Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Astarion romance improvements

Exactly. So leave it as it is. You chose this path, why do you want everything UA has when you deliberately choose AA? When I choose either one or the other, I do so for the reason to play with that version of Astarion, not to have the other‘s interactions. The developers and writers did this on purpose so just respect their decision. When they reworked the AA kisses, this was already enough resources spent on a game that is not a dating sim nor has Astarion as the main character, just to please the minority of players who wanted it. Sharran Shadowheart has a completely different act 3 scene than selunite Shadowheart, yet no fan is complaining about wanting that scene for selunite shad, because *they are different* and must be treated as such. Otherwise there is no reason to have different versions of the characters in the first place and their companions quests and the choices become unnecessary.



As I am very sure is very much intended. Please stop trying to rewrite everything about AA. I’m sure you’d like to be able to hug him, that’s good for you. The amount of reworks he’s gotten is enough.



Come on, now we are adding entirely new code to the game for a hug? You are very welcome to get the hug mod, hug Astarion as much and anywhere you want. Just please stop making the entire game about Astarion for everyone else.


I beg you, stop trying to rework and rewrite the character you claim to love. You choose this path for a reason, so play with it as it is. Just like all other players play with the choices they make in Astarion and other romances. I’d much rather not go to Avernus, but if my Tav romances Karlach, she is happy to go. This is the consequence of the choices I made, Tav has to go to hell and leave all their friends behind.

The reworked kisses already did a number on a bunch of people. Only because you see support for it here, doesn’t mean the changes were supported generally (see Reddit, there are *good* and *constructive* discussions there, not hate). Not by Astarion / AA haters, mind you, AA fans themselves have spoken out about the changes that already happened. Most were bullied in disgusting ways. If this is what you want to keep happening for a few hugs, man, I don’t know what to tell you. It’s clear people have differing opinions and views of Astarion as a whole and AA specifically, I am not here to change your mind. But please do keep in mind that there are real people suffering, not because „they can’t hug their vampire Hubbie“ but because they are being bullied in vile ways, and personally I find the latter a lot worse. I’d give up all hugs in the game to protect these people.

Astarion in all versions is already a fleshed out and incredibly well written character with much depth. Of course not perfect, but at this point this is really not something we could in good conscience demand from larian regarding this.

It could also be - if you keep his select line in mind and the way the ascended kiss animations end - that he simply does not want to be touched. Just as a thought.

Maybe that's why Spawn Astarion wasn't added kissing in the epilogue? I have various headcanons on this topic. He doesn't like touching in public...


How does the narrative change from adding a hug animation to the only man for evil in the game with whom you can do a romance, which already matches one of the tav ally and lover lines in the epilogue? There were kisses with AA except for patch 6, then there was a Valentine's Day with fear of intimacy, but then the story was brought back according to the original script.

Man, idk look.
The topic seems to be called “suggestions”, can I come to the Spawn thread and say “because of u companions now sympathize with Astarion, it shouldn't be like this, it spoils his story of redemption for the sins he's deserved”, “and now you are also asking for more kisses for Spawn, enough is enough, play as is”. "I beg you to stop trying rework and rewrite the character".

You may be thinking that with a gentle hug from AA, this story won't be what you think it should be. But Tav has a large number of phrases (other than breakup phrases) that are grounded and can be tied to kisses and hugs.

Seems there's some banter contradicting this? Description for this banter is "Astarion Vampire Spawn" and the title specifies it's for act 3, so I'm assuming it's exclusively for Post-ritual Spawn Astarion:


The language here is indeed colorful to say the least but it sounds like he's that kind of person that is annoyingly gratuitous about PDA.

This was the most requested feature in here before patch 6. How is being able to have a romantic interaction with him, just like every other LI does, rewriting him?

I would have even been ok if there was an option to ask for a kiss or hug and Astarion replied that he'd rather wait for the afterparty and flirtatiously hint at other things they could do. There being nothing at all just seems sloppy and neglectful.


Can we keep this thread neutral, informative and focused on constructive feedback for Larian and not stir up new drama here as well?

Because the story is already written. Changing it is re-writing it. The amount of times AA already received changes, you’d think larian would’ve added a hug to the epilogue if they thought it was necessary. Clearly they thought changing the facial expressions in kisses was, so they did it. Like I said, Astarion is already fleshed out and well written. Personally I feel AA also got way more attention from devs than UA already, and his romance is great the way it is. Headcanon one way or the other, the canon romantic interactions with AA are already very good.

It feels weird to be able to hug DJ Shadowheart but not AA. That said, I feel like Astarions romance epilogue doesn't have as "much" to it compared to Selunite Shadowheart, for example. I can't say I'm familiar with the other companion romance epilogues but I've romanced both UA and AA and witnessed my fiance romancing Selune Shadowheart.

This is not changing the story, it's adding a mechanic that already exists in the game. We could kiss him just fine up until this point.

I have a couple of theories too, but to me it also simply seems to be a hugging sort of moment, from the way the conversation flows.

I am familiar with the other epilogue romances so I can confirm Astarion got the short end of the stick here, for sure. Which is rare for him, but it happened nevertheless. Shadowheart (particularly Selunite Shadowheart) happens to have one of the most complete ones though, Gale as well.

Well said, Ametris.

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It's generally pretty uncomfortable when you ask for something nice that has well everyone. But you get hinted\pressed about some "intended ideas", that the player can't touch the character when the player says “my love” and agrees "how we flourish". This literally contradicts any "intended ideas", and if it was intended, it contradicts the ides earlier and the ideas in the 7 patch.
Nah, Tav can touch Astarion. Tav can touch Astarion and look at him lovingly in the Path of Evil (Ascension) - this is according to Larian' writing. On release and in patch 7 in the new evil endings where Larian added an option and animation for it.

Based on one of the quotes by AA in the game
Astarion: I wish we could retreat into our palace already, and spend a decade in each other's arms.

as well as this interaction


I don't think it's out of character for AA to be comfortable hugging a romanced player. Maybe a different animation as to what Spawn has but being able to hug him doesn't feel out of character to me. I definitely think an option to hug AA would be nice, as well as options to kiss both UA and AA in their romanced epilogues.

This. He's happy with Tav no matter what choice they make during the final battle. It looks odd now that you can kiss him in one ending and in the other not.


I agree and thanks for the examples. Another line when he talks about being in each other's arms is when you question him about "flourishing": 'Look at us. We share a palace, share power, live lives eternal in each other's arms. What more could anyone want?'

I qoute everything you said!
I should say that I've never felt so much the need to hug AA during the final party, as this phrase that says "I have power but it would be nothing without you. You complete me" is worth more than a thousand hugs to me.
Of course, a hug would be the icing on the cake to crown the moment... Even better would be a kiss! Otherwise I thought: what would you say about a hand kiss? The TAV that takes Astarion's hand and kisses it as a sign of affection and devotion? A sort of reference at the night which Astarion transforms the TAV.

Totally agree. Trying to impose on the player how they should feel about a character is probably the worst possible way to ruin a story with bad writing. But I think the hugging and kissing is just fanservice, and like some other aspects of the game are still unfinished, so too are some of the romance lines. Many other games don't have any visualized hugs and kisses in romance at all and it has no effect on the story. The fact that Larian made such fanservice is great, I remember my delight about it, it felt like some kind of magic when I was able to kiss Astarion for the first time after the Act 2 confession (back then there were still pretty simple and modest kisses, before patch 5). In patch 5, I also had great delight after replacing the former kisses with their improved version. But unfortunately, it wasn't possible to make this fanservice perfect. I think it's unfair to bypass any particular group of fans when it comes to fanservice. After all, if there were no hugs and kisses with the companions in the epilogue at all, there probably wouldn't be any questions about it either. But if you're doing it for one, do it for all. After all, the developers were not lazy to do a friendly hugs, which, in my opinion, just could be postponed and first properly finish the romance for all companions.

Yeah, the kiss in the new evil ending is perfect. Why not just duplicate it in both endings? After all, the player's motivation to get through the evil ending should be according to their roleplay, not “I'm going to go kill everyone, or else my Astarion won't kiss”. The story should exist for the sake of the story, and fanservice to please the players for nothing.


I choose Astarion and Astarion chooses Ascension, I want to play realistically and immersively, not divide a living and unique personality into some “versions”. Just because Astarion chooses Ascension in no way means that Astarion chooses to refuse my hugs and kisses. If he wanted that, he would have ended the relationship by getting Ascension, rather than wanting an eternal bond and “Aeterna Amantes. Lovers forever” while wishing that his ‘eternal beloved’ wouldn't touch him ‘until the world falls down’. As for the authors, Stephen Rooney would hardly be opposed to displays of love for “his boy” on the part of the player, nor would he be opposed to the player receiving joy, “ evil and fun” while in a romantic relationship with Astarion. Those authors currently working in Larian - I don't think they wish the romance in the game to be bad in any way either. Lawrence Schick, if I'm not mistaken, is now the Principal Narrative Designer and under his leadership, great improvements have already been made to Astarion's romance - the player characters in the kissing scenes have had their facial expressions fixed, beautiful smiles made. About the waste of resources - this is certainly understandable, but we should also not forget that Larian themselves decided to spend resources on the kisses of patch 6, they could perfectly well have stopped in this fanservice on patch 5, the first time they did badly, and then they fixed it. Fixing mistakes is a valid and worthwhile thing to do, but it's something studios should do. BG3 can well be called an RPG with elements (and not small elements) of a dating simulator, the game contains a lot of sex scenes, including those that have no special story value, but exist just to entertain players - the Emperor, Mizora, brothel, love triangles, the way the character of Halsin was changed as a result (compared to EA, and yes, not all players were “entertained” by it, but it is also part of the “dating simulator”). Everywhere is a dating simulator, only Astarion can't be touched. Doesn't make a lot of sense.

And I'm curious, it turns out for you, the companion quests and choices matter solely for the sake of different versions of romance? And how is that not a “dating simulator”? So not letting Astarion Ascend is necessary for him to act like a “good boy” and satisfy the player's wishes regarding their ideas of proper romantic behavior? What about the 7000 lives, the morality, the “diabolical ritual”, the “evil and violence”? Which is important - this or calling Tav a “pet”? An evil couple remains “evil” no matter how much they adore each other. And they may more than adore each other. I personally feel that “good” choices are made for the sake of “goodness” rather than appropriate romantic behavior.


The choice to go to Avernus with Karlach is a plot choice, plus Tav-friend can also go to Avernus with Karlach, it's not a matter of romantic fanservice. And it's completely realistic - Karlach needs to return to Avernus or she'll die, and her lover needs to help her and follow her. Astarion clearly doesn't need to not be hugged, on the contrary, he needs love. And after the Ascension, he needs it. This is not a consequence of the choices I made, simply because it is not realistic.


All his lines, all his possessive impulses, his very desire for 'Mine forever', 'don't go far away', even the looks, the way the Ascended Astarion looks at Tav, don't add up to this. 'Look at us. We share a palace, share power, live lives eternal in each other's arms. What more could anyone want?' That someone in the writers wanted the player not to touch Astarion is believable, and in trying to create that feeling too. I understand what you're saying, of course, it was that feeling of rejection, and that was what hurt me after patch 6, not the whole “you can't part with him”, “he's controlling” and so on. But that doesn't sound like Astarion himself at all.


Haha, that's a charming line, thank you! It's really in the style of Astarion!


Yes, the hand kiss is beautiful! I'd love to support it! <3

This specific scenario is actually possible thanks to a Vampire Lord Astarion - Epilogue Party Affection Dialog mod on Nexus! Both kissing and hugging is possible.

Video for reference:

Oh yeah, this is a wonderful mod! How much better the epilogue immediately becomes! I how perfectly chosen the lines for Astarion are. Yes, it's just perfect for him.

I am not sure, if I understand you properly. The "Don't touch me" line when selecting him has been in the game since release and it's pretty much in line with what he tells you in act 2. I was more surprised that UA and the player are kissing each other so much according to Lae'zel's comment - but then, Lae'zel is very uncomfortable with PDA in general. (You have to intimidate or persuade her to get kisses from her.) I guess, that's at least a hint that the graveyard date might have gone well.

I agree. Spawn Astarion already has much less content than AA, so Larian should add to Spawn Astarion first to even things out before adding anything else to AA. That way they are not bypassing spawn Astarion fans. Shadowheart has an equal amount of kisses for both her paths. Improvements I want to see with Spawn Astarion are:

• The same number of unique-to-him kisses as AA has
• More epilogue conversation about what he and player have been up to together
• Repeatable epilogue hug
• Let us run after Astarion on the docks and cast Darkness if someone in the party has it
• Better reaction to that infamous Durge scene
• More responses when answering what Tav/Durge is to him, to be equal with AA

That is your speculation on what the writers might think, not fact. So please don't present it as factual. For all we know, Rooney could be uphappy with the changes. We don't know for sure what they think if they don't tell us. I don't see the new expressions as "fixed" or "beautiful". I find them extremely triggering, as do other people. Seeing the new faces threw me into a traumatic depressive episode that STILL hasn't ended. If Larian was going to mess with the expressions, they should have added a choice between both sets. That would very much improve this romance for me.


I do view it as romantic fanservice that goes against AA's character. You said yourself AA is possessive. I also think that, and that's why I don't believe he would realistically want to let Tav/Durge disappear for 6 months. I think he would miss them too much and want them to remain by his side.