Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Larian, please ensure you don’t take away player agency with AA in patch 7

Except not necessarily. It's possible to fail that insight check, and to refuse at first, after which the only way to continue the relationship is to choose the option "Give in and kneel". (Tav's face in this scene looks confused, uncertain and slightly upset too. They're not smirking or grinning like they would be in the new animations.)

But Tav gets the same kisses regardless of the option they chose. It would be new to a Tav who chose "Be gentle, if you can", making the enthusiastic reactions even more out of character for some players' characters.

@Ametris Yes, and and to get that scene you had to say "Oh, come on, let it hurt.", very different from just asking for a kiss. Said scene also has way milder expressions, which might be a bit inadequate considering Tav is 100% into it and consenting to it, but I find them less goofy than the new face for the throat grab.

About Haarlep, if you haven't gone through the game, don't watch the spoiler:
To implement this in the AA kiss, we need to write either as in the night of conversion, where depending on the choice of option, there is a different animation.
Or prescribe new lines followed by different animations:
а. Kiss me so that I'm scared (similar)
б. Kiss me gently
But, then again, isn't that AA's instruction on how he should kiss Tav?

Leaving the flag in the middle of the game (when you have disagreed or told AA that it scares you) to be triggered later can cause an error because it is left unclosed, as when the animation follows immediately and closes the flag. So in the game, most of the results follow immediately after the selection. Moreover, now the kiss animation triggers before turn night, which is illogical. And this is not a norm, but a bug that follows immediately after the result: you have taken the AA path- AA kiss animation.
Such a bug was already in the game, which eventually broke the whole Act 3(when the steals were not closed in the game and remained unclosed, cluttering the game and eventually breaking it).


On the contrary, when I ask a question, I try to understand the person's point of view, not to hurt them or show that I don't believe them. Perhaps they will give me a point of view that I will take into consideration and change my opinion.

1000 % agree on Ametris. You ask for a kiss, and you get to see a kiss. Larian decided to go for the D/s dynamics. You consent to submit in the kneeling scene in his romance. Still, if people don't like to see D/s dynamics in the kiss, I would support them to get the romantic kisses, when they choose "gentle". There but should never stay an SV scene in this romance - for many reasons - especially not with BDSM elements, to not further harm the BDSM community, when people already misjudge BDSM or D/s dynamics or find them "icky".
I find it highly problematic if people, who don't like D/s dynamic or find a consensual kink play "icky" (quote) or at worst already disturbing, would then see the same scene with the exact same BDSM elements, but as a depiction of SV

instead, which then would even reinforce the assumption that BDSM would be disgusting or at worst criminal. This would be disrecpectful toward the BDSM community. I find it concerning, that some people find such an idea the right thing. Let us not get targeted by hatred or further be misjudged.

Thank you : )

Even if you fail that check, the fact you have to kneel is already suggesting he wants that kind of dynamic. There's also a scene with Abdirak and his romantic lines where he enjoyes seeing Tav bound. There's also a special scene with Durge where he's enjoying tying them up. I missed some of these scenes, but I could still see the writing on the wall.



Hence why me and other users have been asking to be able to choose rough and gentle kisses to fit two kinds of d/s dynamic that were introduced in the turning scene.

I'm not sure I'm following here. There are lots of flags in the game that lead to other events triggering later, and they can trigger repeatedly. For example, Astarion being flagged as the romanced companion is what gives Tav access to the romantic dialogue, including kisses. This doesn't go away after you chose the options once.
I'm not suggesting different ways of asking for a kiss. What I mean is the game acknowledging that Tav is scared or unhappy via flagged dialogue options, and having those flags lead to the original kiss cinematics being played whenever Tav asks for a kiss.

Once again, I was just trying to illustrate why some people can find the scene unnerving or to still have certain undertones if they don't feel that's their character, for whatever reason. I'm not trying to get into the depths of the debate again. Adding extra options is always a welcome change, if only unlikely given that Larian is pretty much done with the game.

I don't disagree with that on his side. What I mean is that it doesn't make sense for every Tav to be suddenly depicted as enthusiastically into and prepared for everything, when before they were consistently allowed to react with confusion or uncertainty.

Yes, the only way to contuine the relationship with Astarion is to submit and kneel. Point. That's the reason why there are 2 break up options before and the game is hinting, where the relationship will go. 2 Break-up options for all those, who don't like the D/s vibe and Astarion being dominant or to kneel voluntarily. You can kick him in the balls, if you don't like to *humiliate* yourself (you = your Tav) and kneel. And no, Tav isn't upset there. So if you consent and kneel, the game assumes you like this. "Abuse" or "Astarion being utterly evil to his romance partner" is not canon. If you regret it afterwards, the game gives you the possibility to break up after as you can break up with any other companion, if you don't want to consent to your partner (don't love them) anymore. That's game mechanics.

You're right, the game does have a "delayed result" depending on the player's choices.
What I'm saying is that the choice and the immediate outcome of the choice is an easy way to write for a game.
Writing choice and consequence under a certain condition is more complicated and can cause bugs that the studio doesn't have much time to test.
For those examples that exist in the game, the game was made for quite a long time, then players submit bug reports. There was an opportunity to spell out and handle all the nuances.

I guess it's a game limitation. I would have liked there to be an extra scene where they have a conversation about it. For me it would have worked best in the turning scene, where Tav can argue a bit after a second 'no' instead of experiencing a forced breakup. I also mentioned before how I find the whole exchange unrealistic and cartoonish."No. Yes. No. 'k, bye." Honestly, who talks like that? I played as a female drow and I was certainly missing a possibility to kick a fuss and go high and mighty 'drow women never kneel in front of others' but I had to chalk it up to Larian's poor development of act 3 reactivities and write extra dialogues in my head.

The question is also whether you saw screenshots or videos. Because screenshots don't show the full range of emotions. Screenshots can be placed advantageously, they can be taken out of context, so to speak. If you saw a video and weren't satisfied with what you saw, that's a different matter. I really see different possibilities for interpretation there. But that's me, others may have different opinions.
And you need to watch with your Tav, because it greatly affects the impression. This is just advice to wait for the patch.

Agreed, I wish we could get more insight if Tav pushes back, instead of just the short back and forth.

I don't think that's true, at least not from what I've seen. In my game I choose "No" first, and then "Give in and kneel," and she doesn't have an upset face at all. Her face looks neutral and curious to find out about what's going to happen. The only time she has a tense face for a moment is when he first bites into the neck.

Hahaha. Maybe it should be tense and kinky, that's what I felt, I really enjoyed this scene (my favourite one! I admit it), when I choose "no" and he said a simple, dominant and playful "yes!" So for that, it was great. But the break-up scene could have been written better or having the possibility to talk about it.

The back and forth is fine initially, it is kind of funny in a way, and I also liked his "yes" and that smug smile, but the breakup scene afterwards is just poorly written. At that moment they should drop the game and talk like real adults. To me it's the same limitation as in the post ascension scene where you can only be negative and naggy about something you actually helped him with.

I've seen the full animations for all three kisses, yes. They may look slightly different on different Tavs, but (in my opinion) they don't leave any room for interpretation. I've watched them many times and tried to look at them differently, but I really don't recognize my character in them.

Heh, I also really liked that!