Originally Posted by Mirmi
Originally Posted by fylimar
If it were so simple, Cazi could just made spawns and kill them immediately, until the 7000 are full. The fact, there is this ritual would suggest, that this isn't the case - at least not in BG3 universe.
So basically you condemn those spawns to hell on top of having to kill the whole Gur tribe, which often seems to be forgotten by people. The Gur are innocents too, so not matter what, letting Astarion ascend is the evil solution.

Goblins may not be the most pleasant creatures on Fairun, but for some reason no one worries about clearing their camp, even though they didn't do anything to Tav's and his company. And the colony of intelligent mushrooms. And the Dwegars. No one cries about the cobolts in the temple. About the Manger (if they are destroyed) a little swearing Laezel and Orpheus, if he has time to speak out - that's it. Before the final battle, you can cut out all the Moon Towers and no one says a word.
That's my point, within the framework of events, the Gur tribe seems like something insignificant against this backdrop. And they approve of simply killing spavens, but killing in a ritual does not.

I'm assuming the ritual does send souls to the Mephestofil, whereas a simple kill sends them to the Fugu/Wall/City of the Dead. There's at least a logical dilemma and a "sinister devil contract". But then, there are creatures like:
1. Baatezu. Within the Fugu Plan, they hide in small enclaves. By agreement with Kelemvor, god of the dead, they cannot harm or deceive waiting souls. However, the devils are allowed to explain to the souls that they are dead and awaiting the arrival of a divine messenger who will take them to the realm of their deity. At this point, the devils attempt to make a deal with the souls.Baatez needs the souls, which they can use to create lemurs (a lower species of devils), which after a time will transform into more powerful devils in the service of the Nine Circles of Hell.
2. Tanar'ri. While the lawful Baatezu have a contract with Kelemvor that allows them to acquire souls, the chaotic Tanar'ri use a different method: they steal them. From time to time, the demon ruler creates a portal between Abyss and Plan Fugu. Many of the demons' cronies break through the opening, scratching holes in the wall of the Unbelievers, freeing some of the doomed and returning to Abyss. The demons raid the city on such occasions, collecting as many souls as they can before retreating.

So one way or another, some of the poor souls will still end up in Hell. Maybe not in service to Meph, but still.
But all this information can be obtained not from the game, but by reading the wiki. So it's not clear what the Larians have screwed up with the Ascension, what it is and what it's eaten with.

Back on topic, I rather liked the ambiguity the game left, and that you could interpret this or that in your own way. But here's this statement by the authors about dividing the paths into bad and good, about companions needing to be reinterpreted, makes the game worse in my opinion. It turns out that Tav, all Merry Sue, knows best how and who to live, and no one dares to say a word against and express their opinion.
- 200 years of torture? - No, you're a cute little puppy and you're just confused. (No, no, spawn don't bite, ew, bad.)
- Save your father or break the contract, Tav decides.
- Your parents sent you to the wolves in the woods, but that's a rite of passage, and Sharia law is ba ba ba.
- I don't remember how long Vlaakit ruled, but let's do a coup d'etat, because you're very harsh on the Gith. This is all sarcasm.

Asesdent - this is what Astarion wants for himself. Like Laezel to change his idol. Like Shadowheart to change deity. Why is it that while in Laezel and Shadowheart plan, if they aren't persuaded, they choose the right path, in Astarion's this is a bad way?
Maybe for him, his dark side is just as good for him...even if to the detriment of others.

The goblins attack others. They start it. If you enter the camp, they are eating a dwarf and torturing an adventurer. Still I make a point in only killing those, I need and never harm the children.
I don't kill the mushroom colony, they are nice and welcoming to me. I would argue, that killing them for that other monarch is the evil route.
I don't kill all the duergar either, but again, they are starting it and they are evil slavers.
Comparing the goblins and the duergar slavers with the Gur is kind of pointless, because it's not the same. The Gur have a reason to hate Astarion, they don't have the knowledge about him,we have, but they know, he took their children. And still they are willing to forgive him, if he brings their children back, even as spawns.

Every soul lands on the Fugue plane, from there, they move on to the domains of their gods, to devils they made a deal with or stay at the plane ( there was them wall of the faithless, but I think, that's not a thing anymore). And there, the children and other spawn have at least a chance to move on to better places. Gur worship Selune normally, so I'm positive,she would take those children in.

My point was to correct a few things said here, no one needs to defend their love/ appreciation for AA. If you like that route, do it, I was merely pointing out, that it entails killing innocents. If you say "I don't care" , then you do you. Minthara fans used to kill the tieflings for her. Emperor fans doom Orpheus. Raphael fans probably leave Hope to be tortured. It's your game and I just pointed out some things.


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