Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Disappointed in Larian

Well it would be blatantly false to say that BG3 is "done". Larian still has additional patches planned that in their own words will continue to bring improvements, bug fixes, and quality of life features alongside things like photo mode and crossplay. There hasn't been any statement claiming that Patch 7 is the last time any changes will be made to dialogue or cinematics, so there's always the possibility that more things people want can be added to the game. All we know for certain is we aren't getting brand new stories in either dlc or sequels.

I can't speak for anybody but myself, but the only thing I have been pushing for are additional changes similar to the ones we have been getting for months. I never anticipated getting a complete remake of the game because that's an absurd request to make to the developers. Sure, I'm disappointed we're not getting more from Larian, and I heavily disagree with their decision since I do not in fact think it's in their best interest as they claim it is, but that's a separate issue entirely. I'm just trying to bring awareness to things that large portions of the community desperately still want to see before the final patches come out, but this whole thread just keeps devloving into back and forth unconstructive negativity.

I hope that we get some kind of patch that wholly focuses on finishing and fleshing out exisiting companions that have been neglected and their quests. That would be a dream patch personally. I think it is possible that they could do that, although I would not hope too much. Maybe I'm being too optimistic.

Well... Can you blame it? The thread started with non-constructive negativity.

Literally, your original post was just you venting at how you disliked Larian's decision.

Unlike other, more constructive threads that focused on specific areas that people would like to be addressed. Heck, there's very prominent threads dedicated to things people would like in regards to Minthara, Astarion and Karlach.

This thread started with nothing constructive and thus remained non-constructive.

If your goal is to "Bring awareness to things that large portions of the community desperately still want to see" then... Where are those things? Where in your original post did you highlight those things that "Large portions of the community" want? Where did you create a discussion besides "Larian bad. Me no likey. Also, don't turn this into a Larian hate thread because I've already done that with the first post"

Like, if someone truly was wanting to be constructive and help the game be the best it can be... Then they'd make a thread that's about discussing what people would like to see in the remaining patches the game is receiving. Not whine about Larian's decision to move on (Eventually, after they've finished their last few patches)

You brought up how people respond to "Similar" threads on Reddit with negativity... But if those discussions took the same direction of simply whining about Larian making a decision instead of providing constructive feedback about areas of the game that should receive updates with the remaining patches, then it's honestly not surprising.

Perhaps this was all a misunderstanding and your original post was simply born out of frustration and you really would like to have a proper discussion. If so, I'd recommend you create a new thread where the original post is focused on being constructive, highlighting aspects that should be addressed in the remaining patches the game will be receiving. Don't bring into it Larian's decision to move on or how you feel about the decision, simply create a place where people share thoughts on how Larian can make the game the best it can be. That way the entire thread can be focused not on Larian's decision, not on people's views of Larian's decision, but entirely about things Larian can (And hopefully will) do to improve the game.

Hopefully patch 7 isn’t the last of the post launch support. I think hoping for major changes is not realistic but there are likely going to be many bugs remaining after patch 7. It would be nice if most of these could gradually be addressed as well.

Okay, but the fact that Larian no longer has the rights to the IP and has decided to move on from the game is entirely relevant to what areas can be changed. There have been specific criticisms and specific desires expressed in this thread.

I don't see the point of mocking the OP. It's not "Larian is bad. Me no likey." It's "I disagree with Larian's decision to move on from the game at this time because I think the game needs improvement, but I love and am very passionate about the game they created so please don't turn this into a Larian hate thread. Be constructive with your criticism."

The point for me is that the issues I have with the game can be addressed in a way Larian has done with their games in the past, but not if they have decided against it and are no longer legally able to do so. Threads only discussing what people would like to see without acknowledging the fact that it's not currently possible for Larian to address these things have become moot in a sense.

And while I have seen some harsh criticism of Larian here, it's nothing compared to the vitriol thrown their way in some of the threads you referenced. No one here is accusing the Larian devs of being mentally ill and calling for them to be fired because they dislike a story decision, for example.

And I expect Larian to continue working on functionally broken areas of the game as they said they would. But they've explicitly stated that after this patch and the photo mode they plan to implement in the future they are focusing on bug fixes. There will be no new substantial content.

As I understand it this isn't currently possible as they no longer hold the rights to the companions. And they've said they're finished with narrative content. They would have to revisit their dealings with wotc if they were to implement changes like this and they've been clear they have no plans to do so now or in the future. They would have to change their minds about moving on from the game to enact any real narrative, dialogue, or quest changes.

That's why the disappointment in their decision to leave the game behind for good is a central topic of the thread.

Could you point me towards where you’ve seen this explicit confirmation that there won’t be dialogue/narrative changes in any way beyond Patch 7? So far as I can tell, their explanations on the situation have been pretty vague, and they’ve only really said was “no new story content for the characters” which I just interpreted to once again be referring to the fact that we won’t be getting any dlc.

"Wanting Larian to go back on their decision" in no way equates to making them "slaves to BG3." Surely you can see how this is extremely hyperbolic and a serious leap.

And no one said they expect or want Larian to work on "that game and that game alone" at the expense of other games. In point of fact people have said they would be fine with Larian stepping away from BG3 for now and returning to it in the future when they're no longer burnt out from it.

My personal desire is for them to eventually release a definitive edition that improves upon the third act of the game to a similar scale as they have with their past games. And although they've done so for free in the past I'd have no problem paying for it.

I feel the need to defend myself here, as I don’t really agree with your assessment of what I personally have been saying in this thread which I created. I openly expressed disappointment in Larian’s announcement of no new content, but was in no way engaging in non-constructive negativity, as you have been throughout the whole thread towards myself, other posters, and the developers. Even in my original post I mentioned what I still wanted to see (fixes for the companions), yet you’ve reacted in much the same way as the negative redditors I mentioned, blowing up my words as if I was asking for Larian to remake the entire game from scratch and give it to me free of charge.

All I’ve ever been saying here is that I find it upsetting that there were just a few more things Larian could have done to improve the game, discussed what those were, and wondered why they would suddenly decide they didn’t want to pursue more updates after being so committed to making said updates in the past.

Sure. It was said by Swen in an interview and then reiterated in a community update:

"Being given the chance to develop a game set in the Dungeons & Dragons universe has been a dream come true for all of us. But as Swen recently confirmed, we won't be introducing any major new narrative content to the story of Baldur's Gate 3 or its origin characters and companions"

https://baldursgate3.game/news/community-update-26-evil-endings-new-beginnings_117

If they hadn't handed over the rights to the companions this statement wouldn't necessarily rule out some minor dialogue changes, but I think the fact that the only companion dialogue changes they've confirmed for patch 7 is dialogue they recorded before the decision to hand over the characters to wotc is a sign this won't be happening. The reactivity for the durge scene they mentioned was said to be via narrator lines as well.

Also, shortly after Swen announced they were moving on from BG3 Astarion's main writer announced that he would no longer be working with Larian. Another indication that they're done with new dialogue imo.

I think adding an option to allow Wyll to make his major act 3 decision for himself, with a persuasion roll for the opposite choice as there is with other companions' decisions would be doable though.

Edit: As it wouldn't require new dialogue or any story change for Wyll. Just a dialogue option change the for the player.

Except this is irrelevant to actually providing constructive feedback.

This thread is based entirely on the non-constructive notion of simply trying to make Larian go back on their decision. Under the guise of "It's in their best interests (To cater specifically to me and my desires)"

There was little to do with actual tangible feedback (This came later, but is mired in the overall thread theme of "I dislike Larian's decision" and the entire discussion about Larians decision)


No, it is "Larian is bad. Me no likey"

It literally started as a Larian hate thread. The original post literally just hated on Larian for making a decision. The same poster has gone on to say that they dislike other Larian games and won't buy new Larian games.


Except Larian isn't completely finished with the game. There's currently a Patch 7 being worked on (With a thread for feedback) and they're referencing future patches.

So there's still things they can and will be doing. Yet none of this thread is talking about what people would like to see in these patches. Instead it's all "Please Larian, go back on your decision!" which is completely non-constructive.


It exactly equates.

Larian made the decision because THEY NO LONGER WISH TO WORK ON THE GAME.

Wanting Larian to go back on their decision and work on a game they DO NOT WISH TO WORK ON would make them slaves to it. Especially if people want them to continue doing free patches for it. Since this is them being OBLIGATED to work on the game despite what their lack of motivation (In terms of both passion and monetization) which is slavery.


The OP did. They mentioned that they don't care about any other Larian titles and they only wish to see more BG3.

Also, the very nature of going back to make more major content for BG3 would be at the expense of their other titles, the ones they are moving on from BG3 to develop.


Except you have. Read your original post. Most of it is simply griping about Larian's decision. This is entirely negative and non-constructive.

Also throughout the thread you've gone on about "How to change Larian's decision" which is again, non-constructive.

Very little of what you've done in the thread, has been about your so called goal to improve the game - Very little in the way of actual suggestions of what should be worked on in the last few patches.


You mentioned 1 thing, which is more dialogue and scenes for several companions. A single piece of constructive feedback. Amid a giant non-constructive complaint about their decision.

I have not "Blown up your words" and I have not implied you wanted "Larian to remake the entire game from scratch". I've looked at your words exactly (Other people have implied such things - Mostly in response to Mels bringing up the major story and character writing flops)

Heck, I even gave you the benefit of the doubt and figured you may have simply been upset when you wrote the original post, hence it's lack of constructivity. Yet, instead of taking on board this, you instead act as if I'm attacking you or providing vitriol...


No, all you've been saying here, is that you dislike Larian's decision and want to find a way to make them reverse their decision.

Very little of what you've done here has been a discussion on what things Larian could (And still can) do to improve the game. Which is the point I raised and why I suggested a new thread that is detached from discussing Larian's decision, to ensure it is entirely focused on providing constructive feedback for Larian to utilize in their remaining patches.

Hence why there's so much "Off-topic" discussions around game development and Larian's decision - Because not only is your original post mostly about such things, but continued posts have been about the same topic. Since the thread itself (The title and original post) are so far removed from an actual discussion about what Larian can do to improve the game with constructive feedback.

Okay, folks let’s take the heat down.

This thread was not started to hate on Larian, and in fact the OP explicitly requested in the first post that they hoped that was not what this thread would devolve into.

They expressed their strong disappointment that BG3 wouldn’t have further major development, and they were fully entitled to do so. Just as others of us are entitled to say that we are okay with that decision for whatever reason.

But I do agree that if folk want to get into detailed discussion of particular elements of the game, they’re probably better off starting or continuing a thread specifically on that topic.

And would also suggest that most discussions gets to a point where everything constructive to be said has been said, and the best thing to do is to move on elsewhere and talk about something else. I confess I haven’t been following this thread, and won’t go back past the most recent posts unless I get post reports, but often a thread getting bad-tempered like this is a a sign that it’s got to that point.

I found the following article quite thought-provoking. (It's long). It describes the genesis of the dark urge story-arc, and highlights Larian's style of story development. There were different beginnings of the DU story. The one that is in the game was only begun to be written after EA was released.
There are several other instances of existing storylines, (proven or not) that had impoortant changes after EA. It seems to be Larian's style.
Another policy from the studio is to fully work out choices that will maybe never be explored by players (or only by a a handful)

So what with the upcoming games ? Will they keep this way of working, or start with a solid storybook and not deviate (too far) from it to keep a healthy logical story from start to end. And also put less focus on exotic deviations to solidify the main line ?

Or will they continue the somewhat chaotic changes "on the way" -- which actually may be the reason why the product is loved so much by players -- but which leaves a somewhat bitter taste afterwards because so many things "don't add up".

I'm divided into deciding what would be best. I liked BG3 so much. 1500+ hrs now, but I'm also annoyed by the plotholes. Knowing that it is not even possible to reconstruct a complete and consistent storyline.

https://www.eurogamer.net/the-making-of-the-dark-urge-in-baldurs-gate-3

Thank you for the article, Ido, it has been very interesting. It also explained to me why I really didn't vibe with the Dark Urge, I never even got to act 2 with it because I was so turned off by the splatter happy fun, that is never really disturbing and never taken completely seriously. It's horror for people who don't like horror.

Much like Welch, I don't like gore, not at all, but I do like horror and I think that gore can have it's place when used with purpose. For example, I love Ketheric's introduction scene (even though it makes me uncomfortable) especially when Minthara is a part of it, and I adore the writing and performance of Minthara when your free her from her mind's prison or when she tells you about her experiences at Moonrise. The character's terror is palpable in her dialogue. I think I would have enjoyed the Dark Urge if it was more like Minthara's experience.

By contrast I do really enjoy Astarion, Gale and Shadowheart's (which I recently started) origins, which take their dark elements more seriously. I especially liked how they used Astarion as a devil-on-your-shoulder for Gale because Astarion's attempts at manipulation are generally contrasted with the narration telling you what you should do. The narration tells you Mystra wouldn't want you to use tadpoles, Astarion offers to take the first shrimp, enticing you to sin along. Mystra commands your sacrifice, Astarion gives you a passionate little speech about free will (unfortunately bugged atm, please patch 7!) and then comes along with his idea to take over the cult, controlling the cult and possibly offering you a lifeline. Usually Astarion's attempts at manipulation are pretty mild and a bit lame, but when they hit a vulnerable target, the muddled mess of duty, personal will and love becomes a dark concoction that I found very satisfying.

Thank you. I understand your point about a thread going nowhere after a certain point, but I think there is still discussion going on and if you read back through the thread you'll see it's just one person derailing the conversation by mocking the OP and complaining about the thread existing in the first place, and insisting nothing constructive is being said.

Can I encourage you (and anyone else) to use the post report function or to PM me if you wish to discuss or request moderation interventions? It would derail threads to discuss them publicly, and while I did happen to spot this reply, in general there's a high likelihood I won't see posts in specific topics.

But while I'm posting anyway, I will note that while I often don't call out specific individuals when I intervene publicly in threads, everyone is welcome to consider whether my guidance is relevant to their behaviour and if it's not then they can safely conclude it wasn't directed at them. And I have no issue with people continuing to post in this thread if they do have something constructive to add and are happy to discuss in a friendly and respectful manner. I only ask that people take a moment to stop and think.

Yes, of course. I understand.

I want to say that while I'm not sure exactly where the discussion can go from here, this is the only active thread here discussing Larian's decision to cease working on the game beyond some features and bug fixes after patch 7. I think many of the criticisms and suggestions made regarding changes outside of those things are futile without that context, and without the context that they legally can't do much beyond that because they're no longer contracted with wotc.

So I think it's good to have an active thread discussing the desire to see them revisit that decision in the future, along with reasons why that desire is there through a critical lens.

For (a commonly mentioned) example advertising the upper city as an explorable area two weeks before release, whether it was meant to be there for all of act 3 or only the original cut epilogue, was at best unintentionally misleading players. It was something players were told would be in the game shortly before they were able to play it, only for it not to be there. I would argue it's why quests and interactions in the city feel disjointed, and I think it's incumbent upon them as a company to include what they said would be in their product. But instead they've decided to leave that promise permanently unfulfilled because they're so eager to move on to future projects and leave BG3 behind for good. They've cut off their own ability to make the product what they said it would be upon release and I think that's a decision worthy of harsh criticism.

This is just one example and while I don't think substantial changes like it need to be worked on right now or in the very near future, it's something they should be open to setting right by revisiting the contract with wotc at some point. If they would express any openness to the possibility of doing that I would be happy.