Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Disappointed in Larian

Why would Larian do that?
They know that fixing all the problems in BG3 would be a gigantic pile of work, which they would not even get paid for.
Because if they made a definitive edition people would expect substabtial changes to Act 3.
And with the game getting constant praises because of bear sex and horny companions there is also no need for them to invest any work in order to save their reputation.

So they abandoned BG3 and will never go back.

While I have no insight into Larian's contract with WotC, I am highly doubtful that they wouldn't be in control of BG3. They did start working on potential follow up content, so it doesn't seem WorC would prevent them from doing more in ther world if they wished to do. While there was no doubt some business agreement, I doubt Larian was on WotC's payroll. BG3 would never be worked on for so long if WotC was one footing the bill.

Because they've done it with their past games that received praise (albeit nowhere near the praise they received for BG3) and substantially reworked the final act in the definitive edition. They put in a lot of work without charging for it. As I understand it this was done at the time they released a console version so the company would stand to make at least some money from it, but there would be ways for them to profit from a definitive edition for BG3 as well. For one people would pay if they charged, and while I know they've been against charging for improvements to their games in the past I feel that if they added enough content charging would be justified. Maybe they could add Ketheric back in as a potential companion or add one of the locations they originally wanted to include but ultimately didn't.

I'll also say that they already added a playable epilogue free of charge after release when they received criticism for removing the original epilogue. To your point I believe this is because of the extent of criticism they received for it, but that's why I think the issues with the final act and the desire for a definitive addition that addresses them are worth continuing to express. I don't see it happening anywhere in the near future, but maybe they'll consider returning to the game at some point.

And in terms of the praise the game received, it wasn't for the bear sex or "horny companions." The game has received praise for the writing, particularly for the companions, the acting, the amount of content included in the base game, the amount of permutations and player freedom, etc.

I think they were working on the follow up content before they ended their partnership with wotc and handed over the rights to the companions. I would love some clarity regarding what they're allowed to do now. But I don't see how they would be able to make changes or additions to a world and to characters that are part of the IP they no longer hold rights to. It's their game and I imagine they're able to make changes that don't significantly alter the IP, and wotc will allow that to maintain a good relationship with them. But I think there's a reason they announced the decision not to add new narrative content for the companions or world at the same time they announced ending the partnership with wotc.

Personally I would really love a Definitive Edition. Was pretty much the only thing I was excitingly hoping for to come.

• Quality of life additions (like more intuitive UI, better inventory management, more fluid controls, more keyboard shortcut combinations to reduce the amounts of clicking etc)
• Improvements to existing content (like implementing reactions where the story currently lacks them, ensuring quests feel more dynamic when their sequences aren't followed to the letter, more fluid gameplay and overall control, better appliance system of dyes (it's quite wonky), all equipment slots having a toggle to visually hide them - especially capes etc)
• Restored cut content that underwent minor revisions (by that I mean scenes that didn't make the cut but with minor revisions could make it back without an issue. Larian's current MO is to just entirely scrap a scene even though 90% of it perfectly fits the lore)
• Additional minor content (such as adding a bit more content to certain companions to make them more fleshed out; primarily Minthara, Halsin, Wyll and slightly Karlach)
• Optimizations and bug fixes (like making the torch slot act properly so it stops shuffling abilities all over the place, ensuring all gameplay mechanics work properly, ensuring all multiclass mechanics function properly with certain combinations, making heavily scripted areas not act so stubbornly scripted - like the Moonrise Prison where its Warden and guards break universally established gameplay rules etc)

Basically to cover up most of the story holes, fill up content where it's lacking and improve the overall gameplay experience. There's a lot of room for improvement that could make the experience drastically better.

This is my first glimpse at the reactions of the "forum people" to the game and I have to say I'm really taken aback. I've played through the game twice and my reaction was being utterly stunned at how much more detailed, reactive, and complex the entire game was (Act 3 included) than anything else I've ever played, and wondering what kind of sorcery allowed a finite team of human beings to put that much work into a game without suffering some sort of mental breakdown, even in the number of years spent.

Then I come here and see people focusing on what *wasn't* in the game and - based on that - declaring it a failure and I just...

If I were the folks working at Larian I'd dump the whole thing and run, too, just to put it behind me and not wake up every day feeling a vast sense of futility. I can't imagine spending that mamy years of my life doing 10x more work than other developers do... putting way much more of my heart and soul into my game than anyone had any right to expect given the precedents set by other gaming companies... and then being drowned in feedback that I didn't do enough. Yikes.

I'll allow that maybe the game only looked flawlessly polished to me because I tend to take more the "expected" route - I like stories of good people trying to do good things and may only try an evil playthrough when I'm utterly sick of all the good permutations. That said, no one is entitled to infinite variations on a story in a game. It's physically impossible. It seems like a lot of people don't understand how many hours are involved in just "one tiny fix" everyone thinks should have been done instantly on command.

I also understand that "Can't you just fix this one thing that is super important to me" comes from passion, but I'm just really disheartened that this level of passion would default toward criticism rather than support.

I'm a novelist, and to stay sane I don't read my reviews at all. Once the book is published, it's done, there's nothing I can do about its flaws, and thank God. "Fanfic culture" has changed the way audiences respond to art, expecting it to be tailored to their specific preferences rather than accepting that just because they don't like something about a piece of art it's bad, sloppy, or "unfinished." I can't imagine the monster I'd turn into if every reader review was presented to me as "feedback" meaning I would have to rewrite a portion of my books to please that segment of readers. As novelists we have one boss, the editor, and we do what they say to make the book better and then it's done. The toll of having to constantly, endlessly be told "your work isn't finished, get back in there" must be excruciating.

If any of the devs are reading this: please know that there are at least some folks out there (possibly a very large number) who don't feel your game is "unfinished" or "sloppy" or anything like that - who understand that it is simply finite in its ability to be executed by mortals, like any work of art. There are plenty of people who are well aware that they have never seen BG3's like for detail, reactivity, complexity, and immersion, and likely only will again if they live long enough to see your next project.

Well said, friend. Participating in forum discussions for long takes its toll, there are members here who actively spent hours of their free time in order to give feedback at the earlier development stages. Not every piece of their vision came true, therefore the bitterness or disappointment. But to be fair, this thread was created in good faith, the OP made it clear that this is not a hate thread. And critique here and there can also help a developer to stay in top-shape.

I mean, this is a feedback forum. Feedback is typically used as a basis for improvement, so criticism is to be expected. Larian has talked about how much feedback from players during early access helped them improve upon the game during development.

Unfortunately there's usually some hateful comments in any forum thread. But there's a difference between talking about the flaws of something with the intent to be constructive and bashing or hating something. I've said several times that BG3 is one of my favorite games (I've played through it at least 12 times) and I believe it deserved the awards and acclaim it received. That being said I also think the 3rd act is constructed poorly when compared to the rest of the game, for several reasons. But I don't think it's beyond repair were they to work on a definitive edition as they have in the past. Which is why I think it's worth discussing through a critical lens.

I absolutely agree that at one point you have to let go of a creative process and put a fork in it. I guess in a way, many of us are gaming chair actors who want to play their role and thus ask for script rewrites because some things don't match our own ideas or vision of our character.

I confess that I was devastated when they said there would be no more continuation or DLC, because I loved all the companions and I wish I could follow more of their stories. And at the same time living my character's story. I currently have 1400 hours of play, it's my and my husband's favorite pastime.

Following more of their stories would be great but I understand why Larian is happy with the companion arcs as they are. The epilogue fixed the problem I had with how abruptly things ended for them. Knowing it's the end for these characters makes me very sad, but I'd be okay with it if I thought this was the right place to leave the game. Most of the issues I have with their content is in relation to the problems in the third act in general. The lack of reactivity and camp scenes when compared to the first two acts is pretty glaring to me. Although I do love what is there.

Well, in the recent PAX panel, Swen himself went and addressed online discussions exactly like this and confirmed that they see these things, but regardless are deciding that they have no desire or intent to make any further changes to the game, and are moving on from it entirely. This is obviously a bummer for all of us who are still very unsatisfied with the state of the game, especially seeing as Patch 7 has only gave people more reasons to be disappointed as the evil endings are a really big let-down after how much they were hyped. So I just want to say two things to conclude this discussion, as stewing on our disappointment and shouting feedback into a void isn't going to accomplish anything from here on.

1) Again, as the title of the post has made clear, I'm forever going to be disappointed in Larian for calling it quits on development of the game. I obviously have massive respect for them for being able to admit that they simply don't have passion for the game anymore and would rather do something else, but it's really sad to see developers get tired of their own game as a player who is only really here as part of the DnD fanbase and not the Larian fanbase as a whole. Seeing more updates to this game or news of a released enhanced edition in a few years would excite me far more than any news about whatever Larian has planned next (although I'm sure it will be spectacular, whatever it is). I still hold on to a little hope that someday, they'll come back and revisit the game (I would gladly pay full price for an enhanced edition), but it really seems like that's never going to be the case. The age of BG3 has sadly come to an end.

2) Just because Larian is never going to make the changes people want, doesn't mean that we can never see these changes. I really hope that the modding community for this game explodes in popularity and pushes the tools at their disposal beyond what Larian could imagine them being used for. I know it's incredibly difficult, but I think there are definitely ambitious and capable modders in this community who can put their minds towards working with the games script and engine to make changes to the narrative content and add new cinematics to create an alternate version of the story. I would love to get into modding myself and I definitely plan on learning how the tools work so that I can tinker with things for my own satisfaction. One day, I hope that there will be a sort of community-made "Definitive Edition" of BG3 that represents the culmination of everybody's work and tells the full, original story that Larian had. Obviously for legal reasons, these would have to be unvoiced dialogues and cutscenes, but I'd still rather see them without any actors than have to deal with the frustration of wondering about what could have been.

I love this game and I'm so sad to see it's life cycle end in such an unsatisfactory way, but it's been awesome to know that there are others who feel the same way and want to see the game supported (by the community instead of the developers) for years to come. Love yall.

Well said Henry!

I haven't seen the panel myself yet, but after witnessing the endings and reading your post, Henry, I'm fully assured in my decision to not pre-order the next game and wait at least 6 months after the release to read about the state of the game. I've never seen game developers say that they're simply tired of their own game, and it's not encouraging me to trust this won't happen again.

Hopefully the modders do their magic and give us a good amount of improvements we'd like to see.

Cheers!

Sure but that’s because a lot of game production is revenue driven and publishers will always prefer milking existing IP, rather than trying something new and risky. „We don’t want to keep doing the same thing over Andover again” is an understandable sentiment, and tends to be a mantra of some of my favourite studios.

On a side note, Larian moving on from BG IP was never in regards of the support of the main game. The initial plan was to make new content (expansion?), so state of the base game would likely not be that much different than it is now. And BG3 is still being worked on, a year after it’s initial release.

I also really hope that modders will bring the things we miss so dearly. For larger projects, communities of fans will certainly have to work together, people like Crimsom who can tell wonderful stories and write texts, fans who are good at 3D and/or graphics or can create new postures in 3D for new scenes and others who are good at coding. We've seen that Ascended Astarion, for example, has very creative fans, so I had great hopes. There is great potential. Don't let your heads down.

They already have a track of record of releasing unpolished act 3 in their games. This time however, there was no definitive edition and we got to hear how they're excited to leave their game in a messy state. We had to wait a year for actual evil endings and we'll never have epilogues for them. I'm seriously worried about the next game.

I’m not sure if this is a controversial opinion, but I think that studios like Larian need to be very careful about claiming that their approach to development puts passion before profit. They are a company after all and need to make money, and this is doubly true with how much their studio has grown in size after the success of BG3. Just because they are super passionate about their next project does not mean it’s guaranteed to be profitable, even if it’s met with amazing critical reception. Bungie studios received great feedback for the most recent expansion to Destiny 2, but that didn’t save them from the fact that they were bleeding money, leading to almost half of the studio being laid off or moved to other companies.

There’s definitely a part of this community that has the mindset of “I’ll get Larian’s next game no matter what because I love BG3” but that isn’t representative of the general gaming population. People have learned their lesson about blindly trusting developers. CDPR was seen as infallible after the success of Witcher 3, but the release of Cyberpunk showed everybody the importance of being cautious. The last thing I want to see from Larian after making this awesome game would be for them to put out their next project only for it to not sell very well and force them to downsize their studio that grew so much because of Baldur’s Gate.

As crazy as it may sound, I would much rather see a company put 80% passion into a series that people are ravenously consuming that prints money for them so they can keep working, than I would like to see them put 100% passion into something that nobody but them actually cares about and causes their studio to fail.

Really well said. I haven't watched the panel but it's good to know for sure that they're aware of the issues and have decided to move on anyway. I still love the game and while I recognize that Larian's passion for it is what made it what it is, it feels wrong that they don't intend to return to it after some time has passed to rectify it's shortcomings. Maybe one day their passion will be reignited, and they'll give BG3 the same care they gave their past games post-release. But their admission that they're happy to permanently leave a game in a less than satisfactory state does make me cautious about getting so invested in their future projects.

I admit that as an artist this is hard for me to understand because even when my inspiration or passion for something is gone, I will go back and improve on it as the years go by, oftentimes more than once. If I truly care about something the drive will return because I want it to be as good as it can be. Then again I guess it's different for everyone. I have a friend who like Swen will put something out of their mind forever when they're ready to move on to their next project. But even they agree (in regards to BG3) that when your project is a monetized product that needs work as BG3 does, it's incumbent upon a company to remedy that.

I had more hope and excitement about what the modding community would be able to accomplish before Larian described what they would and would not be offering the community. It seems the tools they're releasing are pretty limited, and are primarily meant to be a way for console users to access mods. While I respect and appreciate the work that will go into that, it won't allow for the kind of improvements I had hoped it would. Modders are very talented and while I'm sure they will continue to create tools for us to use, for me this is just another disappointing decision on Larian's part. Because they've said the modding support is them handing off the game to the community. So to me it's just another concerning decision that's reflective of a dismissive mindset.

I think the point about CDPR and what people learned from that is pretty salient. The work they put into creating a lasting legacy for TW3 with their commitment to improving on it for years, and with their creation of two DLCs that would cement the game's reputation as a true masterpiece lent them a considerable amount of trust within the gaming community. The passion put into that game is beyond clear, and they still missed the mark by miles with the release of Cyberpunk. Thankfully they've improved upon that game significantly over the years, but it's a relevant example of the fact that no matter how much passion and dedication was given to a past project, it doesn't guarantee the next project will meet that standard.

So Larian's decision to move on from BG3 completely when by their own admission it's not all that it could be and still has notable shortcomings, as well as their dismissive comments and mindset regarding this, doesn't speak well to what can be expected of their future projects. At least not to me.

I realize this sounds harsh and I don't want to discredit or disregard the aspects of BG3 that I believe are truly impressive and worthy of praise, because there are many. But I'm speaking about decisions I'm critical of here.

(Also want to add that my comments on TW3 are not about whether or not someone personally likes or dislikes the game, but about how the game is viewed and spoken of in general and what CDPR did to establish the game's legacy. And how I think that's relevant to Larian's mindset and decisions about BG3, what it means for the game, and what we can expect from their future projects.)