Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback I dream of smiling at my beloved (a request for a happy face for Tav in Ascended Astarion's kisses).

Dear Larian, thank you for creating a wonderful game and such a unique, appealing and stunningly alive character as Astarion, who is definitely a rogue because he stole my heart and doesn't want to give it back. <3 And I would be very happy if I was given the opportunity to be happy in romantic interactions with him. Yes, it sounds like a pun, but it makes sense - first of all, mirror neurons, empathy - it works one way or another, it affects the person on the other side of the monitor, a smile begets a smile. Secondly, it gives the possibility of real immersion in the game, the possibility of associating myself with my character, and not just watching a scene where some woman, whom I created in the character editor, curves her face next to Astarion (the connection with Tav in this case immediately collapses and I want only one thing - to transfer the camera angle to Astarion). I was happy in patch 5. And with the new animations, when Tav had a smile on her face when I played with the Happy Faces mod, I also felt much better, and when I played the night after the Ascension with the "Re-live your final night" mod (and in this case I don't even mean changing the scene itself, which is also beautifully done, but the fact that the mod gave Tav a happy and loving expression on her face, and that night became real, with the previous facial expression there would have been no such effect). And I really want to smile at my beloved when he kisses me!

Neutral facial expressions are not bad, it's acceptable, I can play with that too. It's acceptable, like a gray cold rainy day, when of course, if you have a choice, you stay home, but if you have to go, you go, there's nothing special about it. And a smile is like a ray of sunshine that makes your heart feel warmer, especially if it's the smile of a loved one. I really want to roleplay like that, I want to smile at Astarion to make him feel warmer too. He said he would miss the warmth of my body, but I could warm him with the warmth of my soul. Yes, I am an evil character, and I choose this way because I want my sunshine Astarion to always be able to smile at the sun, to feel alive and be able to enjoy life to the fullest. He has suffered too much, as much as a human being cannot bear, and I want to help him find a new life, the most precious moments for me in the game are those when Astarion smiles sincerely.


And I want to smile at him! I love the real him, without masks, I rejoice when he opens up and becomes himself. And I want to smile at him, to give him joy, full acceptance, a safe and happy space of love. I won't have a "neutral" or tense face, yes, I will of course get over it and use mods if anything, I'm used to it and have been through enough, including heavy emotions, for the sake of staying in this game. But I would be very happy to be given a warm and happy love story. Please let Tav be happy and smile in the kisses of the Ascended Astarion!

I'll repeat the previous sentiment on the topic of intimacy options. While I think there is too much focus on intimacy in general, if there is something in the game that makes you happy and enjoy the game and it doesn't affect me, I am perfectly fine with you having all the options and content you want for your own fun.

Honestly, kind of the same sentiment as papercut_ninja.

There are technical limitations, I’m sure, but it’s also nice to voice those preferences (since they allow for interactions and suggestions). If only because it gives maybe a better idea of what people can enjoy and focus on (for this game, others, for mods, etc.).

Astarion was the companion that mostly interested me when I started playing (in EA and then after release). Most of all in an evil run. I like that, to me, it’s complex where the story goes with him. I’m probably going to always remain generally not that satisfied with it in its entirety and branching, but that’s a me problem mainly. That said, yes, I can imagine a variety of nicely marked expressions to have, that one too.

I am finding it hard not to see this thread as a provocation after the one that got locked yesterday, which I’ve not had chance to review yet as I’ve just this moment got in from work, but which from the quick glance I was able to take last night included a number of people, including the OP of this thread, behaving in a way that wasn’t in the spirit of the forum rules here. Whether the behaviour was also against the letter, and therefore will attract warnings or suspensions, is something I will need to take stock of later.

I will leave this thread open for now, but please be aware that I will have very low tolerance for poor etiquette in this thread, under which umbrella I include repeating views already rehearsed at length elsewhere. I am already going to have to spend more of my evening than I’d like combing through AA-related discussions from yesterday and confess I’m feeling a bit grumpy about that

Fair warning that if I see anything like yesterday’s behaviour from folk on any side of this debate, then this thread will get locked pretty quickly and people will find themselves using up some of their three strikes! Please, if you really think you have something new to say on this topic at all, keep it friendly and constructive.

I'm convinced that in a romance, happy faces are the main line.

I heard that the issue of "Tav's faces" is not new, after patch 6 I started paying more attention to my Tav's face. Where the character was angry or afraid.

Sometimes Tav is a bit distrustful - but that's all details. Sometimes I'd prefer a neutral face at certain points.

When Astarion first drinks Tav there face of horror and reluctance. I realize that vampire spawn don't inspire a sense of trust in Faerun. However, Tav agrees to it. So in my opinion it makes more sense to stay still, of course if the dice are rolled right.

You said it right about empathy. I would even say a person's sense of art. There are different systems of character work. Stanislavsky suggests making an image step by step and looking within. Chekhov suggests creating an image of a character and then improving it - "From the outside to the inside."
When we see an emotion we start to think why, to improve that image, "why could it be like that?".
Beyond the image, there's the context of the story. Also most of the answer lines that show the overall atmosphere of the story. Patch 6 turned that into runes.

Patch 5 did not cause much concern, there was a strange moment that all companions can be kissed, hugged. Astarion on the path of evil cannot be touched. Astarion on the path of good cannot be kissed. I can interpret this in a variety of ways.
Which won't mean much considering we can hug Minthara, Sharr SH too.
Fanservice that Astarion partially dodged.

But now I'm worried about adding other interactions, especially in a romance. Like a hug or something.
The desire to delve in and improve an image about distrust, sadness and fear when it doesn't fit the context of the story, especially in intimate things I certainly don't have.

Yeah, after patch 6 I started paying more attention to the nuances of Tav's facial expressions too. Especially in the second playthrough, because in the first playthrough I was largely absorbed in the story and I was more interested in watching Astarion's facial expressions, thanks to Neil's excellent performance, Astarion has a stunningly lively face that conveys many different expressions. And on the second playthrough, when the plot is already known, and some scenes have been played several times, you start to pay more attention to details. Although even on the first playthrough, I occasionally had a note of irritation with Tav because of her inappropriate facial expressions, which were too striking and took me out of the immersion. You made a very good point about one such scene - when Astarion drinks Tav for the first time. The way Tav looks at Astarion when he asks her for a bite, as if she's ready to pounce on him, and during the bite itself - my warrior would never make a face like she's being tormented, because of a pair of vampire fangs. I wanted to roleplay a strong and resilient character; I understand warrior roleplay as someone who can experience ardor in close combat, with a fairly high pain threshold, which makes sense, given that this character regularly gets hits harder than Astarion's bite, and under the influence of adrenaline in a fight, doesn't really care about it. I felt a genuine desire to help Astarion, and the way vampire spawns are treated on Faerûn only reinforces that desire. On the second playthrough it is even more noticeable. Perhaps this discrepancy can be avoided after patch 7, because in patch 7 they talked about the photo mode. If the photo mode allows you to change the camera angle - it will completely solve all the problems with the perception of Tav's facial expressions in dialog scenes, you can focus the camera on the companion, which will increase immersion and allow you to really imagine yourself in Tav's place, without "plot-designed" facial expressions, in those situations where it does not fit. But for kissing scenes, this method won't work (if it's even possible, for now it's just a dream of that possibility) - in those scenes I'd like to enjoy the moment and see my Tav's happy face.


Speaking of Stanislavsky, I would like to add, that his famous: "I don't believe it!" just echoes in my head in response to what Patch 6 did to the general atmosphere of the story. Stanislavsky demanded from the actors an inner transformation, after which they could "see" life through the eyes of the character. Playing immersive, we too see life in the game world through our characters' eyes, and when our character appears to be completely erased from the story, and abruptly replaced by what we saw, really only ruins remain. This doppelgänger is playing his role from a completely different, alien play, it's impossible to perceive.


Yes, this moment is perceived as an injustice to Astarion, and to the players. When it was done for others and not for you, even though everyone paid the same for the game. If anything, I don't believe that romantic scenes are paramount and kisses and hugs should be done with all other aspects of the game needing attention. I just think there should be fairness and equal treatment for all players and companions. If the kisses and hugs in the epilogue weren't done at all, for any of the companions, and instead gave attention to something else that requires it, then that would be the right approach if other aspects of the game really need improvement. But when everyone else is treated well and some category of players are left out, that's a fundamentally flawed approach to game development. I believe that romantic content should be made equally for all players, if there is an opportunity to kiss or hug a companion, then the same opportunity should be available for all LIs in the game. If there aren't enough resources or resources are needed for something else, then perhaps it's better not to do it at all than to save money on a particular fandom by deciding let's make everyone happy, they'll be delighted, but that category of players can be skipped and save money.

And this problem would be solved perfectly by adding the patch 5 kiss to Astarion's epilogue. I'm also a bit worried about adding other interactions, and absolutely don't want something that might reinforce the image of distrust, sadness, and fear (quit the game again, and wait for the modders to fix or remove it). And there's no reason to spend on a new scene when a wonderful and universally loved scene is already filmed, ready, and can just be put back into the game! About the hug - it would be great to repeat the final hug of Act 2 (when Astarion has already responded to the hug and pressed himself against Tav), of course, we need a slightly different start of the hug, when Astarion will behave confidently and will respond to the hug at once. There is already one touching and beautiful moment where the finale echoes the Act 2 confession scene - the moment when Astarion gives his hand to Tav, I loved it. A similar moment with a hug in the epilogue would be a great gift for fans. For me especially - I always choose to open my mind to Astarion, I find it a more serious and deeper version of a declaration of love, perfect for confessing to someone who lives by the principle of "trust no one". An open mind cannot lie, but it can show and convey the strength and depth of my feelings for Astarion better than words. But there are no hugs in the game at all, alas, it is possible to enter a separate save for the sake of it, purely "for yourself", but within the story Astarion cannot be hugged. I would like it very much to be added at least in the epilogue.

I've noticed some strange issues with the facial expressions that kind of take me out of the immersion throughout the game. Not only with the face expressions but with some of the poses / movements that our character makes, too.
An example for the illogical faces that sticks out in my mind is during one of the dreams with the Emperor late in the game, where
It's not just with my own character, but also the fact that our companions copy our character's facial expressions at times, and it looks very weird or inappropriate.

Case in point:
I agree it would be much preferable to have an expression on our character's face that expresses pleasure and delight during the kisses. That's what kisses normally would elicit, esp. if you're asking for them again and again. I want to add that I'd also like there to be more opportunities to show AA love in general. Having the option for my character to tell him she loves him, reinforce her devotion, tell him that she still cares for him as a person after ascension... just as examples. Since we can do the opposite to him and insult him, I think we should also be able to show our support and our love. Right now it feels a bit lacking to me in that way.

Now this would actually be a wonderful "parting gift" for the fans. A real gift, unlike the hurtful thing we got in the last patch which most people wanted to send back.
It really would be another beautiful full circle moment just like the touching ending scene where he holds out his hand to you. I am happy that we do have that.

I think this speaks to the loss of trust that many of us (myself included) suffered due to what happened in the last patch, unfortunately. Rather than excitement, it's sad that many of us now have to feel worried and anxious about anything new that might get added to the AA romance path, in case it tries to push that same unhappy sentiment again.

Haha, the evil Gale looks really funny! But, that scene you described really breaks the immersion. Still, you want to laugh while playing in situations that are funny in the story, not because your character has a completely inappropriate facial expression that makes a serious situation comical. And in some moments the opposite happens, for example, Astarion makes some funny sarcastic joke, I laugh heartily, and my Tav frowns his eyebrows, looks at Astarion judgmentally, as if he said something he shouldn't have said. The emotion, "Get that bore off the screen, Astarion don't look at her, it's not true!" is also not conducive to immersion and becomes a drop of tar in the honey barrel of Astarion's awesome humor. Of course, the problem with the fact that the character makes a crazy smile when not necessary, or frowns in really funny moments, is due to the fact that all players are different and differently perceive and roleplay these or those situations, but the facial expressions are the same for all. As a result, it turns out that the character as if not yours, you have to look from the outside, and not immersed in the story, the most unpleasant in this - when it feels as if they try to impose you an emotion or attitude to the situation. In other RPGs, where animated scenes and dialogs with companions are also present, we mostly see the interlocutor during the dialog, and I don't remember having problems with my character's emotions and reactions. Such frequent switching to a player-controlled character is more typical for interactive novels, but there the hero is not our alter ego, but a pre-defined character with his own appearance, character and reactions, and the game does not provide full immersion, but rather "story driving", and the pre-defined reactions look quite organic. Maybe the games of the future will add special keys to select the character's emotions, that would be a great idea to keep the immersion and not mix RPG with novella.


Yes! This is categorically lacking. Lots of opportunities to antagonize or insult Astarion, some lines just make me angry, I wish I could learn at least some basics of modding so I could erase them from my game and they wouldn't be an eyesore. Yes, you shouldn't be angry for something you never choose, but such an unfair imbalance, when there are opportunities for "it" but no opportunity to show your love, is certainly not the best approach to in-game romance. In the main story of the game, there are no such problems - there are plenty of options for lines and choices, and I have no problems with roleplaying in the main story. Some lines I may never choose either, but unlike some of the frankly annoying lines and actions in the romance line, I can't remember a single "bad" line from the main plot, simply because there are choices there, there's a balance, and what you don't like among those choices just slips by, doesn't make you focus on it, isn't memorable, and what you like and what you choose as a result is memorable. In Astarion romance, especially post-Ascension, unfortunately this imbalance in favor of negative options is all too apparent. And pleasure and delight during kissing could fix this, level this imbalance, make the game better, happier and warmer for the player. And of course, I would really like to have at least one good line to express my true attitude, my true feelings towards Astarion after Ascension.


It shouldn't be the norm. It can't be the norm and never has been, not in any RPG with romance options. It may be some variation, but the norm and the main line for romance has always been love. Love, beauty, loyalty, tenderness, happiness - these are what people usually associate romantic relationships with. It's what we expect from relationships in the game, what we feel, what we believe in. And when all of that is suddenly shattered, of course, a person can't believe anymore. Just like one can't trust a friend who has suddenly betrayed. But fortunately, the game can always be improved, erasing the bad and replacing it with good. Happy faces for our characters in kisses, I think this is exactly the step the studio could take towards the players, a step towards trust.

Many RPG games have romance, but there are no problems, resentments, frustrations, demands to fix or do better. When the romance is classic, bringing joy to the players, it usually is. Of course, it is possible not to make romance in the game at all - then there will be no problems with the requirements or wishes about it. But if someone is going to do something, they have to do it well, don't they?

That’s not okay.

A reminder of some of our forum rules:

- Remain constructive and respectful of others' opinions and gameplay styles.
- Remain respectful of game narratives and character preferences.
- Do not mock, torment, or berate individuals for any reason.

We all should all allow other fans to discuss elements of the game that interest them without interference or mockery. If you’re not interested in a discussion, please ignore and move on.


But, that said, the following is also a forum rule:
- Do not use Larian Studios Message Boards' features in a manner that adversely affects the availability of its resources to other users (e.g., excessive shouting [use of all caps] or flooding (continuous posting of repetitive text or topics).

A number of posts here seem to be covering much the same ground as has been covered multiple times before by the same people. Please remember this is a shared space, and while we can have our own side conversations those still do impinge on other forum members, so please do them the courtesy of not flooding the forum with long, repetitive posts.

Eh, I see zero issue with having diverging romance paths with different facial expressions for Astarion. Afraid, neutral, happy, seems fine. Like the thread this is based on, would feel most natural if tied to dialogue choices. If there has to be only one, neutral is the compromise, but I do think it would be better if there was a divergence.

I would prefer it to be one type of expression for all romances or multiple expressions for all romances. It is unnecassary to raise Astarions romance as special and above the others with needing special expression choices. Just give him something that would go with a romance.

I don't think it's a matter of being more special. Some other companions are significantly more special than Astarion already -- just in other ways. It's only natural that A will have other matters of priority than B, but that doesn't mean either got unjust preferential treatment. Unless the B is Minthara. I'm sorry for all the Minthara fans out there, that girl just got nothing.

I agree, I prefer happy facial expressions too, because it's a kiss, it's romance.
And if some people in this thread insist that only AA kisses have fear/hurt/horror in them, well, make that choice for all companions. Once again, I see this double standard, ironically enough.

I don't think there is a double standard, either. It's believeable for the darker Astarion pathing, but not so much for Wyll. There is one standard applied to all, and Astarion sits on top of the spectrum.

Either give multiple options to all or none. AA kisses should only have 1 option, and that option is the happy option. It's romance, not angst, you can disagree with me, I don't care.

As I've said, that option sounds like you're enforcing one way to play the romance. I don't see a reason to do so. There certainly is objectively no double standard, nor harm caused. It's rare to find darker romances in media. I would even say the draw for a significant amount of people is the "bad" ending. As such, many people can still enjoy a path you don't. It does not need to be sanitized.

Give me the same opportunity with all the companions in the game. If you want different "facial expression" sets, it's fair to do it for EVERYONE. Not just for Ascended Astarion. I'll say it again, but I think that's what you're accomplishing by trying to provoke people

I'm neither provoking people nor being unfair. You've not given an argument in either thread for why it is unfair. You continue to insist it is. That is detrimental to discourse. I really cannot see why or how someone could come to that conclusion. It's as if someone said "either give everyone the choice SH has OR remove the Shar path, I don't care about your opinion, having it in the game is inherently unfair". I could guess you think investing so much work into coding flags is unfair, but then again, why "unfair"? Some routes need more investment to work than others, but that doesn't mean they really have more going on -- provided other routes have their own strengths. Which, yes, they largely do.

There are some* who are seemingly projecting with their name-calling, lmao.
(Thank you community management for deleting that person's toxic comment!)