Originally Posted by Sini
No, there are no changes to the text between Dark Urge and Tav, neither in Oblodra nor in Yurgir. With Yurgir you can chose different ways to deal with him and Raphael's demands.

Of course, Oblodra is the easier route and many will have chosen this route in their first playthrough. I don't like it when Astarion wants a romance with me because he is grateful.

Depending on your text selection in Act 3, both AA and Spawn Astarion will want to protect you from Oblodra or comment on them. They react differently.

It's a shame DU doesn't add anything to the first meeting with her, really, I wasn't really banking on it, or I'm sure someone would have posted about it...

In the third act you can still have fun killing her by pouring out her potion, she'll be pissed off that you messed up her life's work. I loved Astarion's line about wanting to see her dead body in a sewer somewhere. I then dragged her body that way to dump it in the sewers like he asked, it's hilarious. smile At that lovely time while I could still make out passionately with him afterwards.

Originally Posted by Sini
According to Withers, mindflyers have no soul.
The entire story of the game is based on this statement.

In D&D, illithids, like all living sentient beings, have a soul. They are part of the Far Realm and outside of it, their souls would fall, most likely, into the Astral Sea. But their souls do not, and cannot, belong to the gods, so Withers as Jergal's scribe may well say so. Their souls are useless to the gods; to the gods it is like saying �no soul�. All the souls of the beings of the Far Realm seek to return to their plane, but since it is far away, they are likely to settle in the Astral Sea.

Originally Posted by KiraMira
A very good point. I think it's a reason we don't see victim/abuse stories in RPG's like BG3, it just don't fit. If they do somehow make it work (in another project, not with Astarion!) I would be very surprised and maybe intrigued(in a curious neutral way). It would still not be a romance though if the premise is partner abuse. Only way I have seen romance and abuse in the same story is if the ex is the abuser and the new romance is the rescuer. Kinda like Astarion and Tav getting revenge on Cazador and freeing Astarion from his abuser to live togheter forever in eternal love. It was the best romance story I have come across so far, so I hope we can get back to that in the next update.

By the way, the story is perceived completely differently if you play as a given character than if you play as a sort of �yourself�. The only way I can imagine where there could be some cruelty in a romance is if you imagine a story with a kidnapping or captivity, and that should be the beginning of a story that then develops. For example, if the already self ascended �Astarion�, who had no help from anyone, who achieved everything on his own, killed everyone who got in his way etc, lonely and evil, picks up Tav, dying after some fight, and makes a spawn. At first there might be conflict and attempts at �enslavement�, then Tav might find some information about their captor, get to know him more, learn his plight, there might be some dialogs between them. Help him in an emergency, causing the same surprise as with �Really?� in Act 2, then gradual bonding and romance. For example. But I truly want to see that story as you described, it really is the best love story ever, and to live together in eternal love. How could such a beautiful story be ruined, why? In order to �show abusive behavior� instead of such a touching and heartfelt story?

Originally Posted by KiraMira
I have also seen Dark romance been called a trope, and been given the feeling a Vampire romance is somehow boring and overdone. But I have not seen any romance like Astarion and Tav in any other game I have played. I think it is really unique the way it is done in BG3 and the story is really good. I just hope it isn't thrown away for the sake of making something "exciting and new" because it truly is excellent as it is. Name me a game with a Dark romance as deep as you can get with Astarion and I will happily look it up.

Of course! I've never seen a romance like Astarion either, and if anyone ever does something like this in its worthy incarnation, I'll run right out to buy it!

Originally Posted by starryophonic
I've been burned by a lot of books that promised me a spicy vampire romance but the vamp in question was just...a depressed wet noodle.

Nightmare... Reminds me of Astarion, who was denied Ascension. Well, he's certainly not a noodle, but depressed.

Last edited by Marielle; 03/06/24 08:00 PM.
One life, one love - until the world falls down.