Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Make changed/positive facial expressions for Ascendant Astarion kisses optional

Who is saying that's what's happening?


Multiple people in this thread are people who have actively come in to shout down people on the patch 6 thread and insult us. Case in point:


It's very easy to spot talking points when theyre thrown at us like tomatoes everywhere we go.


No one is shouting. Just stating their opinions with reasoning, with some also recognizing these are usual culprits for hostile debate.

Though I do agree this request is rather innocuous. And OP is definitely careful to toe lines and not give off impressions. So regardless of the legitimatcy of this request, I think it's fine to treat it like OP is being genuine, and not just another "I'm such a big AA fan Larian please make AA kill Tav, I'm such a fan" poster.

But regardless, my personal opinion is still that making toggle expressions for one character and one only is unnecessary, and if it's considered, then toggle should happen for all.

Edit to add:


This is unnecessary mud flinging and an accusation that AA fans have been harassing a writer. From all I have seen this is very much not true. This is speculation that can do an extreme amount of harm to an already harassed fan base. Don't make things up.

I find it hilarious how people here are trying hard to pretend that it's not about the abusive narrative that they want to keep. Many people cannot accept the loss of such a colorful argument, everyone knows that. And that's more than obvious to all the AA fans here.

Complain about my comments all you want.

While I think it'd be disingenuous to not recognise someone could very much "fake" something like this, I also really dislike the presumption that people who enjoy a tragedy instead of a straightforward romance must not be genuine in their enjoyment of the character at all. Especially when, as far as I know, I'm the only poster here who has ever expressed finding this aspect interesting, and it's gotten my "veracity" doubted on a quite a few ocassions, so I kind of have to assume you're talking about me. I can only speak about my personal experience, but it's frustrating how on places like Reddit I'll be isolated for liking AA at all, while here I'm isolated for "liking him the wrong way".


Well... yes? That can be a narrative people can find interesting. No one's pretending that it's not about enjoying that, because that's very much what it is.


It's not an accusation that (a minority of fans, but still a section of) people have harassed/stalked them, it's a fact. I've seen some vile stuff being thrown at them. I assume saying it could be /due/ to the harassment is indeed speculating, but it is annoying that now we're acting like they were fired, when it seems from everything I've seen that they weren't.

Why not. But still, I'd say the fact that the kissing scenes with Ascended Astarion have changed so much with patch 6, with what will happen with patch 7 next (we'll have to see the full extent of it then), would mean it makes more sense in this precise case. People came to that romance before patch 6, others after it. Quite a difference in experiences. Had in the mix the little "gentle/hurt" thing that could also be a call to branching out, so more sense there, again. Just to say there's a little more to it.

Of course, technical things etc. But still, the suggestion from someone to still have what they discovered the romance with, while others have more of a reverse to the previous patch 6 state, is not insulting.

I want the same options for all companions, I just don't understand why others get so much less attention and content. The game really doesn't revolve around Astarion, much less Ascended Astarion.


If Larian decides to fulfill OP's request, let it be applicable to ALL.


Well again, asking for changes like this when even the players haven't seen anything is really early and concerning. I haven't seen any new emotes, what if they are acceptable to all RP playthroughs?

The early pages of the AA kissing threads are full with comments of people who said that the new kisses were too much and supported the change of the facial animations - me included - but we were continuously told to shut up because we supported the change for different reasons than the dark romance narrative. One of the reasons frequently give was, that this is the feedback forum and we should not distract from the feedback topic, which was asking for the kisses to be changed. So maybe take your own advice and do not distract from the feedback topic of this thread, which is someone asking for options. Hm?

As for why I looked into this thread, I was amused by someone asking for a change to something that has not even been added yet and now find that OP is treated with increasing hostility for not enjoying AA the way a proper AA enjoyer should enjoy the fellow. How a bunch of people supposedly liking a fairly chaotic character are so painfully dogmatic, is beyond me.

Edit:

Have you read that 50 page monstrosity on the kiss topic in this forum in which this specific writer was often singled out for all the blame. That cannot be pleasant if you come across it. Especially not the portions in which said writer was accused of malicious intent. Though "Oh they must have hired a special animator just to make us feel bad" still takes the cake.

We'll just have to disagree here. If something is added to the game that makes someone else happy and enjoying it and doesn't affect me, I don't see why denying them their fun makes it any more fun for me.

I mean, more kisses would not be rejected by the part of the playerbase that stayed around for the romance. It wouldn't really make sense to give the same amount of variety to everyone, though -- Gale is a fairly stable person, for example. He doesn't need 2, 3 or even 5 sets.

Additionally, while Astarion may have gotten two sets of kisses, SH really is "God's favourite princess" coding wise -- flags and triggers and bugs galore, oh my.

The people not pleased by that suggestion (more kisses for every companion) are probably those like me who would like an all around better experience. Fewer bugs, smarter NPCs, a more fleshed out evil ending, etc. I'm at a point where I do not want more SH kisses: I get rid of her upfront in Act 1 when I don't want to kill the Nightsong, because I don't want to deal with her bugginess. Shar finally punished me for this transgression with the elevator glitch. Joke's on her, it didn't get my entire party!

Since papercut_ninja insists on bringing up arson slander as a reason to hate on AA romancers. I did not mean OP. Do you see that I say living in happy harmony = Patch 5, someone = Larian, fire on building = Patch 6, one neighbour thinks it nice = those who would like to keep the expressions at the cost of others (not OP), other neighbour who chokes from the flames, or even gets burned = those who where hurt in Patch 6.

It's entirely a metaphor to try to get you guys to understand, directed at Silver and papercut_ninja, not at OP. I have made 2 non-hostile replies to OP. And I consider myself quite done with this thread.

I haven't seen any new emotes, what if they are acceptable to all RP playthroughs?

But the whole point with the suggestion was that no one had to sit in the metaphorical smoke and suffer. It's optional so those who enjoy the warm and fuzzy feeling of this flavour of the romance could have that, while those who choke on it can happily live in harmony somewhere else.

Edit: And again this concept of hate is being thrown around. I have not made a single negative comment about ascended Astarion or people who romance him.

Like I said, it's in my opinion more about the way someone (OP's case apparently) can discover a story/character and connect to it that first time, here playing only after patch 6. The way they build their own character and emotional responses and such through what is there to experience at the time. They grow attached to it, and the idea of change can make them think of solutions. Like that suggestion.

I agree about the underdevelopment of other companions. I'm just saying I see that problem here more clearly if we're talking about the player character's reaction to Ascended Astarion kisses.

But yes, beyond the technical aspect, Larian fulfill the requests they want and/or deem possible. And of course, I think it's fine to use the "suggestions" section of the forums.

Yes, I can write perfectly well about all the companions, and what I want to see in the game, and what options in my opinion should be added, all I ask is equality in this plan.
You want to be split into two options in a kiss? No problem, give it to everyone. Maybe I'm tired of boring Gale, and I want to show him how much I don't want to kiss him. Or maybe I'm scared of the Gale God. And I'm experiencing fear/horror/ pain in the epilogue.

This kind of dodgy support from people who expressed dislike for AA, didn't even play his path, but acted like they were experts, followed by constant arguments with those who were genuinely hurt and then were told that they failed to see that Astarion is Cazador 2.0 looked pretty disingenuous to me. But sure, let's focus on the subject matter of this very thread instead.

Gale if funnily enough a pretty good example for when different sets of kisses make sense. Throughout the game he has his normal kisses which are all very sweet and lovely, but once you enter endgame with him, he has a new set of endgame kisses. They are all of them devastatingly desperate and highly emotional and they are absolutely perfect because they serve the purpose to show you how scared he is of loosing the final battle. (Which might get important later on, depending on your choices.) The kisses change, because his state of mind and the situation the two of you are in changes.

Sorry, I meant *more* different kisses for different routes, all of which are toggleable (that was Every's suggestion, I believe).

I don't want scared facial expressions even as an optional choice. The main complaint about these kisses is that they rewrote the character, before them Tav wasn't afraid of AA in any context, fear of AA was fanon. People were conjuring up scenes of violence in the AA route that weren't there. Angst fans simply have no business being in the AA route. AA talks about protecting Tav and that Tav has nothing to fear. People saw this exact dynamic between Tav and AA all six months after the game was released, when Tav was happy when AA kissed him. And then there were these expressions of fear that were not justified by anything. In all the developer notes, even when AA grabbed Tav by the neck - they BOTH enjoyed it. Every time Astarion bit Tav - Tav enjoyed it. Not once before in the game was Tav horrified by what AA was doing. I repeat, that was the main complaint about patch 6 - people were faced with a completely different reality based on the fanon of people who barely play this route entirely. And now OP wants that back in the game, even though AA fans were pushing for fear to be completely removed from the AA route. As an AA fan, I will never accept that the AA route was rewritten half a year after the game was released. Patch 7 fixes the mistake. AA fans know this. And everyone knows who benefited from the emotion of fear on Tav's face. On the part of an AA fan, asking to leave the emotion of fear is a shot in the face to yourself.

I can understand equality. I'm all for more options for everyone if possible. I focus on that one here because that's the one OP came here to talk about. I get the "then so, for everyone" as an answer, I can get behind it. But I don't know if it helps much here, to be honest (maybe me). Plus, equality and other companions aside, I consider it as fixing one big mistake. Meaning something with Ascended Astarion, a romance I consider a bit more complex to treat well, where Larian changed a lot with patch 6, will revisit with patch 7. Now there are people that came to it and learnt to love it before and after patch 6 (and those after patch 6 will know the after patch 7, and though premature maybe, I can understand wondering about future enjoyment). Just for that, I might consider this case to be on top of the list of more choices when kissing one's LI. Though I do not know, or maybe have not romanced one, other instances quite like that one (I will gladly hear about it otherwise).

Starting with the release and all 5 patches I played with Ascended Astarion, and there was no abusive behavior in the romance as "many" here want to insist. I'm used to that narrative too, and I'll say it again, Larian is being fixed, not changing/adding anything.
Patch 6 was a mistake, it hurt so many players in so many ways. I'm not going to repeat the entire suggestion thread, which has almost 60 pages.

Stating you disagree with an authors view on romance writing in videogames in a feedback forum is not harassment. Again, it seems a certain portion of the fanbase just stating their opinion is labeled as hostile shouting.

Given this "I love AA abusive, please give us more abuse" was not really a talking point until patch 6, it seems disingenuous. Just a fun way for people to stir the pot. I don't even see people saying others are "enjoying AA the wrong way". Just stating their reasons for disagreeing. But I guess if you're part of a very large and excepted fandom, experiencing disagreement could definitely feel intimidating when you're used to others agreeing with you!


Agreed. No one held down Larian and forced them to click through changes to romance expressions in general. Blaming AA fans for the changes and not simply accepting Larian is course correcting *many issues* to stay consistent with their vision is really silly. Larian decided to change things because it did not fit what they wanted.

If Larian wants to do a "choose disposition" at the start of the games that'd be cool. Be making expressions optional for one single character to uphold a fleeting, single patch change, feels bizarre and unnecessary.