Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Wyll should make his own decisions

SInce I didn't read it in the patch 7 notes and Wyll often gets forgotten, I want to ask, if he will finally be able to make his own decisions with patch 7. Somehow he is the only character, we have to make the decisions for, everyone else in the group makes their own decisions, with Tav maybe persuating.
And since he is teh dukes son, tehre should be a bit more reaction to him in the city imo.
So basically please let Wyll decide what he wants to do and let people recognise him in BG. That would be great.

The people of BG3 cannot recognise him as they don't know him. He ran off into the wild when he was a teen. Top-level aristocrat tweens are rather unlikely to be known by sight to the wider Public.
"You Ravengard's son? Yeah, and Elminster's my daddy. Fuck off, druggie!"

Wyll was 17 when he left Baldur's Gate and he was the only son and appointed heir to the Grand Duke.

At the time of Baldur's Gate 3 between 5-10 years have passed since he was exiled by his father.

For comparison this is a picture of Jude Bellingham at 16:



And this is Jude Bellingham at 21:



Are you telling me you wouldn't immediately recognize that this is the same person?

I agree that it should be possible to allow Wyll to make his own mind up about what to do about his contract and his father. In fact, I think I reported the inability to do so as a bug in my first playthrough as it felt so wrong not to let him decide for himself.

Particularly as the other party members then were all judgy about him breaking the contract, when it was my character's call!

I do hope this is one of the improvements made to Wyll's writing in patch 7.

I really hope too, but just in case that not, I thought I make a little 'Justice for Wyll' thread. They did him a bit dirty.
I'm actually one of the people, who liked the rewrite, but I think, they should have given him more reactivity and more to do. His story, together with Lae'zels, is the one, mostly tied to the main story and still, many people don't even recognise that Iron Throne and Ansur are basically part of his personal quest.

The reactions to breaking the pact are so weird. In my game, Wyll had already gotten out of his first contract, and he was just waiting for the 6 months to be up. Selling his soul again makes him a tool for Mizora and ultimately Zariel. Mizora has already tried to trick him into killing an innocent person, Karlach. That's a completely pragmatic, non-selfish reasons why it's a terrible deal. But we can't point this out to the companions.

Their reactions are supportive if Shadowheart decides to kill her parents to escape pain. Why is that considered acceptable but avoiding eternal damnation isn't? At least Jaheira points out that any decent parent would never want want their child to take such a deal.

Agreed, the reactions are all over the place with Wyll. I think, he deserves better, especially since they all were glad, when he decided to end his pact in the first place.

With other companions like Shadowheart, Astarion and Lae'zel taking them along on the quests that involve them can have a huge impact on the outcome and aftermath, but with Wyll it just doesn't matter if he is there or not.

"Oh Wyll, by the way, we saved your dad from the Iron Throne. He is over there in the corner, maybe you two should talk."

Yes, I hate that. I make it my special focus to have him in my party and freeing his dad, when I do that quest.
That is, what I mean: people don't even realise that this is one of Wylls quests, same with Ansur.

In Ansur's case, I am very salty that the quest gets hijacked .... As for the rest, I also think it's weird that the characters talk like Wyll made a choice while I made it for him. It makes me wonder if something different was planned here and eventually switched to what we have now.

Sometimes they even talk as if he made a choice that he didn't:

-Poor Wyll had to sacrifice his father to get out of his deal with Mizora.

-No he didn't, his father is right there, 10 feet away from you.

Agreed, it is strange, that they didn't fix this so far. Wyll is an origin companion and should get a bit more treatment. For me, he is the companion, that is the most tied to the main story, together with Lae'zel. And still his story is treated like that of some random npc.

I also get the feeling the reactions were written for an older version of Wyll's questline/arc. I actually think that may be the case for a few of the reactions after meeting Elminster again in Act 3.

Minsc says, "Goddess or no, it is a fearsome sting to be let down by a lover." Selunite Shadowheart says, "Poor Gale. I hope he knows that a goddess abandoning him needn't be the end - I know from experience." The news is that Mystra wants to talk to him now. It's the least abandoned he's been all game. I'm very curious about what Gale's arc was before rewrites, and how that impacted Mystra's characterization, but that's getting off topic.

Just had the scene with him having to decide, if he breaks the pact or not in act 3 again. He broke the pact (or I did for him, since the poor guy can't decide for his own) and Karlach is adamant, he remade the pact and is now Zariels slave. How can that be so long in the game?

Especially with the entire backstory of Wyll evolving around how he is a rebel that forged his own path and made decisions that though they weren't necessarily the best ones, they were ultimately his and he will stand by them and face the consequences.

To be fair, Wyll is also the one who can actually oppose the main character and defend the grove against them. Problem with Karlach and the pact lies not within Wyll's lack of character, but in the overwhelming difficulty of choice. It is not the choice between 'evil path' and 'good path'.

You believe Karlach and spare her, you potentially get turned into a lemure and the Coast loses its sworn protector - many more families die at the hand of beasts and men.

You believe your source and kill Karlach, you gamble on saving the Sword Coast from the potentially dangerous infernal.

You agree to break the pact and forsake your father. That means the Gate loses its great general who contributed greatly to pursuing ideals that are embedded in Wyll's heart and mind. That ALSO means Wyll is now free from hurting the realms on the devil's command, there won't be new Karlach he needs to kill, there won't be time spent differently than helping the people.

Wyll's story is a balancing act, there is no obvious choice here, thats why I think its important to propose some hidden system aka 'nightsong points' for the change to be helpful, not harmful.

@SteelTempest: Not to forget Halsin and his cryptic "I am sorry, but Mystra is wrong about you, Gale." What? Why? What do you know that I don't? It's the one that confuses me most of all. All the others can still be seen as a reflection of their past break-up and as concern that the reunion might not go well, but Halsin seems to be very certain about Mystra's opinion of Gale.

I don't feel Wyll is especially tied to the main plot - only Gale, Lae'zel and Durge are baked into it, Shadowheart maybe - but it's weird that you can't even suss out what his opinion might be and maybe have to convince him away from it. Depending on what you pick, he sometimes seems to fluctuate between defender of the Sword Coast and power-grabby noble within seconds without any foreshadowing that political power might be an interest of his. I also don't think it was the best decision to have his plot get even more muddled if you recruit Karlach than if you let her die in act 1.

I think Wyll is pretty tied to the main story: he is Duke Ravenguards son, his father becomes a victim of the three Stooges, he knows Florrick and has special dialogue with her in all three instances ( four, if he breaks the pact) we meet her. We get the info about Ansur normally from his father ( never had it in a different way), Mizora , probably on Zariels orders, has a special interest in the whole affair. If I ever okay an origin, it will be Wyll - he and Durge have main character energy.
I think Shadowheart has ties to the main story in act 2, act 3 is more the resolve of her personal story. Gale has the fact, that Mystra wants the Stooges stopped and his ambition for the crown, Lae'zel has imo the most ties to the main story via her knowledge about mindflayers, Orpheus etc.
Karlach via Gortash, but that is all. Jaheira and Minsc have a personal interest in the Bhaal cult, Halsin and Astarion -I got nothing there. I think Cazador was in an early version planned as being tied to the whole plot,at least there are voice lines, where he offers us help. It might have been scratched with the scrapped idea of a plot in the upper city.

I think what I mean is: Wyll, with all I have listed above, should be tied even more, since he knows a lot of people in BG, is the ex via his father who is shown as a key figure and I'm honestly wondering why he got sidelined so much in act 3. Which is basically the point, I want to make ( sorry if it is unnecessarily complicated, I'm a bit tired and sick today and the brain isn't functioning too well:) )

There is a difference in ageing from 17 to 21 and from 17 to 27.
Also, different people age differently.
And, as I've said, in a city that size not that many people were acquainted with Ravengard's son. Servants, guards, some peers of the Duke, some playmates.

I feel that the "great general" thing is actually something the writing fails at portraying. I found the game told me Ulder was a great leader, but I didn't feel I was ever really shown it. The Flaming Fist is shown as corrupt, and he spends most of the game as a damsel in distress. I presume he is portrayed as competent in his other appearances in the franchise, but he's important enough that we shouldn't have to dig for that info outside the game itself. It made the argument that he was vital for the good of the city fall really flat, at least for me.

Oooooohhh. Mysterious. In my playthroughs that have reached act 3, Halsin has been by the time I'm doing Gale's quest, so I had no idea.

I can actually think of a moment where Wyll's quest being tied into the main quest causes a problem:

Ravenguard played a big role in Descend to Avernus, a tabletop campaign, that is basically the prelude to BG3. I guess, they were banking on people knowing his character.

Imagine going into Cazador's Palace only to find out that Cazador and Empy used to be buddies and now they're enemies, so you fight Cazador and kill him and then give Astarion a clap on the shoulder "It's done buddy!" and leave without any meaningful conclusion or reaction from Astarion.

Welcome to Wyll's World!

Yeah, that's pretty much it. They did promised more reactivity, I hope, Wyll get a bit of that too. Everyone gets their big scene after their big quest in act 3 is done, only Wyll does not. I think, there is nothing anymore after Ansur.

I do feel rather sorry for Wyll unfortunately he is just as bugged as Minthara though he at least has 3 relationship scenes if you can trigger them or not that is the question.

I had heard hes getting some attention so I hope it will improve with patch 7

one of my games Mizora turned to dust however I still have Wyll in camp
one of my games he cant follow the team in ACT 3 the Minthara/Jaheira problem
My recent Act 1 Tav , Wyll is missing and I'm yet to destroy/save the grove

Definitely needs something at Ansur however even Duke Ravengard (If safe) Councillor Florrick should have something to say about there being no dragon at some point.

What is the Jaheira/Minthara problem?
Tbh Wyll never bugged out on me before, I think, I had every scene playing normally, but if he refuses the pact in act 3, Karlach still thinks, he made the pact.

Jaheira sometimes stops following the group in act 3. Another of her problems can be that she follows, but is not counted as a full member of the team, so you cannot give her buffs like Minthara's "Soul Branding" and she will not automatically enter the fight when the rest of the gang rolls initiative.

I hadn't heard of either of those problems happen with Wyll before though. His main problem seems to be either his romance scenes having low priority compared to other camp scenes and his current dialogue after defeating Ansur being a mess if his dad is also alive/ not yet saved.

Never had those problems with any of the characters, but I don't use mods, if this is any relevant.

I do use mods, but I never had those problems eitehr. I onyl had Halsin and Minthara bigging out, but that seems to be a common occurence, when you have both of them.

The problems as the poster replied seemed to of occured with Wyll since the Xbox last update
I had the Jaheira/Minthara problem prior
you have to take control of them to move from point A to B in Act 3

Wylls romance has been stuck way down the list and out of all my Tav's (20+) I've only succeeded triggering his kiss in act 1 twice though my games has the bug no matter who you choose at the party I only ever spend the night with Astarion regardless if I say Shadowheart , Minthara
bearing in mind I get the woods scene as soon as I hit level 3 with Astarion so this is always stage 2 fade to black.


The Mizora dust bug no idea I had expected his dust scene in camp but hornless Wyll is still available.
bear in mind too this is over a few different Tav's games and not in a single playthrough.

I had no problem triggering Wylls kiss scene at the party recently with my Kimiko playthrough (decided, he was best suited as Frenchie), but I reject Astarion or just ignore what he tries to imply (always tell him xy is more attractive/interesting/whatever). But I had Wylls dancing scene in act 2 triggered a few times, despite being in a romance with another character (found out, that if I say the party would be better with him or I would love to dance with him at the party, those are romance starters too).
Could that indeed be xbox specific?

Do you mean, you were only able to trigger Atsarions romance scenes? That would indeed be unfortunate.

I also had this when I wanted to see Shadowhearts Act 1 scene. I had to specifically turn down Astarion before going to bed and then select Shadowheart, otherwise the game auto picks Astarion. So a tip to try that for others that get that bug.

Interesting about Wyll romance starters! Thanks for sharing that info.

It could be xbox specific the Astarion thing not sure if kiramira is on xbox or PC that could be resolution to my Astarion problem though I very much like Astarion but out of all the romance kickstarts Wyll is definitely harder to trigger .

On a note I think there is a trigger conversation I missed a few times I've asked to dance a lot however I encountered him the morning after on a recent Tav not in act 2 yet and had the smile conversation I don't recall prior so we'll see if that is actually the one I need.

I just read about how patch testers are unhappy with Wylls new evil ending (I mean generally I read that the evil endings are a mixed bag). I would be totally happy, if he wouldn't get a dedicated evil ending, but more other content. Wyll has the potential of a lot of bad things happening to him (his father could die, he could kill Karlach and then find out she was not a devil, Ansur ...) and he is the only origin character that doesn't have some kind of emotional scene: Gale has his act 2 scene with the anxiety attack (one of my favourite scenes in the game, because it is so well done), Karlach her memorable outburst after defeating Gortash, Astarion after Cazador, SHadowheart after dealing with the HoG, Lae'zel has several moments of grief and anger throughout her story. Only Wyll doesn't get much in that regard and I bet, Theo, his VA, would do a great job in playing that out.

My understanding is that his evil ending doesn't do anything with Mizora. I would think and evil and powerful version of Wyll would be onboard for some vengeance, and that could get pretty dark. Killing her would be personal, so it wouldn't feel as generic. The lack of closure with Mizora frustrates me. I hate her. At least Companion Wyll is trying to hunt her down in some of his endings. I'm headcanoning he succeeds.

That is indeed unfortunate. In the beginning I thought, Mizora is untouchable, because they had something planned with her in an Avernus DLC or so. But since this is off the table, it would have made sense for Wyll to use the Netherbrain to get revenge on his former pact holder. Poor Wyll, he doesn't even get closure.

Can someone already playing with pacth 7 tell me, if Wyll can make his own decision in act 3 now? They promised more reactivity for him, but that was promised for resisting Durge famous scene too and it seems, that didn't really happen?
SO Iwould be happy to see, if they fixed non romance stuff for Wyll or anyone/thing else.

I had an old save right before Mizora offers the new deal, so I just reloaded to test. I still didn't get the option to tell him to make a choice. Karlach's reaction is still bugged, and she thinks Wyll gave up his soul to Zariel. I do like the part of her line where she says "There's such a thing as being too good. Someone ought to tell Wyll Ravenguard." I love Wyll and Karlach's friendship.

Honestly I wish it was at least based off if you had him kill Karlach or not. That choice really makes no difference outside of the horns which is crazy. You'd think his personality would've changed a wee bit but nada.

Support. Wyll needs more content in general, but at the very least he should be able to make his own choice in his own storyline...like every other origin companion can if we decide to not interfere.

This is really annoying. It seems Wyll got sidelined again in favour for other companions. He is the one with the least amount of content and his big scene is still broken.
Can this already get fixed? We are down to counting kisses with other companions, while he still is in a kind of pre release status.

It makes a change for the tiefling party. If you saved Karlach he is moping because he might be seen as a devil by the people who have just also been dragged into hell against their will. If you kill Karlach, he is starting to question if he can ever be the hero he wants to be while he has to do Mizora's bidding. But it would be cool, if this made a difference in his final choice.

If it's a consolation to you, fylimar, Mizora has at least been moved to the far side of the act 3 harbour camp now, so she is at least not standing directly next to Wyll any longer.

The last part is great, but I still would love to see Wyll getting some agency
I mean, if I understand correctly, the voice actors were brought in to record new lines to react to spawn Astarion. Would it really be too much to ask, that Theo could have recorded one or two more lines for Wylls quest? I get the feeling,some characters and storylines get a lot of attention,while the rest is just not important.

The lines for Astarion's dock scene have been in the game for a while. I can't find the original yt video that showed them (someone will probably swoop in with the date soon) but iirc the audio files have been in there since patch 5. So they were probably recorded along with the epilogue.

If you want to talk about favouritism, Shadowheart just got another set of camp animations after having her stool upgraded (which I still steal to sit with Gale in act 2) while Gale and Wyll are the only companions left with only their original idles. (Edit: Which is not supposed to sound as salty as it does, I rather they do things they feel motivated to do, than add things they don't really care about to to fill a quota.)

I mean there is clear favoutism going on, we all know, that Shadowheart and Astarion get pampered quite a lot.
I'm not wanting kisses or animations or faces made during kisses, I just want one more line of dialogue for Wyll, so that he can decide his own fate, same as everyone else.
I don't think, that is over the top or too much.
As a very hot take: if they had stayed away from adding more romantic interactions, there would have been less complaints and people maybe would give more feedback about the actual story. I don't care if a companion has one or twenty kiss animations, as long as their story is finished.
I might sound a bit salty, but it comes from a place of love for the game and the characters. The fan favourites already have enough speaking for them, so I thought to jump into the breach for Wyll,who is a very underrated character imo.

It's not too much.

Wyll is the companion I wanted to have by the side of my goodish character. I found it very dissapointing to learn that he was not at the same level as Astarion in terms of story and development, but then again I have not seen everything for my self. I heard his new romantic greeting still does not trigger properly on DUrge. I'm glad he got some attention in the latest patch though.

I think he is underrated because he is underdeveloped, and like you say a little too dependent on Tavs decisions which hurts his personality.

This, exactly. The problem with Wyll was the rewrite and the change in voice acting. Theo is great and given the opportunity, he does a stellar performance. Sadly, Wylls story rewrite was last minute and it shows. I like the new story, but it is often tied to someone else ( Karlach, Emperor), so that Wyll gets sidelined and the worst is, to not let him make a decision. According to his story, he was forced to make hard decisions very early on and then he can't make his most important decision alone.

Now we get Viagra ads? I miss the Dubai girls already

It is sad. I like Wyll but it was clear to me while playing that he has a lot less content than other characters. Which then leads to him being less popular, which seems to then lead to Larian neglecting him more because he's less popular. It's a vicious cycle and I'm not sure if they see it. :\

Agreed. It is sad, because when I started the full game, I had the feeling, that Wyll had the making of becoming as popular as Alistair from DAO. Whcih was never a favourite of mine - more because of his story than his personality, but Wyll was the knight in shining armor, witty banter and good looks (I mean, my lesbian ass might be off, but for me, Wyll is one of the best looking male characters in the game). I honestly liked his rewritten story up to the point, where he couldn't make his most important decision.
I don't keep tabs of who says what and how often, but it was clear, that Wyll had a lot less reactivity to events than fan favourites Shadowheart and Astarion for example. When he had something to say, it was great, but often, he didn't .

In the last weeks I had the feeling, that Wyll was gaining on popularity, I saw a lot more Wyll fan art and topics about him on the Reddit subforums for example, so my hope is, that there is maybe a bit more coming.

I found it ironic that it would target this thread where it have been more focus on adding more reaction from wyll instead of romance for others, when there are so many romance focused threads in here.

I don't think Wyll is unpopular because he has so little content - I mean, people love Minthara who also does not have much - but because he is a terrible moraliser while at the same time being shown as a not very skilled monster hunter. Leftovers of his old plot, I guess. Personally, I also bench him often because he is still picking fights in the most stupid manner when everyone else has started to get along.

A scene that also bothers me in regards to the second point, is the scene of him and Karlach in Avernus, during which he is given the completely silent role of a Tav who needs the Hells explained to them. Considering how the story for him and Karlach starts, that doesn't feel ok and undermines his monster hunter status once more. I haven't checked if the scene is voiced now, though, admittedly.

Right? Maybe they thought, there should be more romance in this thread.

Fyli, you make me very sad by equating romance with sex.

Not my opinion, but that is ok. I only know of one person, he picks fights with, and that is perfectly in character for him imo.
Minthara like Halsin has been made a companion because of fan demand, so it was clear, she is popular (evil drow woman is a must have since Viconia I guess). Halsin has even less content, but was also a fan demand.

I don't recall Wyll being a moralizer, but I tend to play neutral - good leaning characters, and the only companion that really got on my nerves with their commentary was Astarion. I've found Wyll, Karlach and Gale the best party to play, everyone was happy that we are helping people, and no snide remarks or in-fighting.

To get back on topic, for me the worst part of Wyll's quest is Mizora. I don't even get why she was given the best plot armor in a game that is supposed to be about player freedom, when she doesn't even contribute to the plot anymore at that point. She is the Noober of BG3 to me.

lmao agreed! Her plot armor is so obnoxious! Like why am I letting this woman who tried to kill Wyll's father just chill at camp it's crazy.

Completely agree. Not going to lie, it makes me so mad that she's just chilling in our camp and I can't make her leave! Why do random moochers keep invading my camp

Talking of Mizora, I didn't mind the time when she didn't want to have sex with the player character if you had freed Wyll from his pact. That was a convenient way to dodge that one. Now she not only propositions you, if you have freed Wyll, but also offers you help for the final battle that never comes if you let her stay in camp. I didn't see anything in the patch notes about this issue.

No, he isn't a moralizer. I like, that you can call him out and get approval from him. I think, Mizora has plot armor from the time they thought they might need her later, before they decided not to make a DLC or BG4. But that is just me theorizing.

That has never been the case for me (I always freed Wyll from his pact and she always still came up to me) maybe you were bugged?

@fylimar
It could be a plot leftover, there was a dialogue where she implied she had some further revenge plans if you outplay her (I think it was a detect thoughts option, but I might remember it wrong). But since nothing ever happens, she is just such a pointless character.

Yeah, another leftover, I guess. I remember that there was talk about revenege. I think it was after we free Duke Ravenguard while Wyll has broken his pact.

I was recently replaying the big choice for Wyll, and I had forgotten how great Lae'zel's comment about Mizora is when I chose to free him. "Chk - the devil Mizora's made herself quite at home, hasn't she? Do make her feel as unwelcome as you can."

And since I listen to my gith best friend, I tried to turn Mizora into stone. Sadly, I'm on HM, so no spell spamming.

I support this. Not only should Wyll make his own decision but he needs more content. Also I don't care for Mizora, she makes me mad and since she doesn't leave camp I will forever stab her every time I pass by her (:

By the way: YOu really should take Lae'zel, Wyll and Gale to the Rosymorn Monastery for a lot of interesting lore dump. Wyll and Gale ask Lae'zel some interesting questions about githyanki and mindflayer and this is one of the rare time, where there are continued discussions between all trhee companions. Definitively the best time, I had with companions there so far.

Yes, they have some interesting chats. Another one is Wyll and Gale talking about the shadowlands.

Coming back to the original topic, I don't think it is as easy as giving Wyll a default decision, that he can fall back on so he can make his own choice.

If you kill Karlach, I think Wyll has a compelling story that is similar to Astarion and Gale's in that he believes he needs the devilish powers to be a hero but at the same time realises he cannot be that hero as long as he is tied to the hells. If you talk to him at the party after killing Karlach and receiving Mizora's reward for it, he is in anguish over how many innocents he might have unknowingly killed for Mizora before. The theme of receiving a reward for a wicked deed comes up again in Act 2, when you can get an excellent rapier for freeing a devil, a thing that stands against all that Wyll wants the Blade to be. His dialogue after Elminster visits the party at the beginning of act 2 foreshadows the choice he has to make:


Wyll is of course not willing to die for Mystra's forgiveness, but Mystra's forgiveness does not matter to him. It is his father, that he is willing to throw his life and soul away for. And it is the ideals that he lists, that he does not and did not fully trust in. If he had, he would not have accepted Mizora's deal to become the singular tragic hero to save the Gate at the cost of his own freedom, but would have humbly alarmed the city. (The whole thing about devil deals in the game is that they seem like the only option, but if you have hope you can find another way - like Hope who did just that.)

So when the time comes to choose between his father and his soul, in order to give a compelling conclusion to his narrative, a discussion of theses topics would be needed in order to sway Wyll to one side or the other and instil him with faith in his own ideals.

This gets more complicated when you add Karlach to the mix, because with her in the party, all of this gets reduced down to Mizora being a meanie and all the nuance and character development for Wyll gets lost.

As for Wyll being a moraliser, when asked about his opinion on matters, he usually falls back to morality tales (e.g. after meeting Raphael), quotes his father or makes general statements of what would be the right thing to do.

I wish,Wyll could have had those talks with us tbh. Shadowheart can show us flashbacks, I don't know, how often the topic of Cazador came up with Astarion, to name the two most popular companions. So yes, I would love to have Wyll tell me about his doubts and wishes more and maybe have a flashback about his situation with the Tiamat cult. Someone wrote an idea for a continuation on that and I begged them to make a fanfic out of it, because it was so cool.

I don't see Wyll as moralising. Yes, he likes his little stories and he has his moral codex but he is pretty critical of himself and even gives approval, if you call him out. I think him quoting his father shows, that he does miss him.

I very much agree. Wyll has the outlines of a fascinating story and character, but there is too little of it actually shown to us in the game itself. We have to read between the lines to understand him better, when really he needs to have more meaningful conversations with the player about himself. While I'm not sure how feasible that is for Larian to add at this point, I very much do wish Wyll was more fleshed out.

I mean he does tell you about it already, but it's a bit of a shame that you don't have a climatic conversation about ending the pact or not with him, when Mizora pressures him. It just goes straight to picking one of the options for him without any kind of conversation about the advice you give him and his feelings in regards to it. I am not expecting Boat-scene levels of intricacies but something would be nice.

I'd never thought about how this reaction reflected Wyll's own situation. Very interesting. As an aside, I do like Wyll's reaction to Mystra's orders. It's the same basic points as Lae'zel gives, and I love her reaction too. Coincidentally, they are the only two I can get reactions from here, when I play as Gale.

I think like with the other companions he should at least have a default decision without the MC's input, as I'm sure others have said. If he was allowed to make his own choice imo there's no way he wouldn't choose to save his father over himself. I've always told him to end the deal but I don't believe it's what he would choose on his own, and I think it would make more sense as a persuasion option. Then again maybe this is an intentional characterization decision for him? That he's so unsure of what to do in the moment that he in a sense lets someone else choose for him, or at least follows whatever advice they offer.

Even if the writer intended for this to represent how unsure Wyll is, this does not mean the protagonist - who is controlled by the player - has to be in agreement. There should be an option to tell Wyll to choose for himself.

At the core this is the same issue as with e.g. Halsin inviting himself into your camp. The writer does not consider what the protagonist's (player's) point of view of the situation might be. And that is not good writing.

I agree. The single worst thing for me about Wyll is that he's unable to make his own choice in this scene. If Larian is winding down on making narrative changes to the game, this is the top thing I would choose to add for Wyll. It's weird that he's the only one without a default choice/agency. And if it is intentional characterization that he's so unsure of himself, there needs to be at least some dialogue lines where he expresses this. Otherwise it looks accidental. And there also needs to be some kind of resolution to his uncertainty, or else it looks like an unfinished story. Given all that would need to be done to make intentional indecisiveness convincing, I think it is easier for Larian to just give him agency.

Totally agree. He needs agency and a bit more meat to the story. I mean he has by far the least content and didn't get any polish to his quest and story in all patches , despite people having asked for it.
Other companions are down to counting kisses, poor Wyll can't even make his own decisions. Not to mention, the lack of reactivity.

I thought there is already an option for Wyll to decide if he wants to save his father or break the contract. If you let him decide it, he will save his father and sign the new eternal contract. I will never let him sell his soul to any devil again. Wyll is basically the only person who keeps facing tough choices that require major sacrifices. He is too good a person to make choices that put himself first, and for that I am unapologetically interfering for sure. I have to, or this good man never gets a break in his life. To me, Wyll making his decision equals to Wyll sacrificing himself for others again, so I am not sure if this redundant option is really that necessary.

Also, during the conversation, we will be convincing Wyll, not speaking directly to Mizora for Wyll. We suggest to him what to choose, then he tell Mizora. For me, by the time this happens, Wyll is already deeply in love with my character. He is the only one I will romance in all my play throughs. I have a very specific type. Lol. I don't think it's that bad for a romantic partner to have a say in this scene if we plan to share the rest of our lives. If you don't romance him, it is super easy to max out his approval in a good or non-evil run. High approval means you are really good friends. It is natural to consult and listen to a good friend or someone you admire.

I had the scene not long ago and he looks to us expectantly to decide. While I could live with something along 'What do you think? I could use someadvice here.' from Wyll and then, if his approval is high enough, he follows our advice, I could most certainly live with that. But I feel, like we just decide that for him.

And I agree that making tough choices for the better of others and in doing so making his own life worse is kind of Wylls thing. I don't say, he never made his own decisions, in fact, I'd say, he is one of the most mature ones in decision making among the companions.

Hugely agree with OP. The first time I played I thought it was so strange that everyone was looking to the PC for his decisions. I get it's an RPG. I'm flashing on choices we can make to sway people like Leliana in Dragon Age, or Garrus in ME. But still, somehow with Wyll it feels so odd and different. Like...it's not us trying to help them or sway their own choices, but the PC is quite literally given the responsibility of making his decisions. It could've been done better. Give him a stronger sense of his own preferences and desires. Make it a choice for *him.

Tldr; +1 for OP. Give Wyll a stronger feeling of agency.

Plus now his greetings are broken, which is quite frankly a bit annoying.
And I noticed something, don't know, if it is still a thing in patch 7, but just in case, I mention it: Wyll can talk to Florrick about Ansur and gets the book after we talked her out of attacking us, because Mizora poisoned her mind. And then, he has the exact same conversation with his dad: Maybe give at least the option to tell Duke Ravenguard, that we talked to Florrick and she gave us the info and the book. Instead Wyll and PC are making surprised Pikachu faces a second time. It would only need one or two more lines of dialogue.

Speaking of unfortunate patch changes, I was very sad to discover that I can't turn Mizora to stone anymore.

Since Larian has no wish to make a DLC, we should be able to kill Mizora to give Wyll some closure. I always thought, that they were planning to making her a plot point in a DLC or so, together with fixing Karlachs heart, but since that is out the window, it would be nice to get rid of the second pescy cambion in our lifes. I can't see Mizoras fight being as entertaining as Raphaels, but still.