Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Disappointed in Larian

I think it’s a crazy choice on Larian’s part to make such a concrete statement of “this game is done. We are moving on from it and it isn’t our focus anymore”. There was nothing stopping them from doing things in the same way other developers have and just saying “thank you for all your love for the game. We’d like to tell you a bit about what our next project is”. Sure it was necessary for them to clarify their plans aren’t involving dlc and sequels, but the way they worded statements about the IP and how happy they were to be done seems like a way for Swen to just personally shut down any ideas people would have for the future of the game. He didn’t need to rub salt in the wound the way he did unless he wanted to make it abundantly clear that he himself is done with Baldurs Gate and doesn’t want it to be the thing Larian is known for. I suppose as the director of the private studio he can do whatever the hell he wants, but I would be pretty pissed off if he decided that this game should only exist for the fact that it made Larian popular so he can show people his original ideas. Frankly, I just play games that I think look cool, and I’m not going to follow around a particular developer regardless of what they do. I’m here because I care about Baldur’s Gate 3 and I want the game to be the best it can be and not just a testing ground for Larian to experiment in and then leave behind. I don’t have a single care in the world for the setting of Rivellon, so nothing about the quality of BG3 would make me go “wow I’m going to play DOS 3 because this was cool even though I hated the bits I’ve played of DOS 2”. If Larian brings a brand new IP to the table, I’ll be curious to check it out, but my decision to play it will be based on if it’s interesting and if they actually release a game with a good ending. The enjoyment I got from BG3 isn’t influencing me to buy another game in a completely separate IP just because the developers are good writers.

Yes, he has been pretty transparent about it, as well as mentioning that he didn't expect people to care that much about 20 years old IP. He restated it in recent interview as well. [For transparency sake, I don't think it was wrong to do on Larian part - while it is no BG3 sequel I might have wished for, Larian was very transparent from the very beginning of what BG3 is, and myself (and anyone else who has done the most basic of research) known what they are getting into. So while it is fun to argue from an "academic" perspective if BG3 should have been BG3, I don't think it throws any shade at Larian or game they have made].

First of all, I don't think we have any insight into inner workings of Larian - one shouldn't take public face at its... well face value. Swen indeed seems to have final word, but I also don't think we have reasons to suspect that he doesn't take advice from other creative leads, nor is in charge of everything - it is a massive company afterall. Was he the one who didn't want to do more BG3 in spite of his employess wishes? Or were his employess burned out and spent, and they felt they poured all they had into BG3, and he decided it would be better to move on? They have worked on this game for a long, long time. I wouldn't be surprised if every person on the team was ready to move on. Or maybe they couldn't come to mutual agreemant with WotC? Really who can tell. All we know is what Larian has stated - and that's Larian has always done the next cool thing, and they didn't want success to undermine who they are as a company. Respect, especially as they seem to realise and accept that the next project might as well not be as succesful as BG3 was.

We also really can't tell if trying to make BG3 better is a valid project - I have no doubt they are issues and design challenges that Larian is well aware of (probably much better than we are), but that's something they can take onboard and try to do better in the next game, rather than rebuilding this one. Sven is on a record saying that act3 is bit of content he is the most proud of - and it is understandable, as far as scope it is the biggest thing they have done so far, with some new to them technology. Could it be better? Hell yes, but they might have come to conclusion that they would rather do another game from scratch with what they have learned, rather than trying to itirate further on this one.

Well if he is still being very open about it, then thats fair and I might be abit too cynical about it.

But then again, it is an IP that's both attached to Bioware and DnD, which does carry a lot of weight behind it (Morso DnD ofcourse).
And then you have the released game not being super faithfull to DnD lore (e.g. Balduran and Mindflayers (Who seem to be abit misunderstood but I'm no expert)), BG1-2 lore (Sarevok and Viconia) as well as the DnD Ruleset (Which I'm not against changing a ruleset to be more fun, some of those changes were are abit game breaking).

And with post-release, while adding a fair amount of fixes and gameplay features, is otherwise just being "abandoned"; it does come across as Larian just begrungingly making BG3, rather than something they were 100% behind.

I guess it just comes down to personal opinion of the game really.


I'd hope so too, especially if the next one is sci-fi, but this being their 4th game that had a rather rough last Act doesn't leave much confidence.
The behind the scences stuff that also seems to echo DoS 2's rather ambitious plan, but having to hard dial it back during EA, also doesn't help.
In saying that, this is their least rough out of the 4, so they are improving atleast.

Otherwise, I'd agree that moving on is the best thing they can do and well... how, or why, would you try to fix something that is, as per popular opinion, not considered broken.

Just rewatched the BAFTA video after viewing it when it first came out, and it’s crazy that seemingly they’re saying all the things we are saying here and yet they aren’t doing anything about it???

They’re talking about when the right moment to stop working on something is, and how they listen to feedback and acknowledge and fix their mistakes because they want to keep players happy, but seemingly they aren’t listening to the more fundamental things people are saying about this game, which I find confusing.

Maybe I’m just coping with my disappointment, but it gives me hope that Swen said “right now we’re still treating the game like it just came out”. This video is only from 2 months ago, so assumedly there’s still a lot of effort going into working on this game while the “we’re moving on to something new” idea is mainly for the executives and team leaders who are starting to put together the first ideas for what comes next. It seems like their cut-off point for fully stopping and leaving the game for the community is when mod support is fully integrated and the community has complete control over things. Everything about patch 7 refers to it as the beginning of mod support, so there may still be a chance that they have gameplay and narrative adjustments still cooking in the oven for after Patch 7 that they haven’t told us about yet. It’s highly unlikely we’re getting any “restored cut content” (I’m not a believer of the theory that the upper city was scrapped last minute), but I sincerely hope that more dialogue tweaks or cinematics like the ones we’re seeing in Patch 7 are still in the future to improve on things like Minthara’s character or missing companion reactivity in Act 3.

Ive got my fingers crossed that there will be a post of some kind with juicy announcements in a few days when it’s officially the one year anniversary of release, but we shall see.

They've said they're going to focus mainly on bug fixes and quality of life improvements going forward. And they seem to be treating the release of mod support as an unofficial hand off of the game to the community. Even though they won't be releasing anything that provides the modding community with true creative freedom. From what I can tell it's primarily meant to be a more streamlined way to make cosmetic changes, cheats, and spell additions/adjustments. And a way for console users to access mods.

Larian does listen to player feedback which is why I'm hoping they'll be open to changing their minds about a definitive edition at some point. But as of now I don't think they intend to truly build upon the game in any way, at any time. They can revisit their partnership with wotc but until/unless they do I imagine what they're able to do with the game is very limited. For example they can hardly add companion reactivity in act 3 when they no longer own the rights to the companion characters.

Dunno if you've seen this, but apparently BG4 was being worked on before they decided they didn't want to.

I guess that puts to bed the idea that WOTC had anything to do with no expansion or sequel.

I think Paul Valéry said it best:



I definitely wouldn't expect anything happen. Release of modding support, probably means that Larian doesn't intend to change the game much further, as doing so could continue messing with mods.



Yup

Yes they were working on a DLC and considering doing BG4 but changed their minds. I don't have a problem with them deciding not to do either of these things. I never expected or wanted a BG4 from them and a full sized DLC would be a pretty massive undertaking if it took place after the main story of the game because they'd have to account for all the permutations.

My issue isn't with them deciding not to make DLC. It's with them abandoning this game when the final act is in it's current state. And I do think the word "abandon" is applicable here because the flaws are many and glaring. The game doesn't include what was said would be included right up until release and denying that is dishonest. They also set the standard for releasing a final version of the game that rectifies the most glaring flaws themselves. Which is why it's so off-putting when they talk about how liberating not doing this for BG3 is.

They're not willing to put the care into BG3 that they did into their past games and they're openly expressing elation over this. I know they don't intend it to come off that way. They're excited about their future projects and want to share that excitement. But they're also clear that they can't wait to leave BG3 behind. The game deserves at least the same attentiveness their previous games got post-initial release, and despite it being their most successful and beloved game they don't care enough to give it that.

Like what?

The only think I can think of is Epiloge which was to take place in the upper city, which was scrapped due to it being too long. So it is not coming back, but instead Larian was working on snappier ending (camp epilogue, and soon to come expanded evil endings).

Exploring the upper city, consequences for the tadpole overuse, the many ending and so on.

Larian lied quite a lot even days before release.

Exploring the upper city, consequences for the tadpole overuse, the many ending and so on.
[/quote]
So the epilogue that was scapped and is being replaced with other stuff, and you personally hoping that that game would pay off better some of the big promised choices (techically there are consequnces to using tadpole, like an extra dice roll). It is perfectly fine to be disappointed with finished product, but it doesn't make it unfinished.

And even if Larian wasn't entirely honest with us, and there was plan for pre-end game upper city area that was scrapped - that happens like... all the time? That's all part of development. That some bits of the game aren't great doesn't mean they are unfinished. If Larian planned for upper city and wasn't able to release it for 1.0 that would be unfinished. If Larian decided to scrap upper city during development, than the game not having the upper city is as intended.

ha! I remember when some claimed there won't be a city of Baldur's Gate in the game as that would be too much. Now some cling for hope that an extra district would somehow make the whole thing better


It doesn't. Witcher1&2 got Enhanced Editions, Witcher3 didn't. And it wasn't because CDPR cared less for Witcher3 - it just launched in a much, much better state and didn't need to be rebranded and relaunched. Than Cyberpunk77 came out and it also needed a bit 2.0 rebranding. I do sincerely hope that Larian won't follow the same route, and their next game won't need a relaunch a year of two after it was "completed" for the first time.

Larian has been supporting BG3 for what will soon be a year. Which I think is about the same as they did with D:OS1&2. I mean, I don't even like BG3 that much, but it is bizzare to me that some bring D:OS2 as some kind of beacon of Larian commitment and perfection, while BG3 on launch was so much more ambitious and in such better state than D:OS2 is now. "They remade D:OS2 act3" might seem like a lot, but not when you compare it to what an act means in BG3. If they are working on polishing what they have, that's probably a better time investment, than creating new content that would release with it's own host of new issues.

Yes, Larian designs overambitious 1st act, spends time in EA to test and improve on it, and rest of their games feels like a let down afterwards. That's, I am afraid, a downside of how they develop their games. It gets better everytime, maybe one day they will figure out how to keep the quality up for the entire title.

I'm also one of the people who are disappointed in Larian. While I wished for DLCs to happen, I would be fine with the state of the game if not for these points:

1. Scrapped Upper City, the wonky location of Cazador's palace being the clearest indication.
2. Abandoned storylines that were leaked, like Cazador being an ally, more hag coven content, Avernus being a playable zone.
3. Not enough party reactivity in act 3 and not enough camp scenes. I'm particularly missing a full party scene before the point of no return, which would include some wholesome friendship moments, extra feedback from companions some time after completing their storylines and a scene with our LIs where we reminisce about the journey so far.
4. Unfinished and buggy endings at launch and having to wait this long for proper epilogues. My chara's head still spins weirdly in some shots during the dock scene.
5. Minthara never leaving early access.
6. The evil storyline being underdeveloped with a lazy excuse that it should be more desolate in comparison to the good path.
7. Not enough evil companions in the game.
8. Removal of scenes from early access that would still make sense to exist in the release version.
9. Railroading when it comes to the Astral Prism choice at the end.
10. Changing Ascended Astarion's narrative several months after release and causing many players huge distress. While they are finally reverting it to the one from all the previous patches after all the backlash, it remains to be seen how patch 7 remedies it. It shouldn't have happened in the first place.
11 The rewrite of Wyll. The early access Wyll seemed much more interesting to me.
12. The butchering of Halsin and turning him into a creepy meme character.
13. Not enough consequences when it comes to using normal tadpoles.

Larian wanting to abandon the game when it's still unfinished makes me wary of their new projects. All in all, Larian went from a studio that I trusted enough to buy the game during early access to a "wait a year and see" one.

Hahaha! Oh god, I forgot how bad Auntie E-Redux was.

Larian have really only themselves to blame. Encounter with Ethel (as well as a lot of other act1 stuff) could have been a nice, self-cointained adventure. And yet, act1 from the very beginning of EA was full of "just wait for the crazy repercussion of those events once you get to Baldur's Gate!" All those cliffhangers are an effective way of building hype for the final product, but one can't help but think that they have written themselves into a corner with a whole ton of unrealistic promises.

BG4 and DLC aside it’s too bad they couldn’t at least have committed to a “Definitive Edition” as the game currently feels unfinished.

I agree with you. I was also very disappointed when it was said that there would be no DLC, the game would then end here and the final patch would come. And in the game you see that a lot of things were simply left open, stories that sometimes don't make any sense and you notice that a lot of things were/are simply unfinished.

Today was BG3's 1 year birthday, it wasn't even mentioned in the forum. I don't know if an empty YouTube channel is the right gift. We had already joked that there would definitely be a screensaver... I would now like to have the screensaver.

I'm not interested in new games from Larian at the moment because I haven't finished BG3 yet. I hope that modders there will close these gaps in the future.

Sounds like that's exactly what happened. I certainly expected more from the final act.


Sadly, act 3, just like Minthara, is still in early access. The announcement of Larian being elated to leave BG3 in this state made me abandon my 2nd playthrough. I intended to do more runs, but I highly doubt I'll bother anymore. I might just do a modded repeat of my Tav's story one day when the game is officially done with the patches. Right now, all the hype is gone. I'll still test the updates but I'm actively playing other games.

No mention of the anniversary, huh? I guess they've moved on after getting all the awards. We'll see if the new patch adds anything extra to commemorate the occasion.

I can understand you well when you say that you don't like playing the game like that. Luckily I'm spared from bugs etc. and can play through the game, but I still see the errors or when things are unfinished or illogical. I try to look at it in a relaxed manner and still have fun. I love my Dark Urge too much.

I wish that Minthara still gets the love and care that she deserves. Unfortunately I have less hope for Act 3. I'm at least happy enough that my Durgie no longer has to look like a scared deer when she kisses AA. I'm careful what I wish for and just hope I don't have to pay a high price for this facial expression elsewhere.


An extra free fireworks display in the fireworks shop.

The Witcher 3 got two huge dlcs. Each one had enough content to be a small game itself. Blood and Wine came with a new world and the conclusion of the main quest served as a true ending for the saga. The "Complete Edition" of the game includes the dlcs. The game has also been updated for years with new free content, including new scenes and story content. They added in whole romance scenes because people were unsatisfied. And the most recent "next gen" major free update included a whole new story quest, a small explorable area, minor side quests and items, a romance scene, etc.

So I would say The Witcher 3 undoubtedly got even more care post launch than the previous two games, despite being superior to them when released.

People are bringing up DOS2 because as you said BG3 followed the same pattern with the drop in quality at the end, but they've decided to leave it as is this time. I don't think it matters that BG3 started in a better place than DOS2. The point is that Larian made the same mistake but this time they don't care enough to do what they've done in the past to rectify it. Their future games may be better, but that doesn't change anything for BG3.

I would also say talking about an explorable area of the game a month before release, and then publishing a video where they talked about it again two weeks before release, indicates that something happened and it wasn't simply content they decided to scrap during development. They've talked about content that they cut during development like Ketheric being a potential companion, avernus being an explorable area, etc. But they've been vague about the upper city and only said it was meant to be explorable in their original scrapped epilogue.

I also want to say I agree that the threads in act 1 and 2 don't really pan out in a satisfying way, if at all, when you get to the city. Barcus and the ironhand gnomes and Rolan are the couple of exceptions that come to mind. After years of playing act 1 in early access I was so excited to finally get to the city and see the continuation of certain storylines, but you mostly just find some characters with a few lines of dialogue. It was disappointing.

Mol and the gang of tiefling children story comes to nothing and there's still dialogue indicating that Mol was meant to be in the upper city. Silfy is in the lower city and says she's waiting for them to open the gates to the upper city where Mol is. I'm not sure what the original intentions were but they just stuck Mol in the theives' guild with broken dialogue lines as an end to the quest.

They kill off Rugan even if you save him in act 1. There's no real conclusion to the ending of the Connor aspect of Marina's storyline even though it's suggested there will be if she leaves with him in act 1. You can't have a real conversation with the hag victim you can save from Ethel's swamp. You can't even have a drink with Lakrissa. I guess I expected too much because I believed more of the characters you'd find later in Baldur's Gate would have actual quests when you encountered them.

I'm curious.

Is your disappointment more to do with the overall lack of development in the stories and content more so than Larian's decision to not continue support of the game?

Since you've brought up things like cut content and disatisfying progression/conclusions to side stories. Which is more to do with overall development, rather than a continued development (Yes, theoretically continued development could allow them to add to these things, but generally free post-release content is more focused on bug fixes and balance issues)

Even games that do get continued support post release (Both in terms of free updates and paid DLC) you often still get content that is underdeveloped.

For example, in Elden Ring there's been a number of patches that have even implemented content (Jarburg and the Colleseum for example) as well as the recent DLC. But even with all this, there's underdeveloped stories (Given the DLC was mostly focused on Marika and Miquella there was a general lack of progression in other characters stories)

Meaning that even if BG3 got an "Enhanced Edition" or DLC, many of these things might still not be resolved. Act 3 conclusions to side stories might continue to be underdeveloped, cut content might remain cut (Depending on if they decide to base the DLC's location in a cut area like Avernus or the Upper City). Updates might focus entirely on new things or problems that people have with the main story (Things like allowing Omeluum to be used in the conclusion)