The original expressions were also worked on for months (I know one of them at least was in the files long before Patch 6, including the expressions). One could also argue that out of respect for that work, they shouldn't be cut completely from the game.
Larian already cut a ton of stuff from the game due to feedback or for unknown reasons. There were many things that I liked, which are gone forever and I have to live with it.
The patch 5 kiss was a great scene, and it was cut. It probably wouldn't be hard to bring it back into the game to provide a roleplay for all players, including those who want a classic romance with Astarion. This scene - I think it has more value than just the programmed “Scared, sad and pained” emotion. Patch 6's kissing animations were done separately, and the facial expressions were set by program code, and all the previous animations remained in the game. This may be the reason why Tav is still gawking in the Bite kiss, and there's a moment in the same kiss where Tav has a blank stare. Larian probably wanted to change the kisses so that they didn't have to spend on animations again. So all of that work done in patch 6 that was worth the real effort has stayed in the game, you don't have to worry about that. I also have a lot of respect for the work that Larian did in EA, and a lot of really interesting and valuable scenes from EA that I would have loved to see in the main game never made it into the game, and that's a really big loss, but alas, it hardly makes sense to ask for those scenes back now. The “Scared, sad and pained” expressions on a character's face can be done by anyone capable of working with the game's code, and the modders would probably do it easily.
This. I don't remember there being any dialogue options for Tav to express their regret for not helping Astarion with the ritual. He also changes in that path, but Tav has no way to express their dislike about it like they do after ascending him. There's also the previously mentioned no possibility to break up with him during the graveyard date and leaving the scene.
Yes, I think it's a clear omission for the possibility of roleplaying tragic stories.
Gotcha - yeah, it seems that sometimes, you can't exhaust the whole dialogue tree. I guess in some cases it makes sense, in others, it doesn't. I was kind of lucky to get Hopes very sad answer the first time around, then encountered Haarlep and just killed him.
I'm contemplating making a thread about that topic in the Story section, since it is an interesting one, but a bit offtopic now that the discussion moved on. I might do that, when I'm home tomorrow.
Edit: I don't much care for lawful alignment either much, though I do think, lawful evil was pretty good represented with Raphael and Mizora in the game and lawful good with Wyll, but I myself tend to play chaotic good or chaotic neutral.
Yes, this would be an interesting topic, I didn't had cause to mention it before, but in my opinion, there are quite a few dialogs in the game where you could give the option to choose multiple lines (this one is mostly just about dialog lines that give you the opportunity to question an NPC or companion in more detail).
Gortash (the chosen one of Bane - the god of tyranny) - also a good example of lawful evil. Will's father Duke Ravenguard (well, the son into his father) - looks like a canonical example of lawful good.
I know there is a choice in the scene where he turns Tav, but that's a different situation than asking for a kiss, before Tav is his spawn, and not a repeatable action.
Why is this a “different situation”? The transformation scene shows AA listening to Tav's wishes.
“Ask me, and it will be yours.”
Isn't what the character was originally realized to be is more important than what they made him to be in one patch with just a couple animations? Animations that are taken out of the overall context and narrative by globally spitting on the character's personality? That's not the same thing.
That's your opinion. I and others don't think Patch 6 changed his personality at all.
In patch 6, Astarion looks like a man with a mental disorder, complete with sudden attacks (well, or not quite sudden, he's specifically triggered by being asked for a kiss) and subsequent amnesia. Astarion becomes himself again, and has absolutely no memory of what he was doing. Aside from the horrible feeling of the scenes themselves with Tav having that expression on her face, it also hurts that there's no way to try to cure him, and there are no psychiatrists on Faerûn, and Astarion meanwhile probably thought that Tav was not paying attention to him or kissing him at all (due to his amnesia). Such mental illness doesn't fundamentally change personality, yes, but the character certainly wasn't designed that way originally. And Tav clearly has some problems too, if they can't talk to Astarion about what's going on with him without kissing... in a calm atmosphere.
I don't mean he would never take what they want into consideration. Just that it would feel strange for Tav to give this character instructions on how they want to be kissed, in my opinion.
And I think it's a bit strange to call displays of love and tenderness “instructions”. In normal life people just kiss each other, without any instructions and additional lines, in the game it's impossible, Tav can't just walk up, hug or kiss Astarion, so you need some lines that activate it. It's not an “ instruction”, it's a game convention, part of the mechanics of the game. Tav does what he wants the entire game. I don't recall a single instance of Astarion obstructing or objecting to me.
Then why does he allow Tav to be the boss in the evil ending and decide things without him being able to order them around in any way, while they can mindcontrol him at will and become his personal Cazador 2.0?
Yeah, good point. Tav's choice in the finale is to take control of the Brain or destroy it. Astarion suggests taking control of the Brain. Which is very rash, because in that case Tav will control the Brain, and, purely theoretically, could even take control of Astarion himself, why doesn't he try to take control of the Brain himself? Because he trusts Tav? And when Tav ignores his offer to control the Brain, Astarion... Rejoices that he is now completely free, and there is no more tadpole. A tyrant who won't let him make decisions and ignores his lover's opinion, no other way. Of course, he would refuse Tav if Tav wanted to kiss him gently. No more sweet pointy ears, that time has passed.
It does make sense to me, he was a magistrate, he respects deals and he made one with Tav. He lets Tav do what they want, even cheat on him, the only condition is that they have to stay with him and not stray too far. He also isn't thrilled about going to the epilogue party, but it's hinted he does that because Tav wants to see their friends.
Yes, in fact he even allows for cheating. I really wish Astarion would be more possessive and protective, like being the first to attack Haarlep while protecting Tav, instead of flapping his eyes the moment that incubus makes such a disgustingly obscene suggestion. But he's waiting for me to draw my own sword. And at the party himself, he tells me to go hang out with my friends, even though I'd like to stay close to him.
I don't agree with this either. Except for that one occasion you mentioned, AA no longer calls the TAV "pet". But maybe I'm remembering wrong. And in any case in that case he doesn't answer the TAV by saying "I'll call you whatever I want", he just complains about the fact that the TAV lacks humor.
Tav really lacks humor. P.E.T. - is Perfect Every Time. How could Tav not have guessed?
Yes, he would have preferred it. He's also not interested in sleeping in the dirt, which he'll have to do as they travel and he also doesn't find parties outside of the palace very interesting. He also doesn't care about the others, he mostly sees them as a source of gossip and potential future enemies. Tav is his only real friend so it makes sense he'd want to see them. When he's single he point blank admits to being lonely.
He only calls them pet again if they try to break up with him and then change their mind. He's rude when he's rejected and played with. Of course he won't get along with everything if he's treated unpleasantly, he's not a doormat.
I like that a lot. A real live character that reacts to the attitude towards him.
And that "scary" face and tone when he says "You know I adore you terribly".
Oh, that would be worth adding for Tavs who don't want to break up... Hell, I can't even joke with words like that, it doesn't fit my character, and I'm missing out on an Astarion like that again. It would be great if Tav could harass Astarion asking how much he loves them, and Astarion would make that “scary” face and say: “You know I adore you terribly.” That would be terribly romantic. <3
