That is interesting. I think the game is making a lot of assumptions about the player with Astarion and not giving a wide enough variety of choices, especially if you ascend him. Personally, I'm not that into being dominated in fantasy and would like to have the choice to gently push back on this line. My Tav wants to be with him, not to serve, though it wouldn't be a deal breaker fro my Tav, I could head cannon it that he'd just assume Astarion was still a little insecure and humour him.
The assumption that you like degrading yourself - (Astarion says this if you use detect thoughts) I really think the player should be able to respond to this either to confirm or rebutt it.
That's my blue dream... Astarion assumes that Tav likes to degrade herself. I sometimes try to imagine what would happen if Astarion knew the truth? For myself, I see "service" as caring and admiring.
All of this is an excellent point. Wanted to jump in and add that I disagree with the "oh he's only nice if you agree with him", because there isn't really fleshed out dialogue where players can agree and disagree with him in the game regardless?
The only instance I've seen used is the breakup dialogue. And of course, comparing him to his abuser. Which, why would he ever be happy and nice about that? The player dialogue choices there are mean and antagonistic.
It's interesting that if you just put yourself in his shoes and try to feel all this meanness and antagonism from a person you loved very much and only started to trust... It seems to me that if you take some random people, not evil, not cruel, but not robots either, but living people with feelings, put in the same situation, take their mocap, take their lines, we will get much more "toxic" options than the one given to us in the game. And that interesting buzzword is "betray=ask for freedom".
And it was written for me!
I really like that line and it gave me chills, too. On the one hand, you think: "oh-oh, what have I done" (and: "Putting yourself on an equal footing with the goddess Justitia was a bit arrogant, Astarion is and remains a narcissist!"), and on the other hand you're melting under his new power and dominance, because that's what you were hoping for, when you met him for the first time and he was throwing you to the ground and threatened you with the knife or when you found out in the goblin camp, he is into some special kink and that he enjoys to be dominant.
I'm also curious how differently this phrase is perceived when the scene is replayed, when you already know that everything will be fine. I wonder, if Astarion is a narcissist and admires himself, what would be the name of a character who admires Astarion himself in the same way?
I think if you could talk to him later after the ritual, he'd say something along the lines of, "I was drunk! Literally drunk! You saw how much blood there was! And if I told you I was the reincarnation of Baal, would you believe me too?
I'm not even sure if I can summon wolves or crawl on walls yet, I won't figure that out until the end of the game. But come on, give me a lecture.
He then talks about how "You must be expecting me to..." Basically, that he hasn't sorted out all his new powers yet. And so, like, a little embarrassed, but not to lose face. It's adorable, I can't hold back a smile of cuteness at this point.
5) Sexual Trauma: this wasn't even considered by the writer as a possibility for healing, but for some people it is. Asc Astarion feels like he's the most powerful being in the world and has complete control over everything that happens between him and Tav, so it's finally a kind of situation where there's no chance of him being abused again. This is one of the reasons why some people become Doms in BDSM relationships: finally total control over the process and a partner who trusts in a way that is completely submissive. Trust issues are also a big problem in Astarion's healing story.
I find the idea that only Sab can enjoy Asc Astarion a bit naive. Because, well, I have news for you: the Doms like him too, because they understand why he's so eager to be top
Indeed! So this is the first character in my life, the first character that I genuinely wanted to "give the reins" over myself to. There's no chance of him being abused again.Giving him control in a relationship is, it turns out, more valuable than any vows of eternal love and devotion Tav might have said. We can deal with the outside world, we have enough strength, and the "inner world" of the couple also thus becomes as comfortable and cozy for him as possible. And he likes to be the protector: "The Ascended Vampire is on your side, you have nothing to fear!" God, I even have an official confirmation from Astarion that I have nothing to fear, why paint the face of a frightened victim on me?
Very good post, thank you, and would like to add one more reason from myself.
To feel like a woman. Not just a "tank" breaking through walls. I am not saying that I want someone to solve problems for me, I know how to solve problems, but at least to play it, to pretend... I like the "treasure" - I feel beautiful (after Ascension Astarion says: "You are beautiful! And you will be beautiful forever!") Afterward, it makes me want to act more refined, stop swearing bad words and such. I like "My little spawn!" - makes me want to giggle and be a "little girl" for a bit. When Astarion tells Tav not to worry, she belongs only to him, it's like "I'll never leave you". I love everything he says to me. Though I miss the occasional playful lines from chapter two too, like, "Can we? I suppose we can," or "I'm listening to you with all my pointy ears," but all in good time.
But " Nothing special, of course..." - that's not my dream relationship. While I didn't care at all about what the relationship would be like when choosing, I cared about what was best for him. When I came across the line, "If you love Astarion, do not ascend him under any circumstances, or you will lose him!", before the ritual, it made me nervous, I was scared, suddenly, Astarion will die, because the word " loss" is used in that meaning. Well, or break up with Tav, leave her - that could be seen as a loss too. And this, it turns out, is another funny example of "another language". "Losing him" means "he's started to behave in a way that doesn't suit me."
I can honestly say that for me, for my character, there is not a single bit of toxicity in my relationship with Astarion. I haven't heard a single devaluing remark from him in the entire game. Only the repulsion kiss after the bite is specifically toxic to me, and that's it. Astarion doesn't try to make Tav feel worthless like an abuser should, he doesn't try to lower her self-esteem, he doesn't try to criticize and hurt her with words, taking advantage of the fact that she let him get too close and started to trust him. On the contrary, he is absolutely and unconditionally in love, I feel confidence and peace of mind in such a relationship. I can love him with full commitment and not think about how I'm behaving or if it's "right" to behave that way in a relationship. I know that he will happily eat it and ask for more, with Astarion I can afford not to restrain my temper. I'm not blind and I realize that it's not like that for everyone, that not everyone gets high from possessive displays in their address, and from the opportunity to show themselves in return, but a person in this case either realizes that it's just a game, or they don't like it and they don't play that way, that's all. I am not interested in the topic of "red flags", I took self-defense courses, and I believe that if to promote in society first of all the ability to protect themselves, the possession of their bodies, knowledge of how to act in a dangerous situation, for all genders, it is much more useful, because in a real attack on the street no one will wave flags in front of it. The world is a dangerous place, it has been and it will be, and that doesn't mean you have to be "afraid", you just have to keep it in mind and take it into account when planning your actions. Sure, someone would probably benefit from knowing these " flags", but there are probably plenty of other avenues for that learning, like articles and movies. Hyping on this, ruining people's game, turning entertainment into mockery is the worst thing that can be thought of on this topic. The consumer can't be "learning material" for someone else, besides, it destroys the value of the game as a work of art, spoils the story.
