Originally Posted by Ametris
Originally Posted by jinetemoranco
I'll try to clarify why the scene can still be unnerving (or even more so) for some people even now, but I'll also say: I find it rather unnecessary to incessantly question someone trying to look for some sort of fault rather than just taking them at their word and discuss the feedback. It comes across as not believing them rather than wanting to explore the topic.

So, to explain the dissonance:

Serious content warning for imagery of violence

For the sake of helping it come across I'm going to have to invoke way more exaggerated imagery, just to explain why some could be unnerved. Understand that said imagery and topics are used just to help illustrate the issue, not in relation to the debate. I'm not comparing what Astarion does to a murder or the circumstances the kiss happens in to a murder, I'm trying to explain why the happy faces might be kind of icky for some, so please don't fall into a discussion over this.
Basically, imagine if there was a scene where instead it's Tav getting murdered, even though you asked for something else (similarly to how you're asking for a kiss, not for kneeling or any sort of kinky play). The scene plays as you'd imagine and it's a pretty brutal depiction at that. Except Tav is enthusiastically smiling all along. Uh, is it consensual now? Maybe? The thing is, people will feel that's a disturbing reaction for someone to have to something like that being done to their character if that's not how they envision them, and Tav might even come across as drugged or brainwashed.

Ermm... what? You're giving an example of asking for something and getting something else in return. In the scene with Astarion you're asking for a kiss and you're getting a kiss. The fact it's a rougher kind of kiss fits AA's personality and the new dynamic in the relationship. Him asking you to kneel and that insight check are also clearly indicating you're in for some kinky play. What would make it flow even better is if we could choose the type of smooching, like we could in the turning scene. Fortunately, we can thanks one amazing mod, though I still miss that option in the actual game. That scene proves that, while AA is clearly dominant, he wants Tav to also have a say in how things proceed. He wouldn't keep kissing them if he saw that they are miserable.
Originally Posted by Ametris
Originally Posted by jinetemoranco
@Ametris you'll find that, while yes, you asked for a kiss, also getting grabbed by the throat is a pretty big extra where there might be a dissonance in the expression with the action being performed on the character. It's not the same as, say, Wyll doing a little dance before kissing you. It evokes certain aggressive imagery, that while okay if it's been more thoroughly negotiated, can still be disturbing. I don't disagree that it reflects AA's personality. As I mentioned, I wasn't looking into a discussion for why my example is a perfect metaphor: I was trying to get across why certain expressions to certain actions can still be jarring.

He also grabs Tav in the turning scene when you choose rough play. It's nothing new.
1000 % agree on Ametris. You ask for a kiss, and you get to see a kiss. Larian decided to go for the D/s dynamics. You consent to submit in the kneeling scene in his romance. Still, if people don't like to see D/s dynamics in the kiss, I would support them to get the romantic kisses, when they choose "gentle". There but should never stay an SV scene in this romance - for many reasons - especially not with BDSM elements, to not further harm the BDSM community, when people already misjudge BDSM or D/s dynamics or find them "icky".
I find it highly problematic if people, who don't like D/s dynamic or find a consensual kink play "icky" (quote) or at worst already disturbing, would then see the same scene with the exact same BDSM elements, but as a depiction of SV

sexual violence / abuse
instead, which then would even reinforce the assumption that BDSM would be disgusting or at worst criminal. This would be disrecpectful toward the BDSM community. I find it concerning, that some people find such an idea the right thing. Let us not get targeted by hatred or further be misjudged.

"I would, thank God, watch the universe perish without shedding a tear."