Great points. My one quibble is that I do think you can interpret some toxicity into the Ascended relationship, even if you pick only complimentary responses. For example, the "don't stray too far line," if your headcanon is that Tav and Astarion are mutually enjoying a power play, then that line is fine. But a lot of people get skeeved out by that line, because they, or their character, wants to see the relationship as equal. Same with the, "You await my command" line. Some (like me) think it's perfect. Others don't like it and find it indicative of potential very controlling behavior. BUT I do want to emphasize that even if there is toxicity, it doesn't make it an invalid choice for Astarion's story, nor does it let Unascended Astarion off the hook for some questionable behavior.
I think, all of Ascended Astarion's words are can be interpret in different ways, and I love it. "You may walk in the sunshine, but don't stray too far line". 1.Literally, since protection is not limitless. 2. Figuratively, i.e. don't stray from him plans. Or don't go against me. (Vampires, power-hungry creatures. And he's made a possible rival in you, and given sun protection you). "You will be surprisingly obedient." Likewise. Either we're on the same page, or I'll make you obey me. "You have it in you, too. You wait for my orders." Here I see the relationship dynamics. Or a kink reference. Now it's not me, it's you listening to me.
And on top of that, should we judge him harshly right after the ritual? He's up, he's emotional. He says a lot of things, but later, he calms down. Saying and doing (oh... kisses in Patch 6...) are different things. He offered an conversion, and exhaled if the PC agreed. If not, offended, but comes to apologize later.
Saying AA is going to be toxic and the further it goes, the more so, is like saying Spawn will always be obedient and good. It may or may not.
Is it controlling? Yes. Possessive? Yes. Is that the norm of the relationship? No. But, within the world and time frame where the action takes place, it is maybe normal. Is it an equal relationship? No. And I don't see equal in Spawn. Would it be an equal relationship with God Gale? I don't think so either. Not even with Will. If he takes his father's place, you'll be the same consort next to him. There's no equality. Liberty, my favorite argument is that AA is toxic. You've become a Spawn (or bride). What freedom. Spawns are bound to the creator. Brides are even more so, kill the bride, the creator will be screwed too. Of course he won't let go. We've seen and heard what Astarion told us about, fought Kasador who shouted "he's mine" at us, and still took the conversion. What freedom are we talking about? It's not in the game yet, but (if you leave with Karlach in Averno and watch AA's reaction to it, he says take a walk and come back to me).
Oh, I agree. I love how open to interpretation his lines are. When he said, "Just don't stray too far...but you'd never dream of doing that, would you?" I got chills. It's such a layered statement.
And that's a really good point, that within the world of the game, this dynamic might very well be the norm. It's funny to me how there's this double standard of, "AA route is bad because if applied to a real world setting, it would be a problematic relationship" but I've seen those same people make the argument that you can't hold Spawn Astarion to the same standards as you'd hold a modern man. Okay, then.
I was re-reading this thread for...fun, I guess, lol, and about 10 pages back there was a comparison of Unascended Astarion's allergy to sunlight to allergies in today's world, and someone pointed out that people find ways to work around allergies and disabilities all the time. BUT what I think a lot of folks forget is that allergies and disabilities that today can be easily managed quite often used to be deadly. Modern medicine and technologies have changed that, but BG3 lacks many of those. Sure, they have magic, but they still don't seem to have indoor plumbing. My point is, when you judge Astarion by the realities of the world that we live in today, yeah he comes off as pretty bad. But when you regard him in the context of the world of Faerun, suddenly a lot of his actions, at least to me, seem much more logical. I don't see why the same can't be applied to his romance. My Tav has spent her life sleeping in the dirt by herself. Of course she leaps at the opportunity to be taken care of by the man she loves. Equality in her relationship just isn't a priority.
