I'm late to the party but I still feel like saying a few things about that lecture.

While I agree with the notion that romance should not just culminate at the very end of the game (too formulaic and we don't really get to see the aftermath) and that it should be complex, there are just so many things that are wrong with the following statements I think the whole the panel paints Larian in a very bad way and makes me not want to buy their future games if this is the direction they intend to take.

I'll tackle some of the problems.

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So, what is romance?

Google says: "Romance or romantic love is a feeling of love for, or a strong attraction towards another person, and the courtship behaviors undertaken by an individual to express those overall feelings and resultant emotions. Romance is also the feeling of comfort and pleasure you experience in a relationship with someone you love."


What makes a romance?

Definition: "Two basic elements comprise every romance novel: a central love story and an emotionally satisfying and optimistic ending."
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The question asked there was: How do we make better romance for our players? Then we have more points about issues between two individuals that relate to breakup scenes, being cheated on, gaslighting and abuse.

My question is, how can these negative and even harmful actions be considered "courtship behaviours expressing love and feelings of comfort and pleasure"? Are these kisses fulfilling, giving us positive feelings and making us believe the relationship will continue?


This is not romance, this is THE END of it.



When in a player-driven romance have you ever...?

1. Seen a breakup scene that felt more like an 'escape' function?

I can think of Anders from Dragon Age 2 and his insane and out of nowhere lines in the early stages of the relationship about "drowning the world in blood for you". I ended the romance there because I had a feeling that guy would put me in a bad situation in the future and that him being possessed by Justice/Vengeance would result in something tragic at the end. I was right because I ended up being pressed against the wall and killing him for his stupid stunt.

2. Been "cheated on" by another character?

I didn't romance the guy myself but I've seen the vids. Jacob Taylor from Mass Effect 2 who impregnates another woman.

3. Been told the spark is gone from your relationship?

Again, Jacob. In the second game he confesses his love but then he can't be bothered to wait for Shepard for a few months while she's incarcerated and upon seeing her again, downplays his feelings and starts making pathetic excuses why he moved on.

4. Seen a character's psychological state deteriorate from a relationship?

When you have low heart level with your husband/wife in Stardew Valley (which is actually included in the slides during the speech) their psychological health does deteriorate. They start feeling morose, refuse kisses, doubt their life choices, start spending days in bed being depressed, stop doing house chores, etc.

5. Seen gaslighting?

If we take it as the act of grossly misleading someone especially for one's own advantage then I can think of several examples. Solas and Blackwall hide their identities and use the MC for their personal goals. The previously mentioned Anders also tricks the player to be complicit in his explosive performance.

6. Seen a partner become abusive?

You can be very abusive in Stardew Valley - throw rocks at your spouse, gift them items they hate on purpose, put obstacles in their paths to annoy them, cheat on them (with their best friends too), divorce them (even your pregnant wife), erase their memories and remarry them in a psychotic loop.

The only abuse from the NPC towards the player I can think of now is the ridiculous kiss bubble of AA/Tav, so congrats on the achievement I guess? Are you proud of yourself? This certainly didn't make the romance better for me and the vast majority of AAmancers.



What bugs me about this lecture is also the huge focus on fanfiction, while the game was made for gamers. It's great if there are fanfic writers and readers playing the game but they are not the target audience. If the game's intention is to spark a ton of fanfics, is putting something controversial in it so the players actually want to write or read something that would fix the story for them the best way to achieve that?

The logic behind it is also questionable. It is mentioned that games are very personal and different from just watching a movie and being an observer. Reading prose is the same as being in a theatre. The fact that fanfic writers like to explore hurt and people are interested in reading about it, doesn't mean they want to experience it themselves!



We also have this statement in the presentation: Wish-fulfillment is forgettable.

Erm... what the fuck? So forced drama and tragic events are cool because we can recall them better? Don't studios want their games to be remembered for being good, coherent, rewarding and playable for as long as possible?

Why do people play and mod Morrowind to this day, and have been working on recreating the whole game on Skyrim engine for more than a decade? Because it was great, it gave them an amazing feeling to be in that world so much so that they have a hard time parting with it after more than two decades since the release!
Compare that to Mass Effect 3 endings. Players got hurt, angry, felt betrayed, the game got memed into oblivion and many people stopped wanting to play the previous installments because of the atrocious writing.

DAI has that forced decision between Warden Alistair and Hawke having to sacrifice themselves, which essentially destroys one of the players' older romances. The author of that scene was also gleeful about it. Guess what? People hated it. Many women who romanced Alistair felt the need to cheat and edited their savegames to have a random warden take the plunge instead of one of their beloved characters.

Seeing how many AAmancers have quit playing BG3 and don't even want to buy Larian's future games because of the crappy writing and railroading, myself included, I can only applaud the studio for a brilliant business tactic that will result in the loss of money. Good job!



Also, promoting degeneracy with Halsin and ruining his EA personality for shits and giggles. What's next, an outlet for pedos, like Zayir wondered?

Clearly Larian wants to cater to minorities, even very obscure ones at the cost of alienating the majority who buys games to relax, roleplay, immerse and enjoy themselves in a new setting. Again, fantastic move. Bravo! Encore!


Originally Posted by starryophonic
Okay, this is a ton of text, but, am I reading this right? They actually said they to make the players feel bad? They want to introduce abusive situations into video games? That's so disheartening to think that someone would be put in charge of an aspect of a game that means so much to so many people, and then gleefully brag about making it less pleasant. To what end?

Mx. Welch, if you're somehow reading this, I respectfully think you've woefully misinterpreted what players want in a video game romance, particularly when it comes to Baldur's Gate. We're not asking for our every whim to be met. We're simply asking for a fun experience where our characters are allowed to act and react in ways that make sense.

This. It looks like the author is trying to merge two different types of media and acting like some kind of activist and self-proclaimed pioneer and relationship expert, while not understanding the basic concept of romance.