Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Please don’t forget about vampire spawn Tav…

I think you are on to something there.

Only thing is, I see it as Astarion creating a new monster in Tav, kind of like when Bhaal is making his spawn. Confirmed (in my mind) with Astarion giving Tav a drop of his blood. It would be the most interesting romance story, imo. Not the alternative: a trapped, unhappy, unchanged spawn with cow teeth.


I get this, and I agree. A game should be fun to play, also for us evil players.

I like this perspective.

This is a good point to make. Astarion says your pleasure will be far greater than the pain. I'd assume that the pain was mainly the initial bite into your neck, and then the narrator says you soon fall into unconsciousness - and as Astarion later says, you go into a state of delirium at some point during this process, which could be a feeling of frenzy or ecstasy.

I feel that Larian did this in such a way where you could see it both ways. From the point of view of having been turned into a spawn, the single drop of Astarion's blood may only serve to grant you protection and give you the same benefits that the Ascendant has. But from the point of view of the vampire bride/groom ritual, this drop of blood was all he needed to perform the ritual on you (as perhaps the Ascendant's blood is so strong and effective enough that just a drop would suffice).

It also felt that way to me, it felt like it held a significance and was ceremonial for him, even the intense way he acts during that night. Astarion also hints at this later on, that you basically underwent some kind of marriage ritual. For example that he says you're his consort now and he talks about a dowry. It seems to me like you underwent some kind of dark wedding.

I prefer the bride theory and there are enough hints given to indicate that this is what he may have done.

It would have been interesting to get something like this when you wake up. The only narrative comment right now is "When you awake again, you will be his forevermore." But physically waking up from that must feel different, to say the least, as you just had your blood drained from your body and undergone a major transformation (and entered a state of delirium at one point).

But yeah, I'd rather not have them add certain 'new' things or ideas to the game at this point that could risk making some people unhappy or create more inconsistencies.

I agree with this +100

I'm really tired of the "Nooo evil means no happy. No evil person is EVER happy they secretly sob in a corner. If you have power you will never be happy. Evil gets punished!!" stories in fiction. It's boring and old.

Getting to be evil and power hungry with your LI with no judgement by the writers is SO MUCH more fun.



Durge is an entire story that spans all three acts. The entire point of the story is based on how the character feels/the internal struggle of being a Bhaal spawn.

Being a vampire spawn is a specific result of a romance path. Its not an entire story arc. I think it's boring to have to be told by Larian how to feel about it. Thats the players job. You *do* get spawn interaction and dialogue. You get the chance to "tell him how Tav feels" after bite night: confused with no memory. There are player interactions that remark on "something different" about vampire Tav. Tav shows their feelings of what they are through dialogue with Astarion and with others in the epilogue.

Acknowledgements do exist in the game. But maybe they're just not telling the specific story you're really wanting (Tav being exactly like Astarion was as a spawn). Given Tav was created by something other than a true vampire, I doubt you're going to see that.

I think the "Astarion is happy" buff fits perfectly with the master/spawn connection. Wouldn't it show how much of what Tav feels/experiences belongs to their creator? When Tav is sated, they feel their masters happiness. That's fun. Their mind and feelings belong to him.

Not trying to disparage you! It just seems like you're wanting a different story to be told than what Larian gave us. Nothing wrong with discussing that by any means!

I know you are replying to someone else, but I just have to butt in because I really disagree with this. Not that you can't see it this way! But I do not buy this explanation personally. It feels like a rushed aspect of putting the romance together, a mistake and not a roleplay option, that breaks the immersion for players not willing to stretch their imagination that far.

I agree with Yharmeru that we should have seen a physical description of the vampire change. Having our character stay the same (not even new fangs!), seemingly feeling like their good old self, feels unfinished. Creative roleplay is best between confined lines and rules, not whatever you want. Like a parent saying to their child just go play whatever over there, instead of sitting down and playing with them. I get the reluctance to add something considering the last disaster we had with the romance, and I really doubt they will add something more. If Larian decides to do so they will have to be careful with the mess of plotholes for vampire rules/lore that is in the game and keeping the players happy.

The main thing for me physically would be the fangs. How are we going to use our Vampire Bite without them.

I agree with Kira Mira that Tav's "Astarion is happy" status is a bug.

But I understand Natasy's idea, if we take for example the vampire lore about Kin Nectar, if vampires drink each other's blood they feel each other. Including the pleasure of blood? Probably.

Astarion's connection\reaction to Tav when thay drinks is an interesting idea.

But I suppose it would be enough to give Astarion a regular reaction. (aside from the drow and halsin scene, not much time is given to it there, after that too, as there just might be dialogue about Tav's feelings about blood)
Words to Tav's first time feeding, to make the moment more vivid, but that's more likely to be done by modders.


100% Agreed

Sorry I was being cheeky with that! Lol I know it's NOT meant to be intentional. I was just being a little silly with how that specific bug could fit in with a more angst-like headcanon, where Tav is a traditional spawn. I don't personally play as Astarion fully owning Tav's mind/feelings either. My point was to tongue and cheek point out how they could still make their HC work!

I agree fangs would be nice!!

Hah! Too bad we can't hear cheek through the computer screen.


Having some kind of remark om Tavs first feeding is a great idea. Kind of like when you I like that suggestion a lot.

I need to start marking things as /silly when I'm just trying to be lighthearted LOL


But I do actually really like this and will incorporate it into my "mental bond" HC 🖤 it's a fun work around for the bug

Interestingly, in The Necromancy of Thay, Astarion finds a description of the Ascension ritual, the book is ancient, so it's odd that it contains a description of a ritual that has never been performed by anyone (as Raphael says), directly by anyone, not Szass Tam himself, his disciples, or any other Thay vampire mages. Szass Tam has vampire generals, commanders of Cyric's Legion and Legion of Bone, there is no need to hide vampirism in Thay, it is considered a variant of immortality. Thay's vampiric aristocracy is part of the Zulkir of Necromancy along with other necromancers, lichs, etc. Accordingly, someone of the Thay would probably have performed this ritual earlier. In my opinion, this is somewhat illogical. By the way, there is a book in DnD - The Tome of Blasphemous Magic, also by Szas Tam, Lord of Thei. Perhaps it is the progenitor for the book "The Necromancy of Thay" that we see in the game, it's very similar.

Personally, I envision Astarion's vampirism this way: initially, the spawn has all the traits of a classic vampire spawn - dulled senses, hunger, etc. Tadpole "revives" Astarion, giving him the ability to walk in the sunlight, brings back his senses, he effectively becomes alive again, the only thing he has left from his previous state is vampiric hunger. Astarion can eat normal food, not just drink blood, he can taste and smell, he himself no longer has an undead smell like normal vampires. Except that he remains cold to the touch ("I will miss the warmth of your body," he says to Tav, implying that he used to enjoy Tav's warmth before). Nor is there any "monstrosity" in Astarion's behavior and character - he's alive, emotional, feeling and in no way resembles those ill-fated 5th edition vampires. Stephen Rooney also mentioned in one of his interviews that he didn't want to show a classic vampire because no one would be interested. This is absolutely true and perfect for the character. After Ascension, Astarion no longer feels vampire hunger, all his senses have sharpened, he has gained new abilities that will develop over time. His personality doesn't change in any way, an Ascended vampire is just like a human with super powers and the ability to drink blood. It's a bit unclear how much blood he needs to drink, how often, etc. It's clear that he feels pleasure from it, and the blood makes him stronger, but he doesn't experience the torment of hunger that drives other vampires to seek sacrifice at all costs, he can eat regular food. Does Astarion now drink blood at will? How long must it be after he has drunk someone else's blood before he needs more, how will he feel when doing so, if he no longer feels hunger - these questions, unfortunately, are not answered by the game. Well, in the game, Astarion habitually bites every time after resting, gets his happy buff, maybe once a day he needs blood to feel perfect, but that's a matter of headcanons only.

I fully support the fact that Tav is Astarion's bride, there is plenty of evidence for that in the game, while the ordinary spawn option, on the other hand, has obvious logical contradictions, given the way Tav's conversion ritual goes. Here's a great video where everything is explained very well with a factual approach to the issue (I know a lot of people have seen it, but in case someone hasn't yet and they're curious):



1. Agreed. It's very funny when Astarion in no way resembled a spawn from 5th edition, and then, suddenly, it's a living Ascended vampire (the ritual heightens feelings and sharpens them, it's said in the game, not destroys or dulls them) that has to become a regular 5th edition vampire lord with a "monster" in his brain. In that case, it would make a lot more sense for Astarion-Spawn, after the tadpole and all its effects are gone, to become this very 5th edition spawn, if that.

2. I hope so. I hope we've angered enough already, we can already play with pleasure, calmly, without nerves.


+1000. Considering how punishing it is to choose the "good" side in BG3 (for those who love Astarion), it would be extremely unfair to once again try to torture players who follow the only happy path, which in this game is the path of evil. I've honestly had enough of third-party attempts to make my Tav the heroine of a fanfic that I would never even want to read, except at gunpoint, let alone play it, forgetting about such a word as roleplay in an RPG game. But fortunately, they listened to us, the necessary fixes were promised in patch 7, which gives us hope that there will be no more ruined game. The modders fixed the romance, the modders will probably make some interesting additions to Astarion and Tav's vampire story in the future as well. At least that will be something to evaluate, and choose whether or not to install, how well it fits the story, etc.

it should be possible for your player character to become an acended vampire.. either taking Astations place, by killing him or something or, somehow accend with him

To me it seems like Tav will be the only one with a cold body, since they will be a spawn and not a lord like Astarion. His heart is beating and he's alive so it would make sense he'd be exactly like a regular person, but with superpowers. He'd then experience Tav's body in a completely different way. After the conversion, Tav doesn't seem to notice any difference though and he also tells them they won't really change all that much. He's also confident he can share his powers with Tav, so they might actually be able to benefit from all the living vampire perks.


As for the OP, I agree the happy buff should be described differently, the game should explain better what's going on with Tav and the reactivity to Tav's new condition is sorely missing. They could at least add fangs and bite marks to the magic mirror so we can customise our charas to look more vampiric.