneeling kiss leaves little room for interpretation, especially if you consider it a public situation. Apart from Tav's facial animations, pushing Tav back by the throat is something I don't like.