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Honestly this script is in the game since release, if the player does not agree to intimacy with AA, on eternal bond - they does not agree. If they agrees - they enjoys it.
So patch 6 was a mistake, which will be corrected in the 7 patch and hopefully no more ruin.

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

And here part too

Last edited by LiryFire; 11/08/24 09:38 AM.
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Originally Posted by Nyloth
You can. Just break up with him. Say no. That's exactly what you want to do. If you're saying that all these signs are "scary" and "offensive" to your character, then why does your character continue a relationship with him???? There's no logic to it. You can break up with him even 300 times before the epilogue, he has no power over it. So you're still left with the same reaction. Players who stay with him must be happy with their situation, otherwise they would have dumped him.

Except that’s not true at all. Narratively, there is nothing to suggest that doing so is safe for our character if we’ve already become his spawn. As soon as the tadpole is gone, he could hunt Tav down and use compulsions just like Cazador did to his spawn. And if the narrative doesn’t agree with me, then why the hell do we have an actual abuse dialogue chain where Tav can be intimidated into not breaking up with him?

Also, you’re saying some really problematic things here. Victims stay with abusers they’re afraid of all the time and this is without vampire mind control magic being in the mix. Like, sorry, but you’re kinda coming across here as victim blaming.

Edit: And more importantly, you’re distracting from the real issue here, which is the lack of character agency, which was the complaint by people who wanted to see their Tav happy during the kiss no? So then Larian needs to meet in the middle and solve this either by toning things down to neutral, or giving us a choice. Stop trying to discredit my game choices and my perception of the new facial expressions.

Last edited by Yharmeru; 11/08/24 09:51 AM.
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Originally Posted by Yharmeru
Except that’s not true at all. Narratively, there is nothing to suggest that doing so is safe for our character if we’ve already become his spawn. As soon as the tadpole is gone, he could hunt Tav down and use compulsions just like Cazador did to his spawn. And if the narrative doesn’t agree with me, then why the hell do we have an actual abuse dialogue chain where Tav can be intimidated into not breaking up with him?

Please give a clear example of what kind of abuse dialogue (quotations preferred) you are talking about? I think it would be helpful

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Originally Posted by Yharmeru
Except that’s not true at all. Narratively, there is nothing to suggest that doing so is safe for our character if we’ve already become his spawn. As soon as the tadpole is gone, he could hunt Tav down and use compulsions just like Cazador did to his spawn. And if the narrative doesn’t agree with me, then why the hell do we have an actual abuse dialogue chain where Tav can be intimidated into not breaking up with him?

Also, you’re saying some really problematic things here. Victims stay with abusers they’re afraid of all the time and this is without vampire mind control magic being in the mix. Like, sorry, but you’re kinda coming across here as victim blaming.

Edit: And more importantly, you’re distracting from the real issue here, which is the lack of character agency, which was the complaint by people who wanted to see their Tav happy during the kiss no? So then Larian needs to meet in the middle and solve this either by toning things down to neutral, or giving us a choice. Stop trying to discredit my game choices and my perception of the route.

But you already know from the epilogue that he doesn't do that if you break up with him. And that he responds quite appropriately in the end. So what you're saying is headcanon. An afterthought. His threats could be empty words, resentment, aggression. Nowhere in the game does it say otherwise.

Like you want to play the victim yourself, so yeah it's your fault. Where am I wrong? In this case there is no logic to his romance. Since you can dump him.

Personally in my game there was no violent dialogue, everyone was happy. And the new evil epilogue just reinforces that. All "violence" dialogues lead to a break up, which is what you should use before the epilogue. You can even stay human and dump him before the epilogue. He won't have any control.

You're bringing reality into this again, the game has nothing to do with that. It's a fantasy, you don't need to play out real life domestic drama with a drunk husband. There are also victims left for financial reasons, there are a lot of nuances in real life. But none of that in game.

So no, he won't go after your character. Not unless you want him to. Like in a fanfic.

edit: YOUR Choice was added to the game half a year after release. IT NEVER EXISTED.

Last edited by Nyloth; 11/08/24 09:55 AM.

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Originally Posted by LiryFire
Please give a clear example of what kind of abuse dialogue (quotations preferred) you are talking about? I think it would be helpful

I won’t because you know damn well what I’m referring to and I won’t buy into your disingenuous attempts to bait people into arguments.

The issue is some of us find the new facial expressions problematic and take away our agency, so we would like them adjusted or be provided an option to choose how our Tav feels about the situation so they can react accordingly.

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Originally Posted by Yharmeru
Originally Posted by LiryFire
Please give a clear example of what kind of abuse dialogue (quotations preferred) you are talking about? I think it would be helpful

I won’t because you know damn well what I’m referring to and I won’t buy into your disingenuous attempts to bait people into arguments.

The issue is some of us find the new facial expressions problematic and take away our agency, so we would like them adjusted or be provided an option to choose how our Tav feels about the situation so they can react accordingly.

>disingenuous attempts to bait people into arguments.
That's an accusation. Get ahold of yourself, please.

What I want to see are concrete examples of what you're talking about doesn't make me disingenuous or wanting an argument, (I generally like things to happen with examples and screenshots), but let's be honest it's a big argument and has been, for a very long time.
Maybe I'll see something new.
The other thing is that you don't want to, okay.

I'm sure you're also well aware that no one goes for a kiss when they're afraid or hateful.
You have the option and gency - to break up, or mod an abuse-victim story where that option-break up is erased.

Last edited by LiryFire; 11/08/24 10:05 AM.
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Originally Posted by LiryFire
You have the option and gency - to break up, or mod an abuse-victi story where that option-break up is erased.

Funny thing is, I don’t need to because that’s literally what happens in the epilogue. <3

Originally Posted by LiryFire
I'm sure you're also well aware that no one goes for a kiss when they're afraid or hateful.

Ok, but if this is literally the first time you kiss him and then you find yourself being shoved, grabbed, bitten without consent, etc., that might very well be something that you find triggering and don’t expect to see your character smiling playfully during.

Hence why, again, I am asking for the ability to express that in the dialogue through facial expressions that match those feelings because I find the old ones to be more fitting. I’m not saying we can’t have both. I just don’t expect MY character to be ok with what I see as abuse.

Last edited by Yharmeru; 11/08/24 10:16 AM.
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Originally Posted by Yharmeru
Originally Posted by HenryDoughnut
Ok guys let’s please not turn this into another thread getting into fights over astarion kisses. There have already been two threads locked because of that discussion getting out of hand, so people should just let it rest. It’s such a minor detail that is ultimately not a huge problem in the game, and people are getting far too up in arms over it. The kisses from now on will be happy and match up with all the other relationships having happy kiss scenes, because that’s the tone the game wants to convey here, end of story. If you want a story where your character is outright being abused and is upset about it, it is not to be found in this game.

But it’s not the tone the game wants to convey, that’s bullshit. At no point was the narrative “kinky bdsm uwu”.


FFS, this is the same route where Astarion will use every attempt to gaslight you into becoming a spawn, even going so far as to call you a humorless little wretch for trying to put up boundaries after ascension when he starts treating you like a pet.

We are given numerous options to express discomfort and hesitancy with going along with it. For instance, during the turning scene, initially saying no when he asks you to kneel will set your character’s facial expressions to uncomfortable / reluctant for the rest of the scene.

This is a route where the break up backpedal option literally has the description “abusively” written into the script. Our companions literally call out Astarion, With Wyll going so far as to say he’s a degenerate, while Halsin and Gale point out Tav is a slave. We can’t break up in the epilogue with him like you can with EVERY other character.

And sorry, the expressions were relatively neutral before. Tav looked rightly confused by Astarion’s sudden aggressiveness. He bites them without consent, he pushes them, he makes them kneel as a sign of humiliation. The old expressions had you react appropriately with surprise, confusion, or slight annoyance at being forced to do degrading things. This is a master and slave relationship based on everything the narrative has been building toward and once you’ve become a spawn, there is NOTHING to imply you will be safe for breaking up with him.

And finally, this is changing something that has been in the game for nearly half of its release. If this wasn’t the artistic vision, then it should have been updated months ago.

Tl;Dr: My character should not be smiling for things I’d be breaking up with my partner IRL for doing to me without my express consent. The fact that these facial expressions just decide my Tav is ok with it is gross and triggering.

LARIAN IS ROMANTICIZING ABUSE.
Some people will never see it, which I find deeply concerning, but at this point, the mods will lock the thread. It's getting out of hand and being derailed.

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Originally Posted by Silver/
Some people will never see it, which I find deeply concerning, but at this point, the mods will lock the thread. It's getting out of hand and being derailed.

Yup, I fully expect it will at this point. *sigh*

I just hope Larian is listening to our feedback because there are those of us who are really unhappy with these changes and want a way to keep things closer to what was being presented in patch 6.

My suggestion is to offer some dialogue during the first conversation you have the day after being turned where we can clearly communicate to Astarion that we’re feeling uncomfortable or maybe even a bit regretful over the night before. Maybe even provide an option to insist on our autonomy and desire to be seen as an equal. If you choose that dialogue, then you get the old expressions when he inevitably dismisses those concerns and pushes those boundaries during the kisses.

There, everybody wins.

O, and the kneel kiss and stuff should not be happening until after we become a spawn. He should stick with the default spawn kisses.

Last edited by Yharmeru; 11/08/24 10:41 AM.
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Originally Posted by Yharmeru
Originally Posted by LiryFire
You have the option and gency - to break up, or mod an abuse-victi story where that option-break up is erased.

Funny thing is, I don’t need to because that’s literally what happens in the epilogue. <3

In the epilogue, it goes.
"Truly, we are flourishing," "Yes we are a spectacle, after all," "No one dares touch us, my love".
The game, and the epilogue is how you play the game.

Originally Posted by Yharmeru
Originally Posted by LiryFire
I'm sure you're also well aware that no one goes for a kiss when they're afraid or hateful.

Ok, but if this is literally the first time you kiss him and then you find yourself being shoved, grabbed, bitten without consent, etc., that might very well be something that you find triggering and don’t expect to see your character smiling playfully during.

Hence why, again, I am asking for the ability to express that in the dialogue through facial expressions that match those feelings because I find the old ones to be more fitting. I’m not saying we can’t have both. I just don’t expect MY character to be ok with what I see as abuse.

If you consider something to be abuse, I think it's best to avoid it. People who don't think it's abuse, and felt Tav enjoying on their knees in the night scene from having their throat squeezed, seeing the fear opition didn't ask the question "why is that?", it was about enjoyment, it all with the consent, and didn't feel what they felt in patch 6: guilt, trigger, PTSD, shame.

The game did a very good job of giving multiple times to break up, to refuse, to keep the consensual romance, that's how it was on release, that's how it was originally written, as you can see above.

I hope Larian keeps the consistency and tone of the game that people paid for on release.

Last edited by LiryFire; 11/08/24 10:47 AM.
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My suggestion would be to let everyone experience and judge the new animations for themselves, not just the testers. It is something that is so dependent on personal opinion (looking away from the story and dialog). Let everyone voice their opinion not just a select few. I will also point to the fact that we who have left feedback since spring have done so in dedicated Astarion threads to show respect for other posters. I will not respond to any arguments so as to not derail the thread further.

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Regarding Astarion, this is one of those things where Larian shouldn't have listened to the handful of people who couldn't stop talking about it.

Some feedback is good. Some ruins the game by inserting personal kinks into the narrative. The story, including the cycle of abuse, should come first. Unfortunately...

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Originally Posted by JandK
Regarding Astarion, this is one of those things where Larian shouldn't have listened to the handful of people who couldn't stop talking about it.

Some feedback is good. Some ruins the game by inserting personal kinks into the narrative. The story, including the cycle of abuse, should come first. Unfortunately...

Cycle of abuse that never happened on game release, woah. The power of imagination is so strong. How good is that my emotional state is being protected by Marazhai from RT, hehe.


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Originally Posted by Nyloth
Originally Posted by JandK
Regarding Astarion, this is one of those things where Larian shouldn't have listened to the handful of people who couldn't stop talking about it.

Some feedback is good. Some ruins the game by inserting personal kinks into the narrative. The story, including the cycle of abuse, should come first. Unfortunately...

Cycle of abuse that never happened on game release, woah. The power of imagination is so strong. How good is that my emotional state is being protected by Marazhai from RT, hehe.

I'm sorry if you can't appreciate the power of the cycle of abuse story. Storytelling isn't for everyone.

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Originally Posted by JandK
Originally Posted by Nyloth
Originally Posted by JandK
Regarding Astarion, this is one of those things where Larian shouldn't have listened to the handful of people who couldn't stop talking about it.

Some feedback is good. Some ruins the game by inserting personal kinks into the narrative. The story, including the cycle of abuse, should come first. Unfortunately...

Cycle of abuse that never happened on game release, woah. The power of imagination is so strong. How good is that my emotional state is being protected by Marazhai from RT, hehe.

I'm sorry if you can't appreciate the power of the cycle of abuse story. Storytelling isn't for everyone.

I'm sorry you don't know the concept of role-playing. Games aren't for everyone. Read a book where you can't influence the story.


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Larian has opened the Pandora Box with patch 6. That doesn't surprise me.
Depictions of (s..) abuse, especially in the way it was done, always pose a risk. I will not go on further in this. I haven't seen the changes of the facial expressions yet (can't say whether they look well or bad), but it seems to look consensual, and that's the right thing. I can only suggest Larian to keep inconsistent non-con out of their game now respectively handle non-con or dub-con with a lot of care.

Originally Posted by ladyincognita
I don't want to get too deep into it here, but to me these new faces are incredibly triggering, as it feels too much like they are turning a serious situation into something simply kinky and making light of it, in a way. Seeing Tav be forced to react in those ways felt horrible to me. I had a similar kind of visceral reaction to seeing them as other players had to Patch 6.

Originally Posted by Yharmeru
Tl;Dr: My character should not be smiling for things I’d be breaking up with my partner IRL for doing to me without my express consent. The fact that these facial expressions just decide my Tav is ok with it is gross and triggering.

You're free to suggest whatever you desire, at the end, it is Larian's decision. But can you please refrain from trivializing real victims of PTSD episodes? You've already called for adding negative traits for Spawn Tav and a bad ending for the romance in the Discord suggestion channel several months ago. I would assume that the majority of players of a romance (it doesn't matter the companion) don't agree with changes in a negative way. Such subsequent changes always involve risk.

Originally Posted by Yharmeru
At no point was the narrative “kinky bdsm uwu”. I can’t choose how to react to the event because Larian is deciding that for me by forcing my Tav to enjoy being pushed around and made to do embarrassing things.

Originally Posted by JandK
Some feedback is good. Some ruins the game by inserting personal kinks into the narrative. The story, including the cycle of abuse, should come first. Unfortunately...

O thanks for kink shaming! (not)
I am grateful for the scenes (loviatar, kneeling, etc.) and would appreciate it, if we could refrain from posting these provocative posts in the patch 7 closed beta Feedback thread. Please let also players post about patch 7 beta issues, bugs, etc.

Beside of that, some of the new evil endings seem to look pretty good. One scene I've seen I love it - well done Larian! Thank you so much! If I get a chance to test the beta by myself, I'll come back to this thread. In any case, I am looking forward to this patch.


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Ok, something totally unrelated before this thread gets closed down and hopefully stirring the discussion away from the topic that is not to be named (I swear, I will call it the Voldemort topic from now on smile ) and towards the whole of Patch 7 again:

Can someone playing this patch say something about reactivity towards a certain Durge scene in act 3? And is poor Wyll now able to make his own decisions? And are there any other cool story stuff, you want to share?
I'm ok with getting spoiled, I'm just curious.


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In order to move the thread back on track - I request some spoiler-free feedback from the CB participants:

- Are new legendary actions significant enough in terms of raising the game difficulty?
- Are there any significant changes to Durge cutscenes/cinematics in the first act of the game?

I didn't get a chance to participate (yet..) and I try to figure out whether I should start a Durge PT now and jump into the patch mid-game or wait till September when I won't have that much time for playing. Thanks in advance!

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Originally Posted by Zayir
You're free to suggest whatever you desire, at the end, it is Larian's decision. But can you please refrain from trivializing real victims of PTSD episodes?

That's exactly what is being done to people who are triggered by the new animations, over and over again, on this very thread.

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Originally Posted by Zayir
O thanks for kink shaming! (not)

1. Is it a kink? yes
2. Was it inserted into the narrative? yes

Where's the shaming?

My position is that it's bad storytelling. Good storytelling would showcase the obvious cycle of abuse from vampire master to vampire master. Suggesting that the cycle of abuse can't be talked about in relation to this in the game is simply a way of trying to hamstring opposing opinions.

"Why don't you like it? For this reason? Oh, but you can't talk about that reason."

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