Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Make changed/positive facial expressions for Ascendant Astarion kisses optional

I would like to clarify, I do not want the new expressions Larian announced to be changed or not added. All I'm asking for is the possibility to keep the ones that are already in the game, too, because that was the story I experienced with my character. It's really not my intention to upset anyone, or for the fearful expressions to be forced onto other people's player characters again. I understand the faces that came with patch 6 messed up the roleplaying aspect for a lot of people, and I feel that the same thing would happen with my Tav if the coming change is mandatory for everyone. I am only asking for the option to play my character the way I want to, not for others to share my narrative or play the same way.

In that case, give me the same opportunity with all the companions in the game. If you want different "facial expression" sets, it's fair to do it for EVERYONE. Not just for Ascended Astarion.

The whole paragraph speaks of the kisses across all patches, realignment to what was before is something I mentioned in my first post in this thread as well. You're making it sound like people had a problem that the expressions are not as neutral enough as they were before, which you can see in the pics is not the case. Tav was always clearly happy when kissing Astarion, but suddenly that is no longer the case in patch 6.

The best thing will perhaps be to wait and see what we are getting for expressions in Patch 7. And if you can not work with that I truly hope and believe there will be mods that reinstate the old expressions for you and others that really liked them.

Now you're reading me wrong. As I've explicitly stated before, my point is that people have had issues with both the amount and lack of emotion since early access. In that context Patch 6 has too much fear and lacks joy.

Some people have always hated the randomly fearful expressions throughout the game -- including myself. The wrinklemap edit in particular is a fix for a character that's meant to be more mature, dignified, or just not very expressive. The issues people have had with the emotions displayed include the kind, though. It would be too ambitious to fix with that particular mod. You'll still see OOC faces, just less extreme facial expressions.

Ok, I see your point now. I don't think patch 6 should have introduced fear and no joy in that scene in the first place, considering what we had in the previous patches.

None of the other characters have had this kind of change in expressions. I am only asking for the chance to continue playing my Tav character the way I have until now, not for new reactions to be added or the ones that are being added not to be added.

Are you a tester, or maybe you've seen new facial expressions? Because I'm not.

I agree with Kira, maybe wait for the 7th patch first?

It was because it upset a lot of people and did not fit with the gameplay logically. I understand what you feel as I have gone through the same myself. I think we all should give the new expressions a try before we write them off completely.

Thank you for understanding. I really didn’t mean to make people upset, neither do I have any malicious intent. I just want everyone to play the game how they wish to. I decided to make the request now while the game hasn’t yet updated because I figured by the time the patch comes out it will be far too late.

Are you a tester, or maybe you've seen new facial expressions?

"In Patch 7, we’ve made improvements to the facial animations of your character during some kissing cinematics, including with the ascended Astarion."

Key word *including*. This is not a patch for AA fans. Other expressions are changing too. Including other entire cinematics. Larian seems to be fixing what they deem needs to be fixed.

Should we have all kissing expressions toggled so others can play how they did in patch 6? Shall we toggle the cinematics for UA as well?

This is a massive patch. There are changes for everyone.

You see, leaving a hint of fear behind uglifies the romance.
It uglifies without context and very unintelligent. I already showed you the script.
Not to mention that associating intimate things with fear and sadness should be avoided, would still be a potentially trigger moment.
Tav literally chose - gently - roughly in the night scene, and enjoyed everything, including the rough. There was no fear in this moment because it's an intimate, consensual thing.
Considering what a traumatizing way it was done on February 14 replacing happy kisses with fear. I frankly don't think it's a good idea to keep it.

What we should generally feel about Astarion as a bloody murderer, why is there no fear during the kiss with him in Act 2 when he can smile looking at horrible things. Like those corpses on the stakes in the Sharr.
I guess dodging a kiss and getting kicked out of camp? Break up. But if we don't because kissing implies the character's consent to it, to romance.
What now to add fear in characters during a kiss that might scare something in case what they're doing is telling us we don't like it?
It's not possible while there is a "break up", it's not logical if you continue the romance, it's not logical if you start.
Might as well add content for those guys who will be annoyed by the whole Astarion "I love killing him, he makes me sick" thing.

So I'm going to cast Angst Tav with mods, like the paladin who doubts the tenderness of spawn Astarion and is always worried about whether his vampire "nature" will take over, realizing the angst potential of this ending that's been hinted at.

I'd rather have a romance with Spawn with a mood of agreement, of fun, because otherwise what's the point of starting and continuing?

Neutral faces mentioned for all characters is the solution. But I still think that all this can be done by mods, where the very request for kissing will be changed then, it will be suitable.

I feel like people are being needlessly hostile/passive-aggressive towards OP (I'm not talking about any other disagreements that have happened in this thread between other users that will naturally rise from discussing the topic, I consider those fair game, I mean comments directed at OP themselves), who is making a pretty mild petition in a very sensible manner. Larian is free to listen or not (and they most likely will not! it sounds like a hassle to program), as anyone else is free to disagree and expose their opinion on the subject matter, of course, but I think OP's comments are being taken in bad faith just because of the subject matter... it can be discouraging to be met with so much opposition in fan spaces even when you're being polite and respectful, and I hope OP doesn't feel unwelcome here.

My personal opinion is that I see no natural way to include the choice to pick an option, so I prefer the single neutral stance. I also think that the reason those options aren't being asked of other companions is that their romances haven't really been written in a way where those dynamics can be interpreted (arguments can be made for DJ SH and Minthara, I suppose). If Tav looked frightened in a romance with Wyll it'd be strange, because there's no hint of toxicity in a romance with him. While I understand some people might say "but there aren't hints with AA either!" I feel like there's a reason this is a popular topic with him, so it's at least sensible to say there must be some sort of element to his story that makes this interpretation happen.

I'm intimidated by Halsin, аnd his aggressive hints about he to be the third leg of the your pair. But he must be taken to camp if you want to break the curse to Act 2. He's also great bait for Orin. If there's ever a "Tav's scared faces from AA to talk to Halsin" mod, I'll definitely install it for myself. That's a joke... Although every joke has a bit of truth in it.

In general, in terms of implementing the "emotion control" request, I find it costly and difficult to implement. And it has to be introduced initially at all stages, not at a kiss with a single companion on a particular route.
We can't control the faces of fear/sadness that occasionally pop up on Tav throughout the game (like when our friend Jergal climbs out of the grave, the barn in the extinct village, or the gracefulness of the level "potato" when dancing with Will or repeating a trick on Gale). They break the immersion, too. You can say "My Tav well in his life he wouldn't have been scared/done that", but it's in the game. It's something that players just have to turn a blind eye to. As sad as that sounds.
Neutral facial expressions are an outlet for any player to guess what they want to see: slight sadness, joy, fear, or whatever.
I, unfortunately, was not among the testers, so I am looking forward to September to see all the innovations, including the AA branch.

While I can understand being apprehensive about upcoming changes that you're not used to... the extreme facial expressions should be relegated to a mod. Especially since they evoke such negative feelings for many players. It shouldn't suddenly be the default after all these months of the game being out before Patch 6. The default should be neutral, or expressing pleasure/happiness (as kisses usually do/should).
I am very sure that a mod with those extreme negative expressions will be made available so that you and those who like them can have them again.

Yes, that's important to note. It's not solely AA that will get these types of changes. So personally, I also don't think he should be the only one that is given two options for kiss facial expressions (as others have said, would create a double standard).

In other discussions where people have expressed that they do not want to have the patch 6 kisses in their game and asked for at least some option to avoid them, the suggestion that they could just rely on mods wouldn't have been very helpful or productive and it would have been rejected and thrown out.

Why doesn't the same apply in this case?

That's not what happened. Since Larian was taking so long to do something about patch 6, modders took the matter into their own hands. We were actually sharing links to these mods in Astarion threads to help each other out and be able to continue the romance until we heard news from Larian.

What's up with the posts trying to rewrite history? First it was supposedly only hardcore fans who complained about the kisses and now we supposedly rejected mod suggestions. LOL.

Then why did you continue to request that the facial expressions had to be changed after the mods were available? Couldn't you just have used the mods?

Edit: And I mean that you were right in continuing to express that opinion, because the response to just use mods isn't very helpful for a lot of different reasons. That's what I am trying to point out.

Because modders shouldn't fix games that are still getting patches, but the developers themselves whose actions hurt many people. If the upset was so big that even a gaming magazine made an article about it, it's fair to expect Larian to do something about their mistake that affected their paying customers, especially if said patch was advertised as a happy Valentine's Day gift.

Besides that, the complaints also related to body language where Tav is kissing Astarion with clenched fists and not even touching him. It doesn't look like it's an easy mod fix. The bite kiss seems to be particularly difficult to alter and there's still no solution for it.