Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Make changed/positive facial expressions for Ascendant Astarion kisses optional

After seeing the announcement that Tav's faces when kissing ascended Astarion will change with the next patch, I would like to make the suggestion to make this change optional for players. This way, it would remain possible for players who found the old facial expressions fitting for their character to uphold the envisioned narrative of their story. Personally, I think both narratives are equally possible and it would be nice to have the chance to choose how my different characters react to the kisses. Thank you!

Edit to add: I think it would be a good idea to add a small line of narrator dialogue with a choice attached for this purpose, or use one of the already existing options that express Tav's discomfort (such as the attempted breakup)

Edit 2: I would like to clarify, I do not want the new expressions Larian announced to be changed or not added. All I'm asking for is the possibility to keep the ones that are already in the game, too, because that was the story I experienced with my character. It's really not my intention to upset anyone, or for the fearful expressions to be forced onto other people's player characters again. I understand the faces that came with patch 6 messed up the roleplaying aspect for a lot of people, and I feel that the same thing would happen with my Tav if the coming change is mandatory for everyone. I am only asking for the option to play my character the way I want to, not for others to share my narrative or play the same way.

I think it's technically very difficult or nearly impossible.

Personally I'm against such a change, AA fans haven't even seen the final facial expressions of patch 7 yet and you're already asking to change something there.

If you insist on such a suggestion, I would like to ask to change all the "facial expressions of all companions in kissing".


For example, Minthara, my character is happy with her, should I ask for another kiss line with different facial expressions? Rhetorical question

Don't do, leave the mood and kiss idea that was shown at the game's release, in August 2023.

Honestly, I realize that part of the community wants to see the Ascended Astarion as the abuse monster of Cazador 2, over all the characters. So that the "abuse cycle" would continue in this case, not over Astarion, but over Tav.
To make this torture-angst-headcanon-a-soulless-AA-abuser and his terrified victim would have to rewrite everything to be believable.
Including the "you'll drink me at night" sentence that Tav clicks on for AA, and in 6 disgusting patch face neutral here. The "I'm scared" kisses, but bite me and drink my blood all you want.
It's incredibly intrusive and not smart.

Even Angst-Tav, he literally doesn't let go because he's been given consent to an eternal bond, nothing else, that might cause fear.
Otherwise we would have been made aware of that, back at release. What we were given in patch 6 is that Larian monitors Tik Tok and Reddit, but not their script.
Somehow glue together the "torture angst" line and the fact that Tav's answers imply that Astarion is doing nothing evil to them, and the "vampire couple together" dynamic, who has the majority of the lines of play.
I don't trust until I see it, but it seems in patch 7 everything will be as it was on: release, in 1 patch, 2 patch, 3 patch, 4 patch, 5 patch.


And that's just End and Epilogue, there's no implied fear in the other AA scenes either.

I also realize that you probably just enjoy angst. That's understandable. But the writing here isn't very accurate. And it's also one-sided, with spawn we can't behave as conflicted as we do with AA, although Astarion as Lord just breathes and speaks louder about the plans he said before.

Tav is already starting to date an amoral vampire who craves carnage. That's reason enough to break up. Doesn't sound like a damsel in distress.

And that "I'm afraid of kisses" line will only be with the one man for the path of evil.
With Mintara, is someone asking for an opition to be afraid of her?
Technically there's something to be afraid of. That kind of story should be left to the imagination with the mods.

I realize that the Astarion romance is almost devoid of compelex conflict so that the emotions are more complex. But the spelled out optional point from Tav "he's the new Cazador"... He's the new Cazador since Act 1 in that case, since AA already quotes himself before the ritual. We're cuddling with him. And Cazador is incredibly unrevealed and lame. The complexity of the idea of power and evil is gone, all that's left is datamine.
The conflict with Tav, if we were to find out his past of selling criminals to a vampire clan, is much more interesting.
Than a very ridiculously written fear in kissing.

I suppose it would be enough to refuse Astarion's "be his forever and together forever", refuse to kneel or break up with him in the morning if the player doesn't like it. Not click kiss and scare every time.

How exactly does an option that allows another player to experience the ascended Astarion romance the way they interpret it infringe upon your experience if it's optional?

Why would you want to have it optional? Do you even play this romance at all? Can it not be nautral like it looks like in the small preview we was shown?

I thought you didn't want to change the new kiss animation now that they where announced, but now you suddenly care? Do you just like to be provocative in terms of the AA romance?

Infringe in that it doesn't stick together and has no basis in story.

Like, I don't mind the worried look on your face when Tav wants to part ways with Astarion after the tadpole disappeared and their eternal bond didn't. Though it's also not quite in the context of the story as it is with Spawn.
But the logic is consistent - break up, don't like something, sad.

But the kisses you click on after a night of passion? A particular meme is that it's done on the 14th of February, "love flies in the air". I don't think anything in the world would make me agree that this angst, torture in context and well written.

We have other evil paths and characters, if we only intrepret AA as scary, it's biased. Minathra isn't scary? I know some people intrapretise her that way. Add the "I don't like kissing" opition to everyone, well except the good characters I guess. And that would be really weird.

Options should have a story basis and take into context.

I just don't see why the option would distract anything from anyone else. It's like some child throwing a tantrum that if you don't play with my toy the right way you can't have it.

Discussing technical issues or priorities I can understand, but the possessive selfishness of no one should be allowed to experience this romance in any other way than I want them to, I don't understand.

Edit: I mean that was exactly the problem with the scared faces kisses. It forced an interpretation upon people that they didn't want or connect with, and I prefer the more neutral kisses because they leave more room for everyone's interpretation. But including the other as an option doesn't take anything away.

Neutral expressions allows for both parties to enjoy, not catering to the extremes. not super happy or super sad. I would think that would be "perfect" for you since it does not allow anyone to "possess" the romance?

I was just editing that in that I think it's a much better solution if you are going to have that as the only option.

I agree the extremes should be in any optional mods, not in the base game. I'm sure scared faces for Minthara kisses will take off after the mod support release. She is a drow after all, makes "sense" for her character too.

In that case, add such "options" to all companions, please. Not just the Ascended Astarion.

I realise I've taken an unnecessary poke at Larian. I could have done without it.
But honestly this 14 February thing just triggers the PTSD of people I know. There are already enough words on the forum as to why it was very sloppy and didn't have enough basis in story for a valid story development lines within the game. Is this going to continue?

I don't understand you. "child throwing", "possessive selfishness" is that I think that changing or adding in kissing, in intm thing - fear - after six months of release in a game that doesn't fit the context of the story - it's not the best thing to do on 14th February or any other day.

See, the point here is to avoid the very toxic discussions regarding ascended Astarion's story and character. Because those disagreements are causing so much resentment, if there are suggestions to solutions that could satisfy everyone, then they are not forcing either of the interpretations upon anyone else.

If there is only going to be one final set of kiss scenes, then something neutral that allows for different interpretations is the best solution.

If you could implement different sets depending on player choice - submissive, abusive, romantic or over-the-top-Gomez-Addams if you want, then you can just pick the set that you feel is the most cohesive to your interpretation of the story.

Sure, and I understand that we are going into issues of technical limitations and priorities and for practical reasons you cannot indulge every suggestion that any player requests.

I want a different set of "facial expressions" at the Astarion Spawn or God Gale please give me that option. It's not gonna be a big deal, right? Everyone can choose different stories to interpret, in a romance with OTHER characters.

People lately seem to be interested in angst about "toxic controlling relationships", including yaoi trope. But the thing is, the whole story of Mintara and Astarion, Lord Astarion strongly implies that the player is "on the same page" and clearly not a delicate-fragile-"trapped" since they see how these two relate to the world.

It just doesn't make sense then not to press "break up" or start a relationship at all, but yes mods are mods that are written by another story.

What facial expression for the spawn kiss? All you see during the new spawn kiss, is the back of Astarion's head (edit: unless you play as a very tall character). Maybe that's the solution for all these troubles too, simply hide Tav's face in all kiss animations?

I mean, I would take having a functional romance scene with Minthara first and foremost before we go into facial expressions.

I hope they do something about that too in Patch 7. Even though they did not mention it specifically, they did seem to mean several kiss animations.
And yeah, I hope any scared faces would be in mods and not base game, including for kisses with Spawn Astarion.

This.

The expression shown in that short GIF was neutral and allowed for multiple interpretations. We don't even know what the rest will look like. It's too early to complain about patch 7.


At the moment is seems that Larian is reverting the patch that destroyed roleplay options and forced one narrative on everyone and going back to the one that was available from the beginning that actually allowed us to create our own story.


Exactly. If Tav is so visibly distressed, staying in the relationship makes zero sense. Neutral expressions allow for RP of Tav who is struggling internally and then eventually gathers the courage to break up or not. In the epilogue everyone can choose to RP Tav happy with the arrangement or trapped in it. We can't even kiss AA there so the game actually caters to the displeased Tav narrative.