Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion [END SPOILS WARNING] Addressing Karlach (PLEASE PUT SPOILERS IN TAGS)

Yes, sorry. Peter Turbo is clearly an alt account created to evade a ban, from a user who previously bothered us with multiple sock puppet accounts.

This latest has been banned as per forum rules.

Please let us know of any similar issues in future using the post report functionality (flag) on each post.

Don't worry, maybe Larian didn't want to give her a happy ending, not every companion has to get one.

I mean, everyone else does.

I get the frustration, because put in perspective it does seem unfair when /everyone/ gets their happy ending except one companion. But also... I think it just undermines Karlach's story if she doesn't die and gets an easy way out (like they've added via the Epilogue "Zariel Forge"), I think. To me her story is about her coming to terms with the unfair death she has to face, and the struggles in doing so. If in the end it's just "Sike! You actually get to have everything you wanted!" that emotional arc feels a bit vacuous. I don't know what the point of all that would be.

I'm a hypocrite in that I tend to send her to Avernus to get more epilogue content, but I do think the scene where she dies makes for a better wrap-up of the character. It's tragic, and sometimes that just hurts so good! (And Wither's line at the party about how she's burning really bright in the Astral Plane is so sweet)

I don't think Gale's arc is the same (I definitely think the satisfying conclusion would be for him to live as a normal man), but I feel a similar way about Gale detonating himself if just because the scene where he does so is very good :P

Gale's arc resolves with a deus ex machina. I have completely ignored his quest after giving him the magical trash items he wants (and I wonder if this can't be skipped as well, by not talking to him). The explosive issue gets first put on hold by Elminster (divine intervention #1), the after the game he gets cured by Mystra (#2). Tbh, I cannot recall any other questline of this kind in all the cRPGs that I've played, where a companion quests is depicted as unsolvable but then gets resolved off screen.

Frankly, it leaves the impression that the companions in BG3 are written in bubbles; as if they did not co-exists in the same world. Karlach's story could have worked with her as the sole protagonist in a different game. But when you put these two together, it just feels petty that with one character you do nothing and get deus ex machina solutions, and with the other you cannot even try (e.g. ask for a divine intervention from Selune).

I think it's also a big problem with writing something set in Faerun. Lots of things are technically pretty easy to solve, but the writers have to pretend it isn't to tell the story they want to tell, set in a universe that has a LOT of things and solutions for conditions written over the decades.

Just typing that out made me realise that, for example, if SH decides to save her parents, I don't see why she couldn't chop her hand and have something like Regenerate cast on her later or get a prosthetic hand or something, because there's a precedent for that here. But the story they wanted to tell wouldn't work ""realistically"" (by this I mean within the established rules of the universe) if that were something she set out to do.

That is not to diminish the frustration felt- I like Karlach, but she's not my favorite character and I don't romance her, so I can't completely put myself in the posters in this thread's shoes. This is my point of view from someone who enjoyed her casually, but I do get how if you love her, seeing her story get cut short while others get to live on pretty happily feels like a kick to the gut.

It is not a problem with the setting itself, imo, but lack of direction in writing. It is fine if the writers in a cRPG ignore certain mechanics for the purposes of writing, but this has to be consistent. And it isn't in BG3.

For example, early in the game you are treated to a dramatic scene of the tiefling at the grove gate dying. Everyone is in mourning, while my party is standing there with a bunch of resurrection scrolls. Fine, so the scrolls could be just an in-game mechanics for the convience if the player, and do not exist from the point of view if the narrative. But not a long time later, Gale perishes in combat, and I am treated to a scene about obtaining a resurrection scroll for him. Now the narrative acknowledges such items exists. There is no consistency, as if every writer used the setting however they want.

If that's the case and the writers really put effort into writing we trying every option, her struggles, and discussions following it, then fine, except it's clearly not. Like many others have pointed out, we didn't even get the option to try "trying every option", that's not tragic unfair death, that's called killed by doing nothing. The theme of a story means poo poo, how well the theme is executed is everything. The real problem of Karlach is not she is not saved in the end, but her story is rushed, poorly executed and severely lacks content.

Plus, that's just not the writers' original intention, otherwise there won't be cut content about her being saved in the game file, and her burning to ash scene in the end won't be triggered by a "quest failed" tag. Saying it's always writers' intention it's just like Larian saying upper city wasn't cut and Act 3 is always meant to be like that. BG3 is a game that tries to applease as many people as it can, it doesn't afraid to give anyone a happy ending, no matter how deus ex machina, inconsistent, corny or even cringe that ending is, and when it comes to Karlach it's just this? Come on. She's not killed by an unfair world, she's killed by someone's mediocrity and studio not giving a shit.

Is there actual proof of this? All I've seen regarding this topic amounted to fandom urban legends. I datamine pretty frequently (not for Karlach, I'll admit) and follow datamining channels pretty closely and I haven't seen a peep of this. The flags for her death are "ORI_Karlach_State_EngineBurnedOut" (Described in the script as "Karlach's heart exploded") and even the synopsis provided seems to indicate it was pretty intentional.

I haven't seen and haven't been able to find the cut content with her being saved, only that impossible dialogue where she breaks the fourth wall.

My favourite playthrough involved my character romancing Karlach, choosing to become an illithid, Karlach burning up, and my character killing herself. It was tragic and beautiful. I miss having that ending being available. Maybe if you don't find any infernal iron ever?

I think an ending where Karlach is doomed could be satisfying and cathartic, but (like others have pointed out) I don't think the writing does enough to convince us that her condition actually is unsolvable.

We talk to only 1 NPC about her heart. We don't even bother to get a second opinion. The Gondians work with more advanced versions of the tech that make Karlach's heart. Neither she, nor the player bother to ask them for help. No one bothers looking into magical solutions.

The writers could probably come up with some sort of reason why these wouldn't work, but they didn't address it at all. As it is, it comes across as the player not trying to solve the issue, or we have to headcanon reasons the solutions wouldn't work. An obvious reason why the magical solutions are not achievable is cost, but that wouldn't make this a story about terminal illness. That would be a story about inaccessible health care. Of course people weren't satisfied.

As it is, I headcanon and metagame to get an ending for Karlach I'm happy with. I trigger Gale's first death before meeting Withers, and use up the Scroll of True Resurrection (ignore our scrolls of Revivify, shush). With the new epilogue, I'm headcanoning she will be cured. I'm happy with it becoming an escapist fantasy tale of teamwork and perseverance.

Yeah, the main issue with the story is, that we're not able to try most obvious ways to fix her. I finished the game for the second time few weeks ago with latest patch and there are some new dialogues, like they are trying to convince us, that she has to die, but the main issue is still present. We cannot use enriched infernal ore even common infernal ore helped us twice. Why???? Same with Gondians, there are dialogues about how they have newer heart models and so on, but can we ask them? No, why???? Have Karlach in party, talking with Gondians and doesn't have an option to ask if they can help is really stupid. Same with Dammon and enriched infernal ore in our inventory. If this is some side quest, ok, but this is main quest for your companion and even a origin character. Game with so many possibilities, where you can do almost everything, but not such an important choices??

As all avernus ending updates are far better than when I finished the game without any patch for the first time, the questions why is her quest so poorly designed still persist.