Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Gayming awards 2024

Congratulations Larian.
https://www.youtube.com/live/TFm1zoP2FnQ?si=QggSjIbNGhc7ezNN

Good job an awesome achievement.
I hope Swen will put those awards somewhere public.

They picked Dame Aylin? OK, she did have a cool cutscene. I would have taken a closer look at Lakrissa, who was a much warmer and more fun character. I liked Lakrissa from the first dialog where we made a bet. Aylin does have an important thematic component, but I think it derives more from her hundred years of imprisonment and repeated ... uh, what's a good word here ... "violation" by her captors, rather than from her relations with anyone else. I kind of felt like Larian backed off a bit on Aylin's recovery story. It would have been interesting to see her work through the Stockholm Syndrome effect, for example. So anyway, yes Larian deserves accolades, but my choice in this category goes to Lakrissa.

They have all my support (and I'm very sad to see the amount of negative comments they've gotten) but I have to say I do find Shadowheart as a pick to be strange. Her story doesn't highlight any sort of LGBT narrative or identity at all. She just has one vaguely flirtatious line about Karlach. Almost reminds me of when Viconia flirted with Hexxat, but she's straight. I think SH's very easily considered playersexual. At best you could read certain lines her dad has as a metaphor for deadnames and parents disowning children over their transness, I suppose.

Dame Aylin is a better more coherent nomination for sure since her romance with Isobel is important to her narrative. I guess they could've included Nocturne but she's a very minor character and in my opinion, when it comes to her trans identity, super clunkily written. Two of Astarion's most touching scenes acknowledge that he's been with men in a way you can't ignore (When he was in the tomb for a year because of letting a guy escape and the Sebastian scene), too, so I'm surprised not to see him there.
I think maybe Karlach could be a candidate as well, Samantha Beart mentions how she played all the romance scenes with a female Tav in mind, and Karlach's act 3 romance scene seems to be a scene if I recall correctly? But honestly I think her character also falls into a lot of traps playersexual characters do.
Halsin is undoubtedly into everyone, as he specifies as much, so not playersexual. But I also wouldn't say he's exactly noteworthy for that or anything so I don't think he'd be a good nomination.

Not that I care about these awards, but Shadowheart of all characters winning an award for LGBTQ+ representation when there are much more wholesome and heartwarming couples in BG3 clearly shows a severe lack of objective integrity in order to politically ride the popularity of her actress, rather than truly picking a representative character.

Lakrissa and Alfira, Dame Aylin and Isobel, even Beldron and Lunkbug are much more captivating couples written with class.

Shadowheart who is a player-sexual kink-machine at best that doesn't have any relationships and merely hints about getting it on with Karlach and "howling under the moonlight" with Halsin; manages to win the award over Dame Aylin, Selune's own celestial daughter sent as an emissary that fell in love with a mortal woman worshipping the celestial mother and then imprisoned by her very lover's father for a hundred years to be used as a life-battery for him and his armies as they kept ritually killing her over a century as part of their initiation. Yet despite the sickening cruelty inflicted upon her that had mentally and physically scarred her, her tremendous love and devotion towards Isobel never waivered as both outcomes regarding Isobel's fate bring out an amazing performance by Hellen Keeley.

Aylin 100% should have gotten the award here, especially since it's an award for the character and the core of Aylin's character is literally her love for Isobel.

They were missing Isobel who chose a goddesses daughter. Yes she was shown in the cut-scene, but you don’t see her devotion to Dame Aylin.

In my second playthrough I killed her on command of the god of murder. In contrast with the first playthrough where she’s alive, it’s gut-wrenching how much light and joy is wiped out by that murder.

But Shadowheart is the more openly sex-positive one, and the scenes *they show* are more intense, so I understand the decision.

And in most third-party "best of BG3" videos, Shadowheart is with a female Tav.

I agree this doesn’t make sense

Shadowheart who only has fantasies about having sex with Halsin
Who identifies as a Man and is a man won the gayest Character award yet dan Alyn who tells us to leave so she can make love to her girlfriend didn’t ?

Karlach who VA said she tried to make Karlach as gay as she could didn’t win ?

I think they just gave Shadowheart the award because her VA is gay.

This is type of bs is why I don’t take award seriously

It's not that important.

https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx5jd_nbDqdQtGlZht3IIZEwJCeGr3S7ew?si=MIFNnT_qQCQYJuDG

That doesn't surprise me, SH is preferred by lesbians and bi women.

There is a B in LGBTQ, so a character doesn't have to be a goldstar lesbian to qualify for the award.

Not that LGBTQ "as a group" actually means a thing, given that in reality (as "outside of the fabled world predicated on the internet") almost each letter of the acronym summarizes a sub-group that barely wants to have anything to do with the other ones.

MAybe this will make it clear to some western gaming companies that you don't have to uglify female characters or turn them into half-men to make players of all walks in life like them and feel "inclusive".

For sure, but I don't think that's what people are necessarily discussing here, or at least I know I wasn't.
I know the discussion around BG3's playersexuality (vs. bi/pansexuality) is its own can of worms, but even ignoring that I think Shadowheart isn't exactly showcasing any sort of representation, past the playersexual mechanic. There is no discussion or insight or mention of her bisexuality. I do see how her identity (and having to deal with repressing it) is a vital part of her storyline, but I don't see much of a metaphor for anything there besides mayyyyybe a trans narrative if I'm real charitable.

I think this video by verilybitchie sums up my thoughts on the entire pansexual vs playersexual debacle quite well, and I do wonder how she'd discuss BG3's romance system.


IMO, Halsin is the only one (of the companions) who is without a shadow of a doubt pansexual and not mechanically pansexual and states as much. I'd say Astarion as well but there's already enough discourse about how his (unavoidable) banter flirting with both sexes "doesn't count because he was still acting as if he was under Cazador's influence" (which I think is a bit silly, but eh, okay, let's say you can't say that he's pansexual without a shadow of a doubt). What I will say is that in Astarion's case there is a same-sex relationship that's unavoidably discussed if you do his quest, so there's that.

I watched the awards now. Theoretically, they could have nominated all companions, if they go for the bi route. Astarion would have the demi sexuality on top (I don't count his canonical samesex relationships, since he didn't had agenda over his own body in that time) and Halsin the poly stuff (though I don't see him as a well done representation of that).
I don't really have a problem with Shadowheart, though I would have prefered Dame Aylin in this case. The game is generally very queer friendly (my view as a lesbian) and deserves an award.
Shadowheart might have been picked, because she is the most romanced character according to Larians numbers.

As our updated code of conduct, which everyone should have just signed up to, says: “It's everyone's responsibility to keep this a safe and positive community. This space is for everyone regardless of gender, gender identity/expression, sexuality, religion, race, ethnicity, or nationality.”

Unnecessarily pronouncing on LGBTQ+ issues outside the context of discussing the game or opining on the lack of femininity of women who don’t meet your criteria of attractiveness or appropriate female behaviour don’t align with that code, but I’ve seen both earlier in this thread. No more please!

Let’s all be respectful, constructive and considerate of the fact these are open, public forums with a diverse membership.

Yeah, her sexuality is not that deep or developed outside of the playersexuality. But she mentions Halsin being nice to look at, has a liking for Karlach and a romantic past with Nocturne, so the entire spectrum of genders are canonically represented, though very briefly. But like you say, her sexuality is not front and center, but I think that can also be part of a good character. One that has a lot else to bring to the table and is not defined solely by the romantic and sexual aspects. In a way I like that better as representation, Shadowheart is just casually pan and open minded, she doesn't shout it out like some of the other more sexualized characters.

@papercut_ninja For me, I honestly think it's just not very developed at all. I think it's cool if characters don't have their sexuality or identity be front and center, and don't think it's needed for it to be constantly remarked, but it does frustrate me a bit that a "lazier" playersexual mechanic is rewarded by awards when it could've been more meaningful and easily included to make her canonically pan. Like they did with Astarion except for all the online discourse about whether it "counts" because of his circumstances.
I think her being in a romantic relationship with Nocturne is partly HC territory (people have theorised pre-transition Nocturne was her Dream Visitor in EA, though, but it's just a theory... a game theory) and I also don't think that line about Karlach is enough to confirm she's bisexual, unfortunately. Would've been nice if they've pushed the tension with Shadowheart and Lae'zel a bit more, I suppose, since the devs joke about it a lot now.

I don't say this with ill intent and I hope that's clear, I'm bisexual myself and I like seeing bisexual characters on screen. Unfortunately I don't know if that's what I'd consider Shadowheart, although it's easy for me to HC her as such.

I don't sense any ill intent at all, and I see the point and agree that bisexuality can get lost in the mix when you have playersexual mechanics.

It's a matter where interpretations of the character can differ greatly. Her interest in Karlach and past relationship with Nocturne is solidified through twittercanon more than in-game canon, so it depends on what emphasis you put on that.

But as Larian's developers also have said so eloquently "The characters in Baldur's Gate belong to everyone now." And that means that headcanons and fancanons are valid as well, if the lesbian and bisexual players have taken Shadowheart to their heart, then she belongs to them just as much. And Larian's writers, her VA and the entire team around developing her as a character made her believable and enjoyable to those players.

Of course they give the gay award to a character who spent the entire game fantasizing about having sex with a muscular man LOL
I think the same as most of the people who comment, Isabel and Lady Aylin deserved to win.

Like most awards involving BG3 this is a joke. Here because lazy playersexuality to save money on dialogue and companions is confused for actual lgbtq representation, especially when the confirmed lgbtq characters get ignored (who are also in my opinion not handled very well and imo their dialogue is much too cringe but I can't think of a better representation from the last year. Does RT have a good lgbtq character?).


That a lazy cop-out and the equivalent of Larian throwing up the hands in the air and saying "Yes, fine, whatever you want, I don't care". Its understandable why Larian is doing it, thirst is the thing that made BG3 a success, so they want to keep it going, but its not something that should be honored with an award.

I'm in more of a middle ground. I don't think playersexuality is inherently a bad thing and think it's a better system for these games than set sexuality romances unless that sexuality is important to their story (Think Dorian Pavus), but I also don't think playersexuality counts as representation, although I'm sure for a lot of LGBT people it's nice to be able to romance the companion they like when playing as the same sex. I think I've gotten used to it so I'm neutral about it.

I remember this article I read years ago about BG3 EA, and find I agree with it in that they could've done more to turn these from playersexuality to actual all coincidently pan characters.
https://gaymingmag.com/2021/03/baldurs-gate-3-really-should-just-make-everyone-bisexual/

I will also say I disagree for the most part about the LGBT characters in BG3 being cringe. I thought Aylin and Isobel were adorable. Lakrissa and Alfira have some sort of thing implied and I also think it's handled well even though I quite dislike Alfira. Those gnomes in Grymforge are there and can't really care either way.
The exception is Nocturne, I do think she's written with the subtlety of an elephant in a tea shop. Here's where I think her identity shouldn't be the sole feature of her character. She's The Trans Character Who Is Trans and Transitioned Because She Is Trans, and I find that really clunky. I suppose respectful trans characters aren't common in videogames so you've gotta start somewhere real basic, but damn, is it just the stereotypical stuff all concentrated into a single character. I actually think whatever metaphor you can read into Shadowheart's "deadname" is miles ahead of Nocturne's representation.

Thats how I think they want to do it in Veilguard? or however its called now. Everyone is officially bi.
If they really do it remains to be seen. Its after all from EA and design by marketing.

I do not find "lgbtq" characters in BG3 cringe in general, but Aylin and Isobel specifically. Mainly because you have this big and important moment of Shadowheart breaking with Shar and instead of a followup you get a "Wait! I first need to have lesbian sex with my lesbian girlfriend because we are lesbians!!!!" moment which to me feels very forced and unnatural as the way its presented looked to me that Larian absolutely wanted to make sure that everyone knows that they are a lesbian couple and thus resorted to a very over the top dialogue.

Anevia and Irabeth (WotR) were handled much better imo and should have gotten the award instead, although I am sure some people will criticise the way Anevia realized she was transgender.

To be honest, I'm fine with player sexuality, imo it is handled well in BG3. As a lesbian myself, games in the past more often than not catered to a hetero and mainly male audience - look at BG2: 3 romances for males - very different character wise- , 1 very problematic and toxic male character to romance for females.
I'm not playing those games for romance, but when they are in, then give me a nice girl to romance and not stupid and toxic Anomen.

As for representation - since someone said, they were not good representations: Dame Aylin and Isobel are really well done and not cringe, same with Alfira and Lakrissa, the other canonical lesbian couple imo. As a lesbian, I like them and I think, most people agree, judging by the overwhelming positive posts everywhere.

I would say, Halsin is not very well done for the poly representation imo, which probably is because he was a late addition. But a lot of people seem to like him and I don't care much about that character anyway, so I just ignore him mostly nowadays.

I mean, they haven't seen each other for a hundred years, give them their moment. I was pretty ok with that scene in that context. It would have been cringe in most other contexts for sure.

Well, that game was released a couple years ago. I'm not sure if they won if the awards existed back then (probably not since WOTR isn't as well known).
EDIT: I saw you mention Anevia's trans identity in an edit and I do at least think it's cool it's handled with magic in this universe, because how could it not? I mean, I think both approaches are cool (transitioning like in our world or transitioning perfectly with magic) but a magic transition I think serves as a power fantasy of sorts, the only drawback is that it's going to be a bit lacking in representing the struggles of being trans after transitioning. Either way: I think it's cool.

I think Veilguard is just doing DA2 playersexuality again? We'll have to see. I think Lucanis' writer said she wrote him to be a "bisexual mess" or something like that.


I agree with fylimar that I think Aylin and Isobel aren't acting in a particularly outrageous way IMO. What matters to me is that they don't draw a lot of attention to it being a "same sex relationship", though I suppose there's a bit of a metaphor in their forbidden love and Ketheric's disapproval because Aylin's the daughter of Selune.



I've seen divided opinions on him from the poly community. I'm not poly myself and particularly dislike him so can't comment on it without being biased. I will say it was refreshing that he makes clear he's bisexual in a single sentence. You ask him about his past experiences or something and he clearly mentions both a woman and some "pirate guy who screamed his name" or some such. That's what that article I shared a post ago is asking for, I think.

The best LGBTQ character award is chosen by public vote. So the success of Baldur's Gate and popularity of Shadowheart as a romance option probably played a big part. She probably wouldn't have gotten the award if she was a lesser known character from an indie studio. There is an Authentic Representation category, awarded by a panel, which focuses more on the authentic LGBTQ experience.

In a setting like Forgotten Realms it's also more challenging to write a character arc that represents the LGBTQ experience of our own world, since homophobia, biphobia and transphobia is not institutional and structural in the way it is in our world. But the personal struggles of characters such as Shadowheart, Astarion, Lae'zel and Wyll does serve as an allegory of the journey of discovering yourself as something different than what your surroundings expected and breaking free from those expectations.

I think they did far more than simply insert playersexuality into the characters. With the stories, the notes, the voice acting, they became fully realised in an entirely different way than Housecarl Lydia.

Ah, my bad then. I still think she shouldn't have been nominated (maybe that was also a public vote?) but if she won by public vote that makes sense. She is a very popular character.

hard disagree.
I mean, I'm not the biggest fan of "playersexuality" in general and I definitely prefer when the members of the cast have a set orientation, but that's beating a dead horse at this point.

I definitely think BG3 handled it extremely poorly, though.
It's a game where every single conversation with every main member of the main cast is almost assumed to be flirtatious by default and you have to tiptoe your way around not ending in the sack with each one of them.
Which admittedly could be exactly what a part of the user base wants, but that's definitely not me.

I was incredibly annoyed about the way I had put active effort in avoiding picking lines with Halsin, Karlach or situationally Wyll and Astarion. Wait, Gale too... You know what? it was poretty much every freaaking one of them.
It's also not made better by the fact that often "gentle rejection" was barely an option and the range was something dangeroudly close to going from "Let's cuddle right now" to "Fuck off, you nauseating freak".

I fully agree, that you can trigger romances too easily. I haven't found out, how to not trigger Wylls dance scene yet and I don't talk to Halsin about anything but Thaniel and the Shadowcurse nowadays. At least, Lae'zel and Karlach handle it gracefully, if you say no.
But when you do romance them, the ones I did, were good. I think, they should go over the dialogues again and make triggering a romance by accident harder.
And yes, gentle rejection should be there. They did better with Gale, who has a really good friendship part now, but Wyll will always be miffled, when you try to let him down easily in the dance scene.The others, I'm mostly ok with, but Halsin is a nightmare, he just won't stop. Luckily, there is a daggerloving lady in act 3, who needs some abduction victim ...

I don't want to entirely derail this thread so I'll keep things short, but I already said months ago what I think the solution to the problem should be (realistically speaking in their future games rather than in updates for this one):

The default path toward any other character should be a relationship built on friendship, with the player being the one that can eventually activate the "flags" leading to flirtatious behavior and (over time) straight up romance.

Right now? The feeling is that most of your traveling companions are people that you are either supposed to ignore entirely or to fuck enthusiastically.

That would be my preferrence too tbh.

Nomination was also a public vote, then the panel made a shortlist and the public voted from the candidates in the shortlist.

I am assuming the panel made some consideration on the amount of nominations from the public vote as well when selecting their shortlist. Surely Astarion was also among the nominations, but if I was on the panel I would choose Shadowheart over Astarion, because Astarion has already gotten so much attention and is also a more stereotypical sexualized LGBTQ character.

Oh, that makes sense then. Like, I still don't think it's a good nomination for what the award is. But I understand if that's how they decided it. She also placed #9 in the "Most Iconic Videogame Characters of All Time" thing even though that's a crazy placement for a character from such a recent game.

I will agree that Shadowheart's actress definitely deserves her roses at awards too because she's great. That one moment with DJ SH where she goes "I still remember..." is extremely good. I'm glad she's gotten an award recognising that work, at least.

Buuuut... if they also had Astarion, that was undoubtedly a better pick (other than you know, Aylin) for a nomination. Even if you say he's playersexual in his inclination towards women (which I disagree with) he's still undoubtedly LGBT in the game (unlike SH, imo), in a way that doesn't draw attention to that fact in the less subtle ways someone might imagine. He just happened to have seduced two men, and that's that (plus whatever other flirty comments he makes throughout the game). And the two main scenes where that's remarked are pretty good. I don't think him being sexualized by the fanbase should be a factor, tbh. How he feels about being sexualized is fleshed out p well throughout the game. But it is known I am an Astarion shill, and I don't want to derail this thread to promote him as always, so I'll move on from that opinion on here :P

EDIT: @Tuco @fylimar I believe the intent for why the characters initiate romances is that they wanted to make them feel like they had an agency. I do get what they mean by that, I remember the DA games and it felt artificial that that's how it worked (except for Anders, for some reason...). But I also guess everyone has their preferences but I honestly didn't have issues other than with Gale (before they fixed him) and Halsin.

Well it's nice that an Astarion shill and Shadowheart fan can have a productive and respectful discussion without it turning ugly.

I think Astarion is awesomely portrayed and well written, but he has hogged the spotlight a lot so it's nice for someone else to be acknowledged (and I feel Lae'zel and Karlach and Gale are equally deserving of attention, and Wyll deserves a more developed story so he could be appreciated on equal terms with the others.)

You know I honestly celebrate all this inclusion, it's been a long time coming and I am happy to see Larian getting awards for going above and beyond in regards to this sort of thing.

Having said that I still think dating in the workplace is a disaster waiting to happen. No matter how thirsty Halsin, Astarion, Lae'zel or Gale got I really just wanted to have a way to tell them that I wasn't interested and if they kept it up a *Report to HR* option.

But I guess that's not very adventurey.

Well, alien astral lizardfolk are not that common in the workplace, but men who mistake polite conversation for flirting unfortunately are, so I can see why they give people the ick. Halsin especially has terrible tact and timing, but I can step back and see their approaches as romance mechanics more than romance storywriting. Ignore it as a result of the mechanics of the game rather than realism, just as having supper consist of fifteen bottles of wine is not a realistic portrayal of a meal.

This is pretty much the reason for why I wouldn't vote for Bg3, above any other argument.

I don't even arrive at the finer points like:
- "is character X or Y more appropriate", and
- "are we voting for a character that is embraced by the LGBT parts of the community, or a coded character beneath the player sexuality?" or
- "is this award best reserved for actual couples and therefore their romance, as opposed to a well liked companion character that happens to be LGBT?"

I'm eons away from any actual considerable question such as: "what will the merging rise of playersexuality do to games as a whole?", because even for a game that has playersexuality and LGBT characters, I would only ever consider nominating Bg3 for the non-companion category. Isobel and Dame Aylin would deserve that much.

However, any award that polls the audience creates a popularity contest and not a best character for the role contest. That can be appropriate, but also inappropriate. In this case, I would consider it a bullshit award. Some people might consider this extreme, but I have seen time and time again how such polls work and how they end. It's virtually impossible to get a result that's not just the most popular character. If this is how you structure your award, I can't take it seriously or assume it credible. There's no point being outraged about something so meaningless.

I disagree.

Maybe tthat’s a reason why queerphobes don’t pick on them?

If you pick on them, you’ll be bombarded with so many objectively great moments of queer love, respect, and caring, that it would be a battle queerphobes would be sure to lose — even without a lot of effort on the other side. Because Larian created such a great pair in them.

You will see how much they succeeded if you rescue Isobel in your first playthrough and then play dark urge as second — and succumb to killing Isobel. There is a stark difference between scenes with Isobel and Dame Aylin and scenes with only Dame Aylin. Killing Isobel when you know the plot with her really drives home how evil it is to try to destroy queer love.

Another reason why the award did not pick Isobel and Dame Aylin might be that they are not player-romancable. That would support the idea that a character you romance leaves a much stronger impression than one you only observe.

I genuinely don't care. That's not the point.
The point is that if I play a party-based fantasy game I want to enjoy an adventure where "romance" is an EVENTUAL, optional feature that takes the back seat, and not the front and center of every interaction I have with my fictional companions.

I would love an alternate version of BG3 where I could have conversations with my companions that aren't necessarily centered into becoming each other's anal intruder.

Yeah, Karlach can keep her spiky tail to herself. Sheesh, when I take a step back and look at the romance options, all I see now are a bunch of barbed tails, fangs, bat wings, bloody eyes, tentacles, scaly skin, pointy horns, creepy eye makeup, bear claws, lizard tongues, and a terrible swimmer. No esta bien.

"I am right here"

Hi folks, let’s stay on topic and keep this thread for chat about the Gayming awards.

If anyone wants to talk about romance/sex in BG3 (again) then let’s resurrect one of the threads about that or start a new one, rather than derail this.

I apologise I didn’t mean to offend anyone or invalidate anyone in the LGBTQIA+ community.


It’s because of Shadowhearts banter with Halsin and lack of real interest in the player combined with the lustful looks and I’ve dreamed about having sex with Halsin multiple times.

comes across to me that she was intend to be straight but they made all the companions player sexual.

The only character I know for certain that was written to have sexual identity and is a camp follower / final battle playable companion is Dame.

I’m not part of the LGBTQIA+ community so I really shouldn’t say anything about the awards.

P.S

My limited understanding of gayming awards combined with me not knowing what the character need to meet to get the award is why I’m so confused as to why Shadowheart was awarded the gayest character and the fact I never heard of Gayming awards until TT.

I'm bi, and I personally wasn't offended by any comments seen here, so don't sweat it
That being said, Shadowheart wanting to sleep with Halsin doesn't necessarily make her straight. I've already discussed that I find her to be playersexual rather than bisexual, but I don't think Halsin is proof she couldn't be bisexual.

I guess we could also argue Raphael could've beeen nominated for the award, since he's a prominent character that sleeps with the same sex regardless of player's actions, that being a clone of himself :P Would've been a very fun if unlikely nomination.

As has been already established the romanceable companions are all playersexual, this has also been confirmed by Larian that it was their decision and intention from early in the development. So none of the romanceable companions are written as straight, gay or lesbian, they are all pansexual so that it fits the playersexual mechanics (good or bad, lazy, less interesting, better or worse for inclusion are all valid opinions on this mechanic and a topic for another discussion, it is what it is).

A character that is pansexual is obviously also eligible for this award since they fall within the LGBTQ umbrella. Since it's awarded by popular vote, a character that the player can have a developed and intimate story with themselves is going to have a huge advantage. I think any of the romancable companions in Baldur's Gate 3 would have beaten any of the NPC's in a popular vote, the Baldur's Gate fanbase is a community that has latched on to the companions very strongly. Opinions on Whether you think this is a bad or good approach to selecting the winner will be divided and can be argued forever and after 25 years the fanbase of for example the Eurovision Song Contest are still strongly divided on this issue.

I personally think the writers, actors and directors went beyond simply writing a romance and then slapping a playersexual mechanic on it. I think they put a lot of effort into ensuring that the dialogue, scenes and characterisation could be enjoyed from many different player perspectives. I think a lot of players, myself included, subconciously make our own headcanons about the companion's sexualities, but I am not surprised when I learn that a companion that I romanced as a straight Tav, someone else romanced and enjoyed as a gay Tav.

Regarding the scene where Shadowheart expresses interest in Halsin there seems to be a willfully bad faith interpretation of this scene that it's all about her sexual attraction to Halsin. Completely disregarding that for this to even trigger, Shadowheart and the player have first, through the active choice of the player, confirmed that they are interested in getting intimate with two drow twins, a male and a female. And in that scene Shadowheart clearly expresses enjoing the intimacy and attention of both the male and female drow, as well as wanting the player to join them. If anything this confirms that Shadowheart is queer/pan and not straight. No matter what you think of this scene (also a topic for another discussion) there is no way to have this interaction without having Shadowheart clearly express interest in and enjoyment with at least one female character as well.

That makes sense that shadowheart would win given she is “god favourite princess” and she is one of the most popular characters.

I don’t really play player sexual games not that I purposely avoid them.

so it’s an adjustment period to see all characters as part of the alphabet community.

Regarding the Halsin part that is a completely different discussion as that would have nothing to do with the awards.

That would have been really funny if Raphael was a candidate.

In all my play thrus when I’ve had shadowheart in my party she never talked about Karlach carrying her to safety.

The only time she really showed any interest that wasn’t 100% player input was with Halsin.

Larian also won an award for best community support despite keeping the community in the dark and informing Mac players on the day of the supposed release that the Mac version will be delayed for a undefined time with a twitter post made on a employees personal account.

Which is why all those popular vote awards mean nothing.
People see Shadowheart, people vote for Shadowheart.

The Game Awards where they won best community support are not selected by popular vote though (except for the Player's Choice Award), so not the best example.

I happen to be just at that spot in my current playthrough. So here you are, it occurs when you meet Karlach for the first time, but the game will pick only one companion for a statement of "approval". Lae'zel might be chosen instead of Shadowheart, and she'll say something about a firey warrior.

Before you click below, my current PT has an NSFW mod to make everyone look more like a Conan/Frank Frazetta persona, and since I had to restart from a quicksave in a cutscene I couldn' t change Shaddy back to her "normal" attire. (But since we're in an LGBTQ+ related thread I imagine everyone is mature enough.)

[unacceptable image removed by moderator]

The fact that this is a thread discussing the Gayming awards is absolutely no reason for sharing unnecessarily sexualised images, even in spoiler tags.

Let’s not see that again.

Shadowheart is the one that that says “there’s a thought I don’t mind sharing if you don’t”

That’s is when Halsin invites himself to the party and shadowheart goes full daddy Halsin mode.

They exchange a lustful look then try and pressure the player into a 5 some with the Halsin and Shadowheart disapprove if you reject him for a third time.

Also the fact the banter plays out even if you don’t talk to halsin until act3 or out right reject Halsin is the reason why I interpreted that as her being written to be straight but was later changed to be player sexual.

all banter between Halsin and Shadowheart is flirty regardless of the path you choose with shadowheart. DJ shadowheart banter is obviously thirsty for Halsin.


That is why I didn’t understand how she could be the winner of the gayest character as she doesn’t really show any interest in any female characters outside a female PC character but she shows a lot of interest in a Male character and admits she’s be fantasising about having sex with him.

I am not out to defend this scene or the writing of Halsin as I am not a fan of either of these inclusions in the game, but you are factually wrong. There is a prompt that you need to confirm after she says she doesn't mind sharing:


(Unless you have already learned about their proposal earlier at which point you can jump straight to: "I would like to hire both of you, and I hope my partner will join us as well", which of course entirely removes Shadowheart's agency in being the one to bring it up.)

There is nothing involving Halsin unless you click the dialogue option "Great, let's do it."

There is no need to misrepresent the actual events and interaction to make it seem even worse, as has been proven with the lengthy threads about this topic, people are upset about it enough as it is.

And to return to the topic of this thread regarding characters that are LGBTQ again, there is a female drow right there that Shadowheart shows interest in first (together with her male brother), hence she is at the very least queer.

Oh man... that you have to come here with these partially false claims and exaggerations...

First, please no personal attacks, and second it does feel as though we’re wandering somewhat off topic in this thread, as well as risking treading on sensitive topics. Please keep things both relevant and considerate.

And while I’m here, I’ll just mention that I was happy to see Dame Aylin acknowledged in these awards. I think Shadowheart justly gets appreciation, and she obviously resonated with the voters for this award, but Aylin is a character who has stuck with me out of proportion to the size of the role. She has the bombastic demeanour and slightly cringeworthy righteousness that is played for laughs in the tradition of the first BG games (particularly Ajantis in the first game), and her embarrassing honesty and TMI about her relationship with Isobel feels completely in character and always gets a chuckle from me. But I think Helen Keeley does a fantastic job at injecting a note of fragility into Aylin’s front of confidence, and for me the character also managed to capture the danger of someone who is sure they’re right, or is not able to accept any weakness from themself, without it feeling like I was being hit in the face with it. As a portrait of a paladin character that to me feels faithful to the D&D stereotype while still hinting at the complex individual under the surface, Aylin would have got my vote.

The vote is not for the "gayest" character. It's actually not about the character at all. As I've criticized prior to this, that type of vote ALWAYS favours the most popular character in a given community, usually resulting in the most objectively deserving choices being passed right over.

However, even if someone does not agree with that criticism, it remains a vote for the most cherished character by the LGBT community around the game. It is not a vote for the "gayest" character. Whether SH is gay, straight, bisexual or playersexual, it doesn't matter. Being theoretically playersexual is enough to qualify for voting, even if you see her as some sort of specific sexuality personally. Though, let me tell you, even if she wasn't playersexual, she'd likely have been a voting option if there's enough fan content in demand. This is a sort of community reward, not an intellectually rigorous one.

Headcanons is all people have had for a long time with LGBT characters being a taboo. This gave rise to this sort of treatment: anyone is bisexual in shipping culture until proven otherwise. I'm aware some people do not like this, but it is what it is. Compared to this, her being mechanically playersexual transcends the bare minimum to qualify by leaps and bounds. The people behind this award are not interested whether she "appears" gay, straight or bisexual.

I too wish a more intellectually focused award existed alongside this, but the existence of a fandom award in itself is not necessarily bad. You have to accept it for what it is: SH is the most popular character in fandom, as voted by people of whom many are LGBT. She's neither the best "portrayal" nor necessarily the best written. She's just meant the most to the highest amount of people in the community.

It's funny, that you mentioned Ajantis, since I always thought, that Aylin and Ajantis have a lot in common, especially being a bit over the top, but pretty likeable. And yes, the voice actor is really great.

Very much agree with this. It is an award for a character that has been embraced by the LGBTQ community.

I've seen a compilation of data someone put together with fanfiction shippings and it shows an overwhelming popularity for Shadowheart as lesbian or bi. Shadowheart and Lae'zel is the most popular by far with more than twice as many shippings as Shadowheart and Karlach that comes in at second, with Shadowheart and Female Tav being the third most popular. Even though Astarion is the golden boy of fanfiction with exponentially more fanfiction than any other character and ranks as the number one shipping with almost every other character, Astarion only comes in as the fourth most popular shipping with Shadowheart.

So as far as the LGBTQ community goes, they clearly view her as one of theirs.

That's a very true point. I think in terms of her being romanced by players in-game, it's probably going to be mostly by straight men since that's going to be the majority target audience for this game (that is not to say that in terms of fanbase bg3 has clearly been very well received and loved by the LGBT community) but in terms of an active fanbase, the lesbians are the majority loving her instead.

I will say that I like Dame Aylin's story and her connection with Isobel is interweaved well with the story, and it serves as the best allegory for the LGBTQ experience, so in terms of representation it has more to say than the origin character's romances. But she is also the fourth female martial character that has that blunt and upfront approach to sex. Following after Lae'zel, Minthara and Karlach who all kind of do the same thing. Now it's fun that the game flips some tropes on its' head with female characters with an aggressive and positive sexual agency, but it's almost becoming a cliché of its' own that female martial characters now all sound like hockey players.

It doesn't bother me in the least, it just didn't feel very surprising or new, but rather something I'd come to expect from such a character.

To be fair, one of them is a Githyanki, one is a (raised) Lolth-sworn drow, one is a Sharran, and one is not human, nor raised with human (ish) social values. It's not out of character for any of them to feel so. It could be an accident that SH is the only one with a not "we'll bang, okay?" outlook. But, if you make the profound mistake of raising approval beyond a limit, you're certainly a piece of meat surrounded by lions in this game lol

I was just explaining why I thought shadowheart was intended to be straight but was changed to player sexual and why I was confused as to why shadowheart won Gayest character but not dame.

A lot of people interpreted the banter between halsin and shadowheart is flirty.

Every play thru and every first encounter I have had with Kalrach with Shadowheart in my party she never talked about karlach carrying her to safety.

For some reason it’s always Astraion or Gale that mention her so I never had her show interest in the same sex other than with the PC character.

I must have a weird copy of the game or my game is just not updating correctly.



I agree that The brothel is easily available so you won’t get the lustful exchanges but that with the banter combined with twins was what made me think developers and writers had the intention to make her straight but later chose to make everyone player sexual.

As I said earlier, this topic risks treading on sensitive issues and we should all be careful and considerate. The award was in no way for the “gayest” character, whatever that might mean, and that seems a really problematic way of expressing it.

Any discussion of whether someone “seems” gay or straight clearly risks blundering into offensive stereotyping, so I would strongly advise against entering into that territory. Whether Larian’s writers intended that Shadowheart could be experienced as straight if romanced by a male PC (or lesbian if romanced by a female) or whether the game has evidence conflicting with that, are perhaps more factual questions but are of questionable relevance to this thread and in any case everyone’s free to ignore elements that conflict with their own headcanon, especially if those elements appear in other folks’ playthroughs and not their own.

I would suggest we’ve had as much digression into the topic of Shadowheart’s sexuality as this thread can bear, so let’s draw a line and stick more closely to the topic.

Who needs public people awards when you get this from the few people inside this industry with a clue about what makes for a decent game?

https://x.com/rafcolantonio/status/1693636661580533952

I apologise I didn’t mean to offend and will be more careful in future.

I had multiple dumb dumb moments and posted shadowheart won gayest character when there is no such award.

All head cannons are valid everyone that played the game their play thrus are cannon in the baldurs gate universe.