Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback I dream of smiling at my beloved (a request for a happy face for Tav in Ascended Astarion's kisses).

Please, let's not go down that road again. You are putting words and opinions on others that they do not have. By all means say what YOU think, but do not presume to know what I or anyone else here thinks.


True, thank you Every. Neutral expressions by the way, before someone jumps on me again.

Yeah! I still prefer the happy/playful ones, it's romance after all :3 and the others have exactly those faces in their kisses ^^ Anyway, we'll see it in patch 7

Do I understand correctly that you want to introduce abusive behavior into the AA route by way of a Tava-masochist who, given the opportunity to leave, chooses not to? I.e. even when you have a choice, you choose suffering. Okay. But AA still didn't show sadism towards Tav until patch 6, AA only did what they wanted him to do. And when events didn't unfold the way he wanted them to, he didn't do anything to cause fear. I still don't see the logic or qualitatively make sense. There's still the kneeling scene on the first night after the ascension, you can't dismiss it. You can interpret it as sex manipulation if you want, but AA was never sadistic towards Tav. Therefore, the faces of fear make no sense and never have. Just realize. You can't put fear into the route without direct consistency.

If Tav has a satisfied face during the kiss, you could interpret that AA manipulated Tav - it would make more sense than fear. That would be your tragic experience playing the AA route.

But you can't ask for AA to be made a sadist this much time after the game's release because he canonically didn't show sadism towards Tav.

All requests to present any arguments were simply ignored.

I don't really agree it's black/white, except for the fact that Larian downplayed the realistic consequences of releasing 7000 spawn into the world. The original "good" route of Astarion people speculated from datamining fit this pattern more: at some point, he was supposed to be curable, with Ethel's wand somehow involved in the plot. They abandoned this idea for the more dubious spawn route, but then backtracked again... I don't hate it, but I still think a more clear good route and a more fleshed out evil route would have been better.

I do see tragic romance in both paths, though I think the AA route is implied to have more of it after the "curtain" closes -- depending on the choices you make, of course. We've already disagreed on what we see as tragic in the prior thread. I don't expect this to convince you, but I really do see it in the AA route the way you see it in the spawn route, if that makes sense.

I will only add one thing: tragedy is not the absence of joy or decadence in a story, nor is it simply abuse or a bad ending. It's also about the protagonists causing their own downfall. Hence, spawn Tav trapping themselves in a relationship they only thought they would want is inherently tragic to me, and very much a path in this game. You cannot ever fully leave as a spawn, this is the cage. The only real divorce is death in that world.

No, and I've replied at length before what I do expect. Kindly backtrack in the thread and read that reply. I do not want to be bonked by the mods for repeating myself overly. I will also not engage in the debate if tragic romance is inherently sado-masochistic for the same reason.

Hi folks, as I said above …


I’m seeing a few people here saying the same things they’ve already said in other threads. And I would encourage everyone to recognise that sometimes we just need to agree to disagree, and not keep posting just because someone still doesn’t agree with their position. Disagreement is fine, and in itself is not provocation, or shouldn’t be if we are remaining respectful and constructive in line with forum rules.

It is also absolutely fine to express an opinion on one thing without needing to have thought about other elements of the game. We should be here having friendly chats, and there is no onerous requirement of balance before we’re allowed to express our views.

I am about to hand out a warning to a second forum member for behaviour in this thread. Please let’s not have another. If you have posted in this thread already, please stop and think before doing so again, and make sure you are certain you are adding something new to the discussion and are engaging constructively and respectfully with people with different views.

I agree the players didn't even see the changes.
I want to point out that fear is irrelevant, there is a breakup option, a "neutral faces" option not just for AA, with the only evil male for romance already written quite biased, talking about Tav's lines compared to the only evil female. Then for all characters to play different emotions and personalities.

Another two forum members are now going to get warnings based on posts while and since posting my above warning. Come on, folks!

I’m going to choose to believe that people simply haven’t seen the moderator guidance I’ve issued here, so am going to lock this thread until tomorrow to allow everyone to catch up, before more posters fall foul of the rules.

Some of us AA fans liked the old expressions TYVM and I will continue to voice my complaint if they are changed.

Yes, we know what you're calling for on Reddit.

Your posts in the thread Patch 7 Closed Beta Feedback contained clear violations of the forum rules, namely:

«Remain respectful of game narratives and character preferences.

Do not attempt to spread or intentionally share misinformation and falsehoods.

Do not use Larian Studios Message Boards' features in a manner that adversely affects the availability of its resources to other users (e.g., excessive shouting [use of all caps]

While we are aware that sometimes users might want to have these discussions on reference to the games, please try to keep conversations about heavier topics (abuse, sexual assault, etc) within spoilered text with an appropriate warning, so other users can choose if they want to engage.

Do not purposefully derail conversation or antagonise community members».

It is certainly none of my business to evaluate this, but nevertheless, I will ask you to refrain from such things in this thread so as not to contribute to its closure.

Also, according to the forum rules: "It's everyone's responsibility to keep this a safe and positive community. This space is for everyone regardless of gender, gender identity/expression, sexuality, religion, race, ethnicity, or nationality. Offensive content or harassment on this basis, either personal or generalized, will not be tolerated. Be respectful of your fellow forum members". So I will also ask you not to insult members of the BDSM community the way you did in that thread. The kissing scenes with happy facial expressions are in fact consensual D/s scenes, and therefore the description of these scenes as a


Unacceptable and offensive.

I was very happy to see in the feedback about the upcoming patch 7 that our requests were heard! Dear Larian, thank you for that! What you are doing now is wonderful, it makes people happy, thank you for choosing to keep the game happy and playable for all players! All players are entitled to love and joy on their romance path, and you have proven that you care, that you hear your players and make the game so much better as a result! I look forward to the new patch and dream of seeing the facial expressions in my game that only testers are seeing now so far. This is the best choice and the best option. Thank you!!! You've regained my trust and I will happily buy your next game knowing that everything will be fine now! <3

I'm sure most of us who love Astarion, help him Ascend and be truly free, strong and live life to the fullest, are also happy to know that we will now have the opportunity for happiness, joy and expressing our love on our romantic path! Let's thank Larian for this gift! If any of you would like to express your gratitude to the studio for this, now is the time to do so!

Friendly, short mention: there is an objectively severe violation of basic BDSM etiquette in AA scenes, which is what some people are uncomfortable with, though they don't know how to put it into words.

(Addition: "consent" as a legal term ≠ "consent" in BDSM etiquette. It's consent legally + additional standards, hence: "safe, sane, and consensual". The law does not care about safe or sane until you kill someone).

Faerun isn't a setting that has a 1:1 understanding of BDSM, however. Real life standards for acceptable behavior and what some people do in fiction, such as Balder's Gate and yes, even 50 shades of grey, rarely end up comparable. If you met someone with as lousy an etiquette as Astarion in rl, you should run for the hills. If he's found in a book set in modernity, you should blame the author's understanding of the subject. If set in ancient times, it becomes more complicated.

The current angle of the romance will no doubt be immensely upsetting for a portion of people to play who are not into unnegtioated D/s. Yes, they may ask for the removal of what upsets them. It's Larian who will have to set the balance -- or alienate that segment of people otherwise interested in the romance by choice.

There is an objective basis for complaint: the content of the game does not measure up to modern understanding of safe, sane and consensual. There is no negotiation of kink. As said, it's also a fantasy setting, so discrepancies in this regard are "normal" in the sense of "average". It's not usually worth critiquing, unless it gives a lot of people a woefully wrong perspective on BDSM. I don't think many people are using Balder's Gate 3 to get into the scene, so I'll personally let it slide, but I also doubt anyone is going to laud the romance for being a realistic, *modern* portrayal. It's a complicated one too, as it *doesn't* just incorporate "usual" BDSM, but lifestyle D/s.

Crash course: "Classic" BDSM functions in clearly negotiated scenes, while lifestyle D/s is a dynamic that becomes the "default" for how two individuals interact. It's not necessarily even sexual.

ATM, the only "negotiation" we have with Astarion is breaking up or killing him. Naturally, this is not what should be done between two real people. Lifestyle D/s needs immense dedication and communication to be healthy. It's not something you should ever jump into the way Tav/Durge does with Astarion. Consent is pre-negotiated. "Consent" in the way of "you can break up if you don't like it", would be seen as severely abusive behavior from a partner irl, on par with coercion. In game, there are writing limitations to explain all that, but please understand that each side has a basis to be rightfully upset and rightfully blasé.

Wow.

REALLY? How heartbreaking. A guide on how to pretend to be a victim and to fool Larian? Just to keep the non-con, which harmed so many people and Larian will change for patch 7 now, in the game? Really sad.

To each their own. But thank you, for exposing yourself. In this world, nothing really surprises me anymore... at least it explains to me the way it was written in the beta thread.

Oh yes darling... I will also help him to dominate the world as king at my side. I'm still hoping for "In our Name" when I/we become the Absolute.

I can't tell you how bad these facial expressions are/were for an evil Dark Urge. You only have 2 possible romances that go with you until the end of the world and then I have to watch my character pretend to be afraid of him. (It would be a different discussion to what extent AA would even be able to control the Durge without being killed immediately, to what extent Bhaal likes it when a half-finished vampire controls his Chosen and how weak Bhaal and his spawns would look as a result... a disaster in terms of the story). Anyone who is of Bhaal's blood will never look like that. I hated that the story of the Dark Urge was completely neglected in that context. Now I'm a very happy Durgie again.

Looking forward to see (what sounds like) playful, consenting expressions that fits with a healthy D/S relationship.

Love and happiness over tragedy and hate every time. <3

I'm sending it here too.

Some fans bring too much, unbelievably over-the-top, problematic reality into vampire romance. (reality works very poorly with all of Astarion)

In the scenario of the night with the Ascended Astarion, when Tav agrees to an eternal bond, agrees to kneel, and chooses to "rough" - the Player that is them, the character enjoys. It's felt by the whole atmosphere.

When an already consensual thing, with a mood of enjoyment starts to taste the opposite of the emotions experienced - it's not a good idea for a romance.

I'm convinced it's better to leave the intimate scenes, kissing Astarion alone, happy and consensual. Except for patch 6 in the change for February 14, the game has always done this and will continue in patch 7 - with the happily set emotion.

I guess it's better to ask for discomfort, abusive behavior, rape, dead dove, "dirty realism", some completely different scenes to play the character-victim, with conversations not connecting them to the already with thing that was with written with enjoyment and fun.

As far as people actively triggered by the scenes go, I think a better compromise would be to make the D/s angle optional as far as possible. To me, the subtext lifestyle D/s angle was always exceptionally plain and obvious, but I am not the default viewer. Other scenes I find acceptable for flavour, but not anywhere as necessary as the bug fixing I have finally been promised.

Edit: a new perspective on the patch 7 scenes claims they're mixed, I'm currently not sure what path Larian has taken. I'll see when I have time again next summer. I have a little bit in spring, but not enough for a relaxed full play through. Would prefer playing something else.

This is not okay. You are linking directly to someone's account on another website for the purpose of ganging up on them there and discrediting them for wanting to make their feedback heard in a respectful way. Considering the comment you linked to warns of bullying like this, it's ironic and sad.

I too hold the not-so-popular view that D/S could be made optional.
However, if it's left the way it is, the last thing I want to see is the horror of Patch 6 and scared faces
Also, the kissing mod that was posted in various Astarion threads was a great solution for me game. That way, I can click on other companions' kisses without clicking on the ones that introduce the D/S dynamic (AA's own kisses), and click on them when I'm in the mood.

Same goes for those who conversely liked the story and atmosphere of Patch 6. I think there will be a mod that can save those faces and you can play with them in the same way I did.


I do think the "happy stories" sell better. Happy stories are liked by most people. That's why there was a request for happy faces when kissing. It's romance, not tragedy. Saying that Patch 6 is the best and only solution is not true. Maybe for you, but not for the majority.
When you go to the store and stand in front of a rack of apples with lemons, most will take the sweet apples, not аll, but most.
Characters are the face of the game. They are the merchandise. Making an apple a lemon is a questionable decision.You might argue, but stories of suffering and tragedy sell fewer copies than the latest tabloid novel where everyone is happy.
I'm certainly not the majority, but I'm one of those who also want to smile at my romantic interest, whether it's Astarion, or the dark Justiciar Shadowheart, or Mintara, or any of the others.

Why is it necessary to engage people to say stuff like, they got triggered by the new consensual facial expressions (and guessing, they are not even beta tester, because the kiss scenes are leaked), which are not even released? They clearly like non-con dead dove (they are saying this explicit, but just not in the suggestion channels to Larian!), so, why don't you just say straight: "Larian, we like non-con dead dove, dub-con, etc. etc., and would like to see it?" It's not fair to engage people to trivialize real victims of PTSDs or to do it by themselves. Do you even know what PTSD is.. So if you are into dead dove and non-con, don't be afraid and tell Larian straight, there is nothing wrong about it. It is Larian's decision to add and keep non-con or not.