Originally Posted by Flooter
Originally Posted by Sini
I hope Mephistopheles has enough room for the souls that will check in with Patch 7.
I suppose damning people to hell is one way of keeping the conversation from going in circles, but I’d rather a perfectly spherical thread than one with this kind of invective.

There’s a good chance I just misunderstood your joke, but we had a nice “agree to disagree” vibe going and I fear this could threaten that. Please play nicer.

I understand it the way, that Sini was mentioning the new, great evil endings, as Swen and the announcement have mentioned, are coming in Patch 7 (and seems they have seen them and found them impressive), believing a lot of people will go for an evil route. Is that an invective?

Edit: Okay, it's cleared up already smile

Originally Posted by Elly
Originally Posted by Marielle
Originally Posted by Elly
My point is that the situation Tav finds themselves in with Haarlep (his ultimatum) can be triggering, and that potentially upsetting content shouldn't have to be cut completely from the game, especially if it's avoidable - like Haarlep is, and like optional Patch 6 faces in the kisses would be.

Unlike the kissing scene in Patch 6, the Haarlep scene did not receive the same number of complaints. Players in general perceived it relatively positively. And since the Haarlep scene has been in the game for a very long time, we can assume that this scene was not perceived as traumatizing by the audience, including the players who tried it for the test, unlike the large number of complaints and letters that Larian received after the “Valentine's Day” update. And of course, in my opinion, if this scene gathered a certain amount of complaints, like the patch 6 kisses, it too should have been changed or removed from the game.

That's not the point I'm trying to make. I don't think either Haarlep or the original kisses should be removed. Not everything that has the potential to upset someone should be completely removed from art.

I myself don't count an animated scene of sexual violence, which uses vanilla BDSM elements, released for Valentine's day, repeatable for players for letting their character kiss their LI, as art. But we will agree to disagree on that and that everyone has their own opinion and definition of art.
In my opinion the added kisses around the Valentine's day were fanservice meant to be *spicy* and enjoyable for all the D/s, kink and BDSM lovers (those who enjoy the consensual and sensual kneeling scene and throat grabbing in his romance), which just went horribly wrong with a misunderstanding of D/s dynamics somewhere in the team, who was not well versed in this topic and simply thought, that choosen fearful and sad face would be the right thing for D/s. The fact, that Larian posted the exact kneeling scene right for Valentine's day to promote their "love is in the air" patch and their game is a strong evidence - including the overall reactions (*hot* and *spicy*) on that little gif. I still doubt and hope not, that Larian intentionally wanted to present and promote their big patch with a depiction of an SA scene (or "circle of abuse"-scene) and I assume they are simply improving and correcting this scene (it's a "kiss" for a romance after all!) in their next patch now among other animations.

It's understandable, that you want the non-consensual scene stay like this in the game for your own roleplay. There are but also people who like this repeatable depiction of SA (non-consensual) from patch 6 to be removed from the entire game as well, and this for several and different reasons, we discussed the last months. A consensual D/s scene completely similiar to a scene of SA - separated from each other only by an answer and a facial expression, would further harm the kink and BDSM community, which is already often misunderstood and condemned by people, by making "abuse" and "kink" or"D/s dynamics" appear literally "interchangeable." I ask Larian not to create or keep a second scene in the game that contains the exact same BDSM / D/s elements to depict any kind of "circle of abuse"-idea respectively sexual violence. When people are already mistaking and condemning consensual D/s dynamics (Tav enjoying BDSM elements in Patch 7) as "romantizing abuse", or similiar things, where else will this lead? I find this very concerning and hurtful.

Lack of understanding, kinkshaming and insults towards the kink and BDSM community and people who enjoy consensual D/s dynamics have unfortunately increased significantly due to Patch 6 (D/s elements combined with non-consensual Tav). There is absolutely no need to use those elements against us. If desired (by Larian), a "circle of abuse" could be shown on another way or a completely another animation or occasion, which would make more sense than Tav backkissing Astarion in a kneeling scene with a smirk/smile on his face (yes, a smile! in patch 6 scene), especially, as the kiss animations overall makes not a lot of sense for a realistic depiction of abuse, because it is sexualized.

Different Feedback and suggestions were given here as well as in the Discord channel by a lot of people already, including the OP. As far as I know, Larian viewed all of them. Patch 7 will change and improve the facial expressions and throw this depiction of SV out of their game and out of the D/s dynamics - for what a lot of people are grateful and now looking forward to the patch to be released to finally enjoy to play again.

"I would, thank God, watch the universe perish without shedding a tear."