Originally Posted by Elly
That's not the point I'm trying to make. I don't think either Haarlep or the original kisses should be removed. Not everything that has the potential to upset someone should be completely removed from art.
The kisses the way they are have been in the game for half of its release now. Many players including myself have gotten used to them and incorporated them into our stories. Instead of censoring them completely, I think the best solution would be making Tav's expressions optional. That way, players who do not want to see them in their games could avoid them without having to drop the romance path altogether, and players who did like them the way they have been for the last six months wouldn't have to lose their stories to a new narrative either.

Yes, unfortunately you and I misunderstood each other a bit. I don't mean removing Haarlep or generally removing any scenes that might upset someone. I don't mean scenes that can cause upset, but specifically content that requires a specific warning. There was no such content in BG3 before patch 6, and there is no other scene in the game now that can be compared to that. I'll try to make a clearer comparison to scenes from other games that do contain content similar to patch 6's kissing content, and accordingly, those games contain a special warning.

*** WARNING: sensitive content (may contain a discussion of violence, abuse, SA related to a BG3 scene) this content might not be suitable for all audiences. Trigger warning***

The game Hatred.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

One of the scenes of possible killing of the victim. This is one of the scenes that caused the game to be removed from Steam for a while (then returned), which was a trigger for many people (though there was more than one such scene in Hatred), causing Steam to be flooded with complaints about the game. This is also a repetitive violence scene like the patch 6 kisses, you can kill civilians in Hatred as many times as you want and activate these scenes as many times as you want, just like with Astarion's kisses from patch 6.

Dead Space 2 game.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Isaac pokes out his eye. This is a one-time but obligatory story scene, without it you will not be able to pass the game.

Also similar content and similar facial expressions. The game had to raise the age rating because of this scene.

BG3

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

BG3 is rated M (mature 17+) by ESRB on Steam. Hatred is rated A (Adults only) by ESRB in Steam. Both Hatred and Dead Space 2 have an additional warning on the screen, unlike BG3.

I understand the frustration of people who bought the game after patch 6 for the opportunity to roleplay special romance and relevant scenes. I've read reviews from players who say it's frustrating to be the minority and now romance has become too “vanilla” for them. Of course, it's up to the developers, if they want to keep the content in their game for the audience they've already attracted so as not to disappoint them, they might be willing to raise their ESRB rating to A. But, in this case, if the game is ready to satisfy all of its players, including those who came to the game after patch 6 (or because of it), then they should certainly satisfy the audience that wants a classic romance with Astarion after Ascension. These players bought the game at release, someone involved back in EA, and they had no idea that their favorite character would become a romantic partner exclusively for D/s. They played the game for six months and then suddenly found themselves unable to play without mods anymore because they find the kissing scenes unacceptable to them because of the actions and animations themselves, regardless of Tav's facial expressions. For these players, the patch 5 kiss should have been returned to the “Gently” line. It wouldn't create any problems for the game itself, it wouldn't increase the rating, it would just improve the game and add variety to it with the possibility of inclusion for all players. The very idea of D/s romance in the game is great, but it shouldn't be mandatory, you should give players a choice whether they want it or not.

Originally Posted by fylimar
I totally agree with you. Bg3 is a mature game with horror themes and I'm totally ok, that something creepy like Haarlep is in the game. I don't care about kissing animation much, but I do think that a good story sometimes let's you feel uncomfortable. And defeating Haarlep gives you a lot of gratification exactly because you take back your autonomy.

Honestly, when I went through the game I just fought Haarlep, I liked the fight, but I had no idea about any “back of autonomy” thing. How can you get back something that no one took from you? To learn about Haarlep, if you don't want to consent to sex with him, you need to at least read about it or watch a video. There's nothing creepy about him in the game itself, he's a rather vulgar but unusual and curious enemy. I don't see the difference between a “Take your clothes off” line and a “I'm going to kill you now” style line - both are cause for a fight.

Last edited by Marielle; 16/08/24 08:28 PM.
One life, one love - until the world falls down.