That Astarion would be broken and evil after Ascension was something hinted at multiple times, so I think that’s not surprising, but the scenes should not trigger common traumas (and sadly domestic violence traumas are common in our society).
This is more than surprising, as it completely contradicts both the story and the logic of the game, previous and subsequent lines, dialog, etc. Just like you and Lae'zel and all the other companions - the kissing scenes have nothing to do with the plot of the game. Broken, thankfully Astarion won't be made, Swen said the plot of the companions won't change. Do you remember if that was hinted at in any articles? About Astarion being “broken” I haven't seen it. As written above, the romances are not related to the game's plot, without the romance Astarion ascends fine, without any problems or “consequences”. All the “evil” is solely in the romance. The hints can probably be considered the romance author's desire to make the player feel like a failure:
I didn’t even romance Astarion and for me the evil of ascended Astarion was obvious. Before the ending he is distant and fully selfish and In the new ending he becomes the new lord who oppresses people in the region, only caring about his new powers.
Originally Posted by Marielle
Originally Posted by ArneBab
Regardless of the reason: that’s something they should fix. Because from watching these scenes, I would see ending the relationship at once as the only option. The ascension obviously causes Tav to hate the intimacy, without any ambiguity, so I see no reason the character would ever ask for it again.
Yeah, that's right. And it seems very unfair to me when a person who paid full price for a game upon release is suddenly, after another “update”, forced to end any relationship with that game. Yes, Tav is indeed forced, modders found in the game code a description of Tav's facial expressions as: “ hurt, fear, pain”. What kind of person would play that? Only people with very “special preferences” who specifically create Tav women to their liking and play for the sake of those scenes. I don't feel that such sexualization is necessary, and that it's worth throwing previous players out of the game for the sake of this audience. I tried to test this and played for about three days - it's really bad for a person's mental state.
The GDC talk on animation said that the facial expressions are separate from the motion capture, so it might actually be possible to first fix this in mods and maybe also fix it in an update later.
Because I think that this is really an error: it is inconsistent.
Two reasons:
- If they say “but that’s perhaps what you like”, then the face “hurt, fear, pain” isn’t the right one. The main character is not Astarion but Tav, and if you (only) get to this point if you like this, you won’t make this face. - Kissing is initiated by Tav, not by Astarion, so having it be something Tav doesn’t like isn’t plausible.
So — in addition to being damaging to players with experience of domestic violence — Tav should not make this face for plot reasons.
(feel free to quote me if you decide to report this as bug)
Originally Posted by Marielle
Originally Posted by ArneBab
Yes, I prefer having these bad options. Ideally with a way out. But if not: I also like playing a devils bargain in a game to have a better idea later about the consequences of that.
Ah, I was ambiguous (sorry): I didn’t mean the D&D devils bargain. I meant doing something that may have a price. Stuff like killing Isobel to gain the strength of the slayer (though I think you can only really feel the tragedy if you played a regular playthrough before: the difference between saving Isobel and killing Isobel is huge, and it hurts, but that’s a self-chosen consequence).
Originally Posted by Marielle
Originally Posted by ArneBab
I once played someone who betrayed all his friends. That taught me that this is something I cannot stomach. That to me losing everything would be preferable to betraying my friends.
I can’t get that kind of self-reflection without trying it out.
I have to admit, I had a similar self-analysis in BG3, even though the rails scene led to it. Indeed, for me, rethinking the meaning of the social construct of kneeling as a symbol of humiliation was far preferable to seeing the tears, pain, and vulnerable and dependent state of a loved one and ending up in the shoes of an utterly vile creature who is drinking in a tavern to her victory with her “friends” while her loved one is out there somewhere, behind crates on the docks, huddled in a lump, healing his wounds. I realize it's also rails, and Tav has no choice, but I won't roleplay something like that under any circumstances.
Yes, and they should really fix this, at least if Astarion is your romance. It should actually be possible: the Astarion-scene is already late in the epilogue, and they could push it last and make Tav follow and help Astarion. Having to flee from the sun need not be degrading — if you’re together. And they could just drink in a dark bar (with shuttered windows)?
Also maybe make the narrators comment more positive towards Astarion; that felt off (I just finished my second playthrough a week ago: the comment is more snarky against Astarion than it should be. After all, he gave up on the sun to stay himself).
They’d need some more motion capture for this (i.e. Tav throwing a blanket over Astarion to shield him from the sun), but as far as I can tell they have new mocap planned for added evil endings, so that may not break their process.
