Originally Posted by Natasy
Originally Posted by starryophonic
I also want to add, if the intention for this or ANY game is to show abuse, gaslighting, or problematic behaviors, that can be incredibly triggering for many players (look how many people were triggered by the new AA kisses who previously did NOT find any of AA's behavior triggering). You can't just throw that stuff in a game without some kind of content warning. The player deserves to know what they're getting into.

THIS +1000

This would be so inappropriate.
This is an audience of adults. Many of us (myself included) have already learned these lessons in real life. We don't not need to be taught. This just reeks of misogyny.

I would never, ever buy a game that wants to teach me what it feels like to be abused. I already know what it feels like. The supposition that an author wants an audience to feel that is frankly really gross. Even novels and movies, you are watching it happen to someone *else*. It's not being put onto the audience. I can't even stress what an overstep and inappropriate thing this would be to do. Writers are not psychiatrists. It is not their place to trigger people just to make them know what it feels like. I have written two works, one published, one not yet, both with the major antagonist being an abuser. Making the audience learn a lesson IS NOT the place of the writer. You can show a story with themes. But this? Problematic, through and through.

+1000

If this (to show abuse) was their real intention with patch 6 kisses, then just wow, it would be one of the greatest failure in gaming history. These scenes (psychological experiments?) harmed a lot of people. The player sees an abusive and deviant sexual scene (with the player character's non-consensual behaviour) in a bubble, without connection to the rest, and beside, that most players of an RPG just want to have fun in a game and don't want to "roleplay" - especially empathetic women - how their character, with which a lot of people also put their shoes into, is non-storywise sexual abused or gaslighted without the possibility for the player/Tav, to talk about it afterwards = you cannot discuss this subject not even mention it ingame during or after the scene. I wholeheartly agree: "The supposition that an author wants an audience to feel that is frankly really gross. (...) Making the audience learn a lesson IS NOT the place of the writer." (and of a fantasy RPG) and "You can't just throw that stuff in a game without some kind of content warning."
There is still the hope, the intention was another one: To just include some horny fanfiction (BDSM, kneeling), which just went terribly wrong with Tav. Because I wouldn't buy a game either, if the intention is to teach and harm people (adults! and if children would be playing this, gods, how incredible!) for recontextualize their lifes, instead of bringing fun. I don't think fictional movies, books, games can educate people or children to become.. what.. "Morally good", a "Better human", "prepared for reallife" (What is the intention?) with using the methods of let the audience "feel" abuse, that is impossible. Most players, and (and especially) those who choose the ascension, are empathetic and already morally good people in reallife. (Btw. The majority of players are in their 30s). This is going wrong. Rather, some media could have a negative impact on people and children (e.g. propaganda, a lot of depictions of violence, or sexual violence), like e.g. lower inhibitions for some people (depends on their personality). Sad that Larian doesn't comment on this. By the way, I didn't "learn" anything. Except that it was a shot in the foot.

Originally Posted by Anska
I haven't made it through the whole talk yet, so my internal questons might be answered by the rest. I, too, thought the described portion of the act 2 scene was handled well and a brave addition.

I don't judge on whether this scene is well done or not. Though Astarion or the script is not so my taste here. I myself didn't choose a "mean" answer. But when a game writer writes a scene TO "teach" real people, that's really the wrong approach. The story with the break-up may reflect Astarion's personality or his past, so it's okay, but this scene doesn't "teach" nor "educate" anything. It's a fictional roleplaying game. Empathetic people may feel pity for the fictional characters, and non-empathetic people may see a break-up scene (without feeling being sad themselves, they only see a consequence), but it will and can not affect them or morally bad people in any positive way. They probably won't even "notice" it because they don't (can't) feel empathy. And that cannot be changed. An author or an RPG who wants to "teach", simply says here: Okay, you press answer a or b, you just want to see a sex scene, na na na na na, you won't get it! But that's all. They may reload and choose another answer, but they will not rethink their life. A game is not and cannot be a therapy. (The same, by the way, with Minthara's Durge Break-up scene from the hotfix - it only harmed empathetic players, instead of "educating" something.. eh..really questionable, especially if it's not consistent and storywise)

"I would, thank God, watch the universe perish without shedding a tear."