Originally Posted by Flooter
To answer the thread's actual question : I don't know if BG3 was overly sexualized, but I feel it was poorly sexualized, with either no or contradictory thematic relevance to the rest of the game.

This is pretty much my impression too, while not for the whole game and all the romances, then at least for Astarion's.

I had been discussing Astarion's act 2 scenes before the video popped up and the way Welch talks about it, pretty much confirm my issue with the scenes, especially the post-Araj scene. The way Welch talks about it, Astarion is the victim who can get further maltreated by an inconsiderate PC, only he is not. In his act 2 scenes, Astarion is both the victim and the abuser. He is the victim of Cazador but he also applied his internalised abusive behaviour to win over and exploit the PC.

In the Post-Yurgir scene, this gets addressed (as it starts with Astarion's confession) and you can very superficially express your concerns, in the Post-Araj scene, Astarion makes fun of you if you inquire if he only used you and shows no remorse for his actions at all. Instead of - or in addition to - the scene described in the video, which is a rare case not many people will naturally get, I would have liked it if the actual romance path had gotten more than fleeting consideration. How does Astarion deal with the PC he has come to care for, but whom he has maybe deeply hurt? The writing has no interest in this question, and instead of focusing on the connection between the two characters the romance is about and how they overcome this hurdle, it focuses solely on Astarion's pain.

This one-sided approach gets problematic down the line when it comes to the ritual. If you follow the whole Spawn vs Ascended discourse, it is solely focused on the importance of the ritual as a transformative moment, not on the ritual as an affirmation of Astarion's always abusive vampire-mindset. A mindset which Astarion overcomes on his spawn-route by learning to care for the PC and admitting that other people also have a right to be treated well.

Another topic that really bothers me in regards to Astarion is how the "dry spell" is handled. If you continue the romance with Astarion, you agree that you don't have sex for as long as he needs it. In the Post-Yurgir scene, he expresses a desire to experience "something real" but he has no idea what real intimacy looks like. The writing seems to have no idea what it might look like either, because it never bothers exploring this topic. The dry spell is treated as exactly that, a time of celibacy and denial, instead of one to explore the ways of the heart. I find this deeply disappointing for a game that wants to deal with all kinds of experiences, but is so completely unimaginative in this regard.


I think this is mostly an Astarion problem though. Gale's romance and general interactions do a marvellous job at showing character through player interaction and so do Lae'zel's. I think Gale and Lae's romances (at least what I have seen from Lae's) are also the best paced, as they are tied deeply into the main plot. As @ArneBab wrote above, if you romance Lae'zel obtaining the hammer and freeing the Githyanki becomes part of your romance because the matter is important to Lae'zel. If you romance Gale, tackling the brain and dealing with the Crown is the culminating moment of your romance. The writing of both characters also does not shy away from writing conflict between the characters and the PC, real sensible conflict that can be resolved in a way that strengthens the bond between them and the PC. The writing for those two gets far too little credit as does their amazingly nuanced voice acting.

Edit: As not to be too harsh. I agree with a lot of points in the video, I just think they are badly executed for Astarion - or at least Astarion & normal Tav. Especially the point that a romance should not culminate at the end of the story, is one I wholeheartedly agree too. And again this is something Gale and Lae'zel do beautifully as they both have the confirmation of the romance in act 2 and act 3 for both romances consists of planning your life together.

Last edited by Anska; 30/05/24 09:49 AM.