Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Concentration: Low Level Spells

I was just thinking about all the concentration spells I never cast, particularly as my Character scales up in power. Spells that should be entertaining or thematic for certain characters types, but which just never get used at all after a certain point, because they compete directly with other concentration spells that are just better.

Examples might be a spells like Faerie Fire, Bless/Bane, Protection from Good/Evil, Hex etc at lvl 1. Or spells like Web, Blur, Crown of Madness, Phantasmal Force etc. at lvl 2. Other concentration spells remain situationally useful and somewhat competitive throughout, say Invisibility, or stuff like Hold Person or Silence, Darkness and Cloud of Daggers etc. Anything that can be upcast too, for sure, but as a general rule once you unlock the 3rd level concentration spells most of the 1st and 2nd level concentration spells become totally obsolete. Is anyone really going to cast Web over Haste, like ever? heheThe same thing happens at the lvl cap, where eventually even the OP 3rd level concentration spells are totally eclipsed by the 4th/5th level concentration spells, stuff like Hold Monster. At the level cap if the choice is between Globe of Invulnerability and say... Web?

You know what mean hehe. But this makes me a little sad, because often it's the low level concentration spells that give a lot of the flavor components I enjoy for characterization. I'm thinking not just the arcane type casters, but also Priests and Druids and such, even the half and quarter casters. Thematic spells like Bless or Barkskin or cool spells like the Flaming Sphere or Flame Blade or Heat Metal, they just lose out to stuff that is more mechanically useful for the concentration requirement. Like Flaming sphere vs Spike Growth or Fog Cloud say, stuff that inhibits enemy movement or lines of sight, at the same or a lower spell lvl. Or I don't know, any of those compared to real show stoppers like Spirit Guardians.

For cantrips there aren't all that many that require concentration, mostly just for exploration I suppose, maybe dancing lights or resistance I guess (only ones I can think of right now that have combat applications.) But for lvl 1 there are some standouts that do seem like they might be cool, if they weren't made immediately defunct by stuff that's way more useful when we lvl up. This veers dangerously into homebrew territory I'm sure, but I can't help but think some of the weaker levelled spells might drop their concentration requirement as the character progresses to a higher tier of power further along in the campaign. So for example, perhaps at Caster lvl 6 the first level spells in the class list no longer require concentration. At Caster lvl 12 maybe the same happens for the 2nd level spells in the class list, or something along those lines.

If that seems like too much rule bending, perhaps the same could be achieved via itemization, like maybe a sentient wand or special tome or whatever that does some of the concentrating for us? Might be doable. They probably have hella telemetry to show which concentration spells get cast all the time vs spells which never get cast, so maybe just going down the list they could do for the spells that don't get much play otherwise and then sprinkle some know-it-all Grimoires around the campaign. It might also be handled via a feat similar to magic initiate or warcaster, but with a theme like ascended concentration. I think it's kinda amusing how a warcaster can get yeeted off a cliff and somehow maintain concentration, and yet it's a complete impossibility to concentrate on more than one thing at a time hehe. I know these rules come straight over from D&D, but there are other areas in the game where liberties were taken, say short rest or how spells are prepared and whatnot, so it doesn't seem like a huge stretch. Especially if it was done via items or campaign specific boons that might make sense, something via the tadpoles even?

Anyhow, just an idea. I'm sure I can't be the only one who's pondered this dilemma. It'd just be cool to have a bit more flexibility so the caster archetypes could feel a bit more variable or custom style in that way. You know like so players could make the Arachnomancers and such if they want to, and use Web for fun combos without feeling like we're making a bad joke lol.

ps. for Web specifically, it's just so easy to destroy right? Like half the time it just turns into a flaming surface anyway. It might be interesting if web somehow got stronger with lvl or it could create larger surfaces over subsequent turns by being recast. I think another issue for these types of spells is just the party cap at 4 working against overall variety, because your 5th wheel isn't really there to handle the wingnut experimental stuff. You know tactics that perhaps aren't optimal but which might scratch the itch for RP.

I'm not really thinking here about ways to make Shadowheart or Gale more boss than they already are, but more for the Tavs. Even if it was a one off for the main, to me that would seem like a cool approach. Some classes like Wizards and Clerics have to weight which spells are going to get cast via preparation already. Usually that's where the tough calls have to get made about which concentration spells are going to get cut, like making a tier list every morning based on what's going to be most reliable... So another option might be an item that does some sort of Minor Sequencer thing there, where the theme is that a chopsen concentration becomes non-concentration when prepped that way? Might be another callback that could fit the BG vibe. Not to get too into the weeds about the relative power of spells, since it's always a mixed bag and that's unavoidable probably, but some spells you just kinda wish did more for the concentration trade off. Maybe specialist Wizards could get that as some kind of perk or item by magical school as a way to slide something in. Probably each class has a couple spells that could just be folded into class focused items I suppose. I think casters and the emergent play there is pretty solid in BG3, but the break concentration goofs or competing concentration stuff is sorta the bane of the game for me there. I feel like the choices just sorta flatten out after we peak, and it's a lot of the usual suspects at the lvl cap especially. Would be nice to see that revisited somehow, even if it's down to mods, though it'd be cool to see a precedent there since what works for BG probably translates downstream. What concentration spells come to mind for the rest?

First off... Wut? Hex is one of the better concentration spells in the game explicitly because it does scale with level. As you get more Eldritch Blast beams (Or extra attacks as whatever form of Bladelock) its power increases, especially given its spell slot efficiency of one per long rest (Provided you don't lose concentration). To say nothing about synergy with Scorching Ray to completely obliterate a single target...


For the most part, the issue isn't so much the power level of higher level spells. But rather the complete and total non-factor that Long Resting is.

As anyone can Long Rest essentially as much as they could ever want and refresh all their spell slots on a whim, there's no real pressure to maximize spell slot usage. So you're free to spam whatever level spell you want. Upcast whatever you want. You're nover forced to use lower level spells because you're out of options.

Unlike TT DnD or other DnD based games (Like WotR), where Long Resting is limited, you have to manage your spell slots more carefully, so utilizing lower level concentration spells can be worthwhile so you have options to use high level non-concentratiion spells like Fireball or Fireball and sometimes even Fireball.


Yes, in some cases, certain spells have concentration requirements without much reason. They're not particularly noteworthy in power but still have a concentration requirement that just makes them infinitely less usable... Notably things like Barkskin, Web, Phantasmal Force, Vampiric Touch, Divine Favour/Crusader's Mantle, Beacon of Hope, Grasping Vine etc. (Seriously, I can conjure up a huge pile of grease no problem. But a web? No I have to concentrate to ensure that exists...)


I've pondered having some Wizard subclasses able to concentrate on 2 of their school spells at once (Especially the lackluster subclasses like Illusion...)

But overall, I just gripe at the entire DnD rulings of Concentration. I'm just not a fan of the 2 main forms of Concentration I've experienced with the ruleset. Be it the 2.5e "When casting in melee range you have a concentration check and failing it means an attack of opportunity" (Especially with classes like Magus who's entire existence is based around combining spells and melee attacks) or this 5e "Certain persistent spells require concentration and you can only maintain concentration on one spell at a time"

They've always felt just completely arbitrary and simply there to be annoying or restrictive for no good reason.

I've always felt that if a "Concentration" mechanic was necessary, it would be something involving exceedingly powerful spells with multiple rounds of cast time (For example, Aarau's destroy universe) whereby their cast time would require concentration rolls to continue if attacked, but their payoff is as a result above and beyond your typical spells that you can nonchalantly sling at will. Thus creating a direct risk vs reward scenario, you risk losing concentration and the spell cast (Meaning however many rounds you spent casting it, the spell slot and any materials it required) but for a more potent spell.

Not to mention interesting tactical implications if an ENEMY is casting such a type of powerful spell (Especially when considering character creation. Like, maybe you consider having a highly mobile Rogue/Monk that can easily infiltrate the backlines to try and mess with casters to prevent these spells. Perhaps a game designer incorporates subclasses like PoE2's Mage Slayer subclass for its Barbarian that excels in disrupting spells etc)

But I guess this would mostly only be relevant for Larian's future games that aren't (Loosely) based around the established DnD ruleset...

Yeah maybe I was sleeping on Hex there. It stacks up alright, but somehow that's the one that had me accidentally breaking concentration, cause it's like 'oh bonus' but then I goof, cause of course lol. I was trying a tome warlock so it was competing with haste, might have also been my problem. I haven't tried too many Warlocks. Probably not the best example coming off the top of my head, although I was thinking many times how much I wished it wasn't competing with many other spells that run. I just love the spells like that, where we get to pick a bunch of options and which have satisfying casting animations or sounds. One thing larian did a pretty good job of was making some of these spells just feel really nice to use, and Hex has that sort of feel. Similar to the Eldritch Blast and Flame Ray sizzle, with those very satisfying pings coming in rapid succession, Hex has that necrotic effect like the life force draining away that I really enjoy. Anyway, probably getting myself caught in the weeds for specifics again, but just more a general feeling that it would have been fun if concentration was not quite so strict, or became less so, like progressively as we gain experience.

Also unrelated/related, but I always liked the idea that if concentration is going to be a mechanic that it might be a bit more lively, where losing concentration or crit failing might sometimes result in losing control or having wild-magic-surge stuff happen instead of just the spell totally fizzling out. Like some kind of concentration drift instead of an all or nothing there, but not sure how that would look. I also dig some option for frantically casting from a book, like tearing out pages for scrolls, which might somehow allow us to blow past concentration requirements. So say where if the spells is already known but being cast from a scroll, that there might be some benefit for non-concentration there, if using the more limited resource. Basically a way to make scrolls used by an experienced spellcaster more effective than by a non-caster, beyond just whatever spellcasting ability score or check. We do get some psionic tadpole abilities that can make having a weak concentration spell active give more of a payoff, but it's a bit one dimensional, like just for a damage punch to wrap things up. The concentrated blast one I mean. Every now and again someone still has guidance up and it's like 'oh wow, bam!' but I was looking more for the flavor of some of those standard spells at the lower end. It's tough cause I'm sure any change to core stuff as written here would raise eyebrows, but the concentration dynamic is just one of those things that doesn't really grab me, least in the BG context. Takes a lot of getting used to.

ps. another issue that I always have, which probably plays into my impression here, is that whenever I'm the full caster I don't usually want someone else cramping my style or stepping on my toes. Like probably I should have had Gale as some sort of vile S'wizard to twin cast the Haste so I wouldn't be tempted to do it myself. There's never enough room with 4 though. For party comp I mean, but even there if going with say 2 similar casters deep for overlap, I feel like I'd still have trouble casting a lot of those lvl 1 or 2 concentration spells for flavor, instead of just some sort of wild super blast to open where I'd probably get stuck in the same loops. Just defaulting to the best concentration I had, and whatever blast package to compliment. It feels like choosing a variety of competing concentration spells for overall versatility is just bad for business usually, and anything that favors the big burst in a single encounter totally outclasses the stuff that's more long haul over successive encounters or situational. Like in my head when choosing what spell to learn or prepare from the list or who to take along for the ride based on the best in class, it's hard to slot in stuff that's like Enlarge/Reduce specialist which maybe I'd try otherwise, if there was a 5th character hehe.

pps. Perhaps having a Concentration distinction by class/magic type? So having like Arcane Concentration vs Divine Concentration vs Eldritch Concentration. Something along those lines? Maybe a multiclass priest/mage might be able to have a spell like Bless up without that also interfering with their Wizard concentration spells? Say where concentration was pooled differently by class level, or something similar. Maybe introducing a concept like Concentration vs Full Concentration, just so there's some kind of gradation there and a little room for the give and take. More powerful spells or upcast spells might be more demanding in that regard, as a way to balance stuff out. Trying to imagine a situation where some of the interesting multi-class caster concepts might allow more mix and match for their concentration spells, just to give more flavor flexibility.

Interestingly, that can actually be more useful for a PC. Since if you take the place of Lae'zel in the Zaith'isk and succeed in the skill checks, all tadpole powers become bonus actions. Allowing Concentrated Blast to be effectively a guaranteed hit Cantrip when combined with using a Standard action on something like Guidance or True Strike and then using your bonus action on Concentrated Blast.

It's still a bit niche given things like Eldritch Blast... But it can be useful for Clerics and Druids whom don't get good offensive Cantrips (Spore Druid gets Bone Chill at least), saves you having to pick up Spell Sniper (And dealing with the annoyance that is the inability to put spells obtained by feats onto the Custom action bar to be able to use keybinds to select them...)


Aye. BG3 is bound by DnD rulesets. Which while somewhat lenient (Larian has done a lot of homebrewing) still has some basis from which to design from. Which leads to various oddities (Amplified by Larian trying to do their own thing as much as they can which can create even more strange interactions)


Personally I've never had such problems. I have no issues with having 2 similar characters in a party (My only concern is ensuring that characters don't compete for items, but there's plenty of caster items to have even a full party of casters without issue)

Nor have I EVER been tempted to use Haste. Like, I can make 1 character attack a couple more times? Great... OR I can lay down a Wall of Fire and burn EVERYONE to a crisp?

Twin Haste can be more competitive, as you can make 2 characters attack more... But at that point why don't I just go all in on the best Haste provider in the game, Spore Druid? Where you can get the robes in Act 3 that let you use Haste Spores to give your enitre party Haste without concentration...


If you're on PC, you can mod that. You can have even more than 5 people in your party if you wish.

Hehe distant Firewall has gotta be one of the most satisfying spells in the whole game for me! The burning animations and high quality death howls there are like the BG3 equivalent of those BG1 chunk animations I loved so much. Using that one on the Death's Shepard area in the Illithid Colony is a highlight for me. Like watching Zombies mindlessly charge forward to their scorching doom - kited down a long narrow hallway engulfed in draconic flames - it's a real feel good moment! Or like later on doing the same shit, but with the black hole on top, yowza!

I'm not a particularly great or attentive D&D player, and BG3 is much the same for me, so it'd be hard for me to extrapolate much from these impressions I have of which concentration spells blow hardest. I find myself making goofy decisions and nerfing myself in awkward ways too, which I feel makes up for some of the powergamer in me otherwise. Somehow I really do like the idea of starting out with what (to my mind) feels like a sensible RP nerf, but then min-maxing the hell out of other stuff, from the somewhat sub par starting point. Or I'll be all bending over backwards to do arbitrary things, like save Alfira with my knockout route, since I feel next to nothing for Quill and that way the Cantrip robes are still an option lol. Lae'zel is almost always in the party, and I'm usually finding myself at the Zaithisk right at level 5, pushing her out of the way and diving into the chair to make sure the Dream Guardian steps in. I think I've only had it happen once where I couldn't pull that one off with 4 points of inspiration for the rerolls just to get the primo buff. My prob with the tadpole abilities is invariably just my own vanity, cause I don't like the astral tadpole look at the end, unless I'm wearing scales.

Sadly I haven't played this game with a mod since the patch where they dropped Honour Mode on us. Like I don't even have the Native Tweaks/WASD standards anymore, for fear of borking too many saves if some random hotfix were to come through. Current save folder looks like this... Where all the Dins are some version of a Draconic Sorcerer Durge, with a dip.



I run it up to act 3, get distracted in the Lower City, become fixated on some new idea and then groundhog it all over again. I've done it so many times now, but keep coming back. My Dragons all get down with the Tadpole, but then when I tried the same for my Witches, the visualization change was always bugging me. They're mostly Elves or Tiefs




Runa Vall tried Wood Elf Sorlock, and she's the farthest along right now, currently twiddling her thumbs at Jaheira's house.

Vexa tried for a pure class Tome Warlock so I'd have someone to compare with, also a Wood Elf, but she died at lvl 8 before I got my cool Summons and a real feel there, alas.

Heathers is trying the opposite approach, pure class Draconic Sorcerer but taking the Magic Initiate in Warlock. I feel like I will miss the repelling and agonizing blasts, but so far so good. I went Fire Dragon for Runa Vall, so Heathers is going Poison, which I know is a terrible plan, but I wanted to be Green. Like I still just have a soft spot for the idea of Cloudkills in Rivington, even though the spell is rough by that point. She's a Tief too, so the Mantle doesn't look all that great. I usually have to just roll destitute clothes so the clips won't annoy me, hence that other ramble in the clipping thread.



I was all fixated on that for a while there, before I just gave up and decided to embrace the camp of it all. Destitute Clothing with a dye generally.

I recruited Veronica Sunblossom from Withers to run the Goodberry gang. I wanted Jah Din to be my JD for that, since he was the first across the line with Honours, but no Dragonborn models were on offer among the cultists. Had me just bringing the gals back from the dead for that. I also like to recruit an Imoen sometimes, just to have her there, even though nobody talks to Imoen, cause her voice isn't quite right hehe

I haven't tangoed with the custom hotbar in many months, that sounds mildly infuriating that the spells from feats can't be added there!? I keep hoping that the mod stuff will really have it humming after a couple years in the oven, since I'm sure I'll be playing this game forever, but knowing myself I'm sure I won't get around to it until there's some sort of mega mod package that feels all integrated. I'm on PC but haven't tried a 5th wheel yet. Right now I worry that I'm just going to hose my install somehow by just not really knowing what doing, so I shy away still. Anyhow, I'm probably spitballing overmuch on potential solutions. Probably the sorts of things I'd like to see might make other players balk - like spellcasters are already powerful enough or whatever. But I think if there were more options to work around concentration requirements, I'd probably just use that to do the absurd quixotic stuff rather than power plays. Like I just wanted some sorta Web Cloudkill combo, even if it's janky hehe.

Yeah, I'm a fan of the Fire Wall + Hunger of Hadar combo. Big black blinding, slowing pit of frosty, acidic, fiery death. With Lae'zel and Karlach playing quarterback and throwing any enemies that escape... Back into the pit!


Same... But you can get all the T1 and T2 tadpole abilities and still decline the Astral Tadpole (Albeit with a DC20 Wis check). And of course, one of the first mods for BG3 was to remove the ugly tadpole effects...


To be honest, I wouldn't worry too much about that at this point. Work on BG3 has been winding down for a while, I'm not even sure if there will be any more patches (Sven expressed that the team were happy to be moving onto their next project)


Honestly, when in doubt... Any mod files that replace something in the original install... Just move the originals somewhere else. That way if anything borks, you can just put them back and you've got your original game files back.

Part of the issue with the lower level spells could be the speed with which players level up. You just don’t have a lot of opportunities to use them.