Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Larian, please ensure you don’t take away player agency with AA in patch 7

Yeah, I see it the same. And this breakup-scene makes Astarion just look like a little and hurt brat - lol. Not worthy a Vampire Lord. (But maybe I get, why they did this)

My Tav definitely looks unsettled, and surprised and hurt at the insight check. Maybe the expression looks different on other face presets?

It would have been great if Tav instead of just "no" added their arguments why they don't want to do it, and Astarion said why they need to do it and gave them an ultimatum with some extra back and forth lines in between, but yeah... this ship has sailed.

I've played a few Tav/TC, and one constantly frowns at any event, and the other has the face of a perpetual deer. Dragon Tav in general is a "log" in terms of emotion.
Depends not only on faces, but also races and body.
Even the emotion of fear can range from "well I wasn't expecting that" to "oh wow, I'm really really scared, help me".

I assure you that from seeing the new expressions in a video to playing them with your own TAV, things change and a lot.
This is why I think that before putting your hands up and saying "No, I don't like them", wait for the patch to come out and see.
I, who have always supported the request to change the TAV expressions making them happy, when I saw and played the new ones for the first time with my TAV, I didn't like them very much at first. Then I looked at them again and I liked them, I saw my TAV happy, even if confused/surprised in many moments. I repeat, more than 90% of the new expressions are neutral. And I'm not just saying this for the sake of it, but because it's true! Even analyzing the game files, the expressions used fall into the "neutral" category. On the contrary, always analyzing the game files, it was seen that all the faces used in the current expressions in kisses with AA, fall into the fear/suffering category.
So maybe at the moment you think the new faces don't give space for interpretation but in my opinion, and I have played with them, it's not true. Wait to see.
I understand that new expressions may not be liked, but patch 7 has not yet officially come out and we don't know how the majority of the players with react to them.

I can't agree that they look neutral. The only moment that still looks neutral at all to me is Tav's surprise when he bites their lip.
The request being made here is also for an option to keep the original expressions for those of us who liked them, not to change the new ones before they are released. So I don't think waiting until the patch is released to give our feedback would be a good idea. Patch 7 was also announced to be the last major patch, so I think it's reasonable to make our suggestions while there is still a chance they will be seen and maybe taken into consideration.

From what I know, also said by the moderators who follow those who are in the beta test, at the moment the developers are focused on fixing bugs and problems that do not allow the correct functioning of the game.
We have not been denied to send feedback, but they have repeatedly said that it is not their priority. And it will be like this until the official release of patch 7.
It may also be that they will take this request of yours into consideration, but given that your request is something that takes time to implement and that the patch has been announced for September, I do not know if they will be able to implement it yet.
But, who knows.
However, in my opinion, it is right to say to wait for the release of the patch and to personally try the new expressions before giving a final judgment. Even just out of respect for the developers who have worked on it for months.
You yourself are basing your opinion on videos, therefore expressions seen on other TAVs. As has already been said by others here, the expressions (even if the same ones), change, have a different rendering based on the sex, the chosen face, the race and even the body of the TAV.

If players had known Tav would look scared/confused in the new kisses prior to Patch 6, would they have wanted to wait for it to be released before suggesting an alternative?
And how do you know the players asking to keep the old expressions haven't seen the new ones on their own Tavs (or a Tav with the same face and body type)?

The original expressions were also worked on for months (I know one of them at least was in the files long before Patch 6, including the expressions). One could also argue that out of respect for that work, they shouldn't be cut completely from the game.
Also, again, in case it was misunderstood: I'm not asking to change the new expressions that have been worked on. The request here is for an option to stick with the old ones, for players who would prefer to keep them.

Yeah, I understood that and I saw that dialog. It's just that there are other lines in there that close it out. After that, it seemed more appropriate for me to immediately respond with “To kill you” in response to his “Why are you here, little thief?” On the first playthrough, you'll probably want to do the dialog anyway, as you would with any character you meet in the game, so as not to shortcut your story, but when it's already clear what's up with him, you can just kill him right away. I can play different ways, but within certain limits, there are things I would never do, and I won't be able to roleplay a character that would want to do that. Just like in DnD I won't go into LG or LE alignment because I'll get nonsense. But there are times in dialogs, like this dialog with Hope, when there are several questions that could be asked regardless of the alignment, but the game only lets you ask one thing as a result, and so you're missing something anyway.


Not about everyone, but only about those who themselves state that they want to play this way, and that it's their roleplay. Well, if that's what such a roleplay is called, it's a bit strange to me what's the big deal, and why not call things by their proper names. Those who don't see their romance path as D/s want a variant of the classic kiss for the “Gently” choice, and they've talked about that too. The way the kiss animations are currently presented in the game - it can either be D/s (happy faces) or dead dove (scared and suffering faces). It can't look any other way, you need other animations to make it look different.


If I wanted to experience tragedy in the game, I would certainly choose the option to forgo the ritual, but should I have asked for a sad face for my Tav in that case? Should I have therefore asked for an additional dialogue option for Tav, who, after Astarion's words that he would never see the sun, realized what she had done and would feel that she had made a terrible mistake? If I wanted to play it that way, Tav's reactions would also break my roleplay. And the option of not being able to control her own actions and reactions along the way is there too - some higher power prevents Tav from looking for a way to heal Astarion, and makes her instead “joyfully” adventuring and doing other things, and in the finale, when Astarion is on fire, Tav can't even run after him - it's a complete inability to control her actions.

Maybe they should speak for themselves then?


Larian already cut a ton of stuff from the game due to feedback or for unknown reasons. There were many things that I liked, which are gone forever and I have to live with it.


This. I don't remember there being any dialogue options for Tav to express their regret for not helping Astarion with the ritual. He also changes in that path, but Tav has no way to express their dislike about it like they do after ascending him. There's also the previously mentioned no possibility to break up with him during the graveyard date and leaving the scene.

Gotcha - yeah, it seems that sometimes, you can't exhaust the whole dialogue tree. I guess in some cases it makes sense, in others, it doesn't. I was kind of lucky to get Hopes very sad answer the first time around, then encountered Haarlep and just killed him.
I'm contemplating making a thread about that topic in the Story section, since it is an interesting one, but a bit offtopic now that the discussion moved on. I might do that, when I'm home tomorrow.

Edit: I don't much care for lawful alignment either much, though I do think, lawful evil was pretty good represented with Raphael and Mizora in the game and lawful good with Wyll, but I myself tend to play chaotic good or chaotic neutral.

That's what I'm doing. I was including myself in "players asking to keep the old expressions".


I mentioned that work has also been put into creating the original kisses because I was told I should just wait for the new ones out of respect for the work it took to create them.
If you want to make your own thread to bring back the cut content you miss, or to suggest more negative options for Tav in the Spawn path, you can do that. But we're not asking for new content to be created and added here, we're asking for the option to keep what we already have and don't want to lose.
I don't really see the purpose of answering someone's request for content they like not to be cut with "Other content was cut too". Other content is not what this thread is about.

I understand that your request is not to change the expressions, I just said that currently, from what I know, the developers, in view of the release of patch 7, are focused on other things. And I also said that maybe they will take your request into consideration before the official release of the patch.
And I don't think I wrote anywhere that those who don't like the new expressions haven't already played them. I was replying to you who, if I understood correctly (and correct me if I'm wrong), are basing your judgment on some videos. In general, in my opinion, before having a final judgment on them, they should be tried.
However, I admit that if I had been given the opportunity to see the expressions of patch 6 in advance, I would have asked for them to be changed first, but I also admit that I wouldn't have been surprised if they hadn't taken the request into consideration immediately, if not after the official release of the patch, because (if there had been the same dynamics for the current release of patch 7), I suppose that before adding/changing something in the game, the developers wait to have feedback from the majority of players.
Anyway, I'm probably giving the wrong impression, but I'm not saying you shouldn't make your requests.

You already said it on the last page that you've seen the animations, there's no need to speak for the others at this point.


I was strictly speaking about the idea of respecting the developers' work. If Larian wants to cut things from the game, it's their right. I'm not belittling your request.


Already did and nothing was changed.

Why is this a “different situation”? The transformation scene shows AA listening to Tav's wishes.



If a tender kiss was AA's before, why can't it be now? Why don't you ask for it?


Again, this topic is much broader than your idea of your Tav. We're talking specifically about AA and his personality as a character. The AA I knew before patch 6 and the AA I saw in patch 6 are different people. By asking to keep the emotion of fear, you're essentially asking for AA to remain the rapist it became in patch 6. Do you think your gaming experience and the experience of players who came after patch 6 is more important than the gaming experience of people who have been playing since the game's release? Furthermore, people who played before patch 6 are suggesting a compromise that will suit everyone in terms of roleplaying.


Isn't what the character was originally realized to be is more important than what they made him to be in one patch with just a couple animations? Animations that are taken out of the overall context and narrative by globally spitting on the character's personality? That's not the same thing. Larian might as well have added a scene in patch 7 in which AA punches Tav in the face with the words “Don't be stupid, darling.” when he tries to break up with him, and dialog in the epilogue implying that Tav is on a rat diet. This will certainly satisfy some people who will get their beliefs about AA's route and “cycle of abuse” confirmed, but that doesn't mean it's acceptable or even fair.


In the scene of Tav transforming into spawn, he didn't mind when Tav expressed a request to be gentler \ to hurt, so I tend to focus on the facts of the game.


These are the kinks taken from the spawn conversion scene. It's all from there - knees, neck, bites. Only the transformation scene was consensual and Tav had a choice, the kissing is an inappropriate display of violence not justified from a plot point of view, just like AA's character. By making happy faces, Larian will bring this context and plot back to where it was from the beginning. Do you really think the “cycle of abuse” should be shown in this way? Through fanservice on February 14? If Larian wanted to show the cycle of abuse and physical violence in this route, they should have done it from the beginning and been much more serious about it.

I wasn't trying to. I meant I don't think we have to start out with the assumption that others have not seen them. I'm not trying to speak for anyone either way.


Because that's not what will be changed in Patch 7, and it's not the topic of this thread. If you want to give your own feedback and ask for the gentle kiss back, you can do that.


They're not different people to me. I have been playing since Patch 1 too, and never saw Patch 6 as a change in character. You and others did, and that is your right, but it's not a universal experience.


That's... a huge leap.


That's your opinion. I and others don't think Patch 6 changed his personality at all.


Tav's request in the spawn turning scene is about how they are going to die. It's a special moment, and it wouldn't be the same thing to have Tav order him around in kisses.


Yes, to either go along with everything he wants or to lose him.

I disagree with this. On other occasions AA asks for TAV's opinion and takes it into consideration. It wouldn't seem strange or against the character at all to me if he accepted TAV's request to be kissed differently. Even in the moment you mention, I don't think he fulfills TAV's request, just because it's a special moment. He could have done as he wanted since TAV, at that moment, has already accepted to be transformed and, in a certain sense, is already his.

I don't mean he would never take what they want into consideration. Just that it would feel strange for Tav to give this character instructions on how they want to be kissed, in my opinion.

Then why does he allow Tav to be the boss in the evil ending and decide things without him being able to order them around in any way, while they can mindcontrol him at will and become his personal Cazador 2.0?

If you think, the personality of AA hasn't changed in patch 6 in that kiss, how do you explain, that in pre-patch 6 he is respecting the consent, when Tav asks for a kiss, and in patch 6, when the same Tav is asking for a kiss, he is not respecting Tav's consent and



I know it!