Why leave positive, happy lines in the game if *every kiss* is fearful? It's so inconsistent.
If you've made a dialogue path to build a story of being happy with Astarion, one that has existed since the start of the game, trying to negate that suddenly, half a year after release, by forcing the character to not enjoy something the player does and already has for more than a few playthroughs is so beyond silly, it's horrible writing.
Honestly, end of the day, Larian has failed to make me feel bad for ascending. All they have done is irritate me as the devs (not at the character) and wish to not buy anything from them. His spawn route is not happy to me. It is depressing to me. He seems unhappy and disingenuous, and trapped in fawn response to me.
If your goal is to make AA a no no lesson for adults, maybe try to making spawn actually *feel* like his happy ending. Don't lock his "I love you" confession behind agreeing to have sex with him. Give him lines that make him sound happy to see the PC. That make him sound sure of his feelings for them. And like he actually enjoys them. Not just like his "fate is sealed".
Don't just sour the grapes of another writer with bad expressions on the PC half a year after release. AA is going to draw dark romance enjoyers. No matter how one writer or another may *feel* about the players for that. It's not the writers job to judge their audience.
You're not going to make AA unattractive to people who already enjoy him. You're just going to make your own audience dislike you as the creator for trying. And not buy things from you in the future for judging them so harshly.
Controlling what a player likes in a RP game isn't possible. This isn't a static fiction novel or a movie. This is a story built on the players personal preferences. Acknowledge their view point. That is what makes satisfying RPG writing. Making the players feel seem by integration into the game.
Very well said. And where the authors managed to realistically and genuinely make me feel bad is on the spawn route. It feels very heavy, and I will only agree to make that choice if I suddenly need to test some antidepressants and see how they work. But I personally don't take that as a minus, but as a plus. It was realistic. I was not able to go all the way through with this option, but the feelings I had while doing so were a real reaction to the story when immersed in the game. Ascension made me feel great. Only some noticeable script problems that immediately stick out specifically as script problems, spoiled roleplay, inappropriate lines, etc. But everything else made me feel happy. The kisses with bad expressions hurt a lot the first one, but then... Bad scenes, scenes that are clearly incongruous with the story and script of the game. The face of someone made up victim instead of my character's face.
AA is not going to be made unappealing to his fans. Fans want the real story of AA, and will make it mods, and really just never buy anything else from you in the future. Sadly, already many AA fans have simply abandoned the game and bought other studios' games, such as praising Rogue Trader for the fact that the authors approached "dark romance" much more intelligently there. The only thing that can be achieved by "edifying" the player is to alienate the player and cause criticism on their part. But the very image of Astarion has turned out to be so hooking that I don't want to just abandon him, please don't try to ruin that! Why? Don't loyal players deserve the right to a happy game? I don't like the "good" option, but I have no beef with it, just give the option to go the "evil way" with enjoyment! It's an RPG, an RPG should allow different walkthrough options for players. And the game itself, a great game, doesn't deserve to be seen by a portion of the fandom solely as a platform for modding because their romance in the original is badly written and contains traumatizing content.
Game characters can be forced to make certain choices. Players themselves cannot be forced. We are living people, and the "persuasion" test doesn't work on us (although what we saw in patch 6 is more like "intimidation", but that doesn't work either). Players are adults and are quite capable of judging the quality and realism of a story. The player in an RPG has to be included in the story, otherwise no one will believe the story. "Abusive Relationship Novel" is completely unnecessary to me, I would never buy this by choice. I bought a AAA class RPG. Please take into account those players who expected to see something in the game that fits its genre. Especially when players are already used to a normal game, to introduce such a distortion of history six months after release is just not fair, because people paid money for this not for this. And it's not the game they voted for, and it's not what they recommended to their friends either. Please bring back the romance of Ascended Astarion!
Originally Posted by Celesti4
Although I'm very grateful for the amazing modders and all the work they've done to make it more bearable, I still worry for new players who aren't yet aware of those kisses and will blindly click for a kiss with him, expecting something sensual and enjoyable but getting hit with those victim-Tav/DUrge scenes. I want the devs to do something to avoid that happening so that more people don't get triggered. New players may even click for a kiss right after the ritual and before the Turning scene, which would be even more jarring and awful. Edit: I'm imagining having to see the kneeling kiss before you even got the chance to see the kneeling scene during the night when he turns you. :'(
I agree. Not all people follow gaming events, some people buy games a considerable amount of time after release just by looking in the store and picking something that might give them a few nice hours of enjoyment. These scenes for such a person will be unexpected. And yes, it can happen before the conversion scene. It's worth it to just not immediately go to the camp after the ritual, but decide to go somewhere else and kiss Astarion as usual. I myself have no idea how I would have reacted if this had happened in my first game without spoilers. Even after watching the video and having time to be upset, knowing what was going to happen, still for the first time "on my own" - for me it was the worst gaming experience, the likes of which I have not felt yet in any game. Dear developers, this just needs to be fixed!
