Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Please let us keep our stories with Ascended Astarion

Having seen the updated expressions for Tav in the kiss cinematics with Ascended Astarion, I would like to request the original expressions to be added back as an option for those of us who found them more fitting, and/or less uncomfortable or triggering than the new ones.

For a year now since release, it has always been possible to play Tav as scared, unsure, or feeling trapped in their relationship with Ascended Astarion. Just to give a few examples: They can express regret directly after Ascension ("Not sure I like the sound of that"/"You're starting to scare me"), apprehension at the way he talks to them afterwards ("I'm not your pet"/"It doesn't sound like a joke, it sounds like you mean it") and reluctance to accept the condition of becoming his spawn. In the scene where he turns them, Tav can initially refuse to kneel, after which the only way to continue the relationship is to "give in" to his demands (as stated in the dialogue choice). Even the morning after being turned, Tav can express regret ("I suppose it cannot be undone now"). They can be intimidated out of a breakup attempt ("Sorry! I didn't mean it"), and his response to that ("No, I thought not. I don't want to hear anything like that from you again, my pet. You know I adore you terribly") is even specified as sounding "slightly threatening/abusivey" in the script.

None of this is at all in accordance with Tav's new expressions.

Maybe more neutral looking expressions could have worked for everyone. But having Tav close their eyes in ecstasy, at having their throat grabbed out of nowhere, is not neutral. Neither is the grin after their face is shoved away. It forces a personality type and emotions onto the player's character that contradict many of the possible dialogue choices, as mentioned above.

Restricting roleplay like this is not an improvement. The original complaint about Patch 6 was exactly this too, that some players felt it contradicted their roleplay and changed what they had imagined Tav and their relationship with Ascended Astarion to be like before. They have something that suits them better now, but does that really have to come at the cost of taking the original away from others? Please consider adding the original expressions back, maybe as locked behind a new dialogue flag on one of the options above.

Please, for those of us who liked the story being told as it was, allow us an option to keep it. And our characters as we have played them before. I don't just speak for myself when I say they were important.

I will add, after some experiences with discussing this topic in other threads: Please do not assume malicious intentions or otherwise horrible motives on my part for requesting this change, or of anyone else who may feel the same way. I love this character and the story I experienced with him. It is incredibly important to me, and it would really hurt to lose it like this after a year.

Seconding this. I play both AA and UA, I love both, but this new changed kissing animations don't suit my AA playthrouh at all! I was going for a tragic romance, like my Tav noticed this change, but it's far too late. I'm not playing AA for a happy ending. I play it for the tragedy of this toxic and abusive relationship, as was intended by Larian's original vision. When I want soft happy smiles and consent, I play UA romance. These new animations make my Tav look like a completely different person.This is not my Tav anymore!

Now, I don't want Larian to spend their time on fixing these animations yet again. (Seriously, UA only got one new kiss in Patch 6 and they still spent time on AA AGAIN, instead of, you know, evening this out a bit? If Gale and Shadowheart got 8 kisses (4 normal + 4 final for Gale), it's not a big ask for UA to get the base 4 everyone else got. Seems odd to add several variants of the same event for Gale which only triggers ONCE in a playthrough, while leaving UA the only one with 1 new kiss?) I'm with OP: voting to make an option available for the player to be able to choose if their Tav is happy or afraid of AA.

Larian, please. I miss these kisses so much.



Please give us a way to get them back in patch 8 without mods, even if its a branching dialogue flag! I HATE the new Patch 7 kiss expressions. They feel like cheap fan-service.

The old ones perfectly complimented the darker, risk taking tone of the cycle of abuse narrative.

Side Note: I was temporarily banned from the onlyfangs subreddit for making a post saying I missed the old kisses, so I temporarily started this community since I have no safe place to express sadness and disappointment. Share it or join in. I'll do my best to moderate it and remove bad actors.

Not sure how this fares in terms of spamming the boards, since there are already a couple of similar threads- but yeah, as always, I agree they've gone too far in the opposite direction, which kind of defeats the point of the big issue with removing agency, when it comes to more extreme actions like these and the fact there's a pretty clear precedent for that kind of dynamic being possible here.
I really do think the rest of the new animations are fine (especially seeing them on a bunch of different faces) but the eyes closed big smile at the throat grab is just really bad, and the smile at being slapped/pushed is also not great either (while the smile in the kneeling kiss is just kind of goofy, this one I find to be offputting). I've said this before, but the turning night facial animations (in which I think Tav is explicitly enjoying everything) somehow have way more neutral expressions, that one could argue are /too/ neutral in that context.

I'm also surprised that they look kind of rushed- at the beginning of some actions Tav's face will do a quick shift between the original animations to the new ones that doesn't seem intentional on Larian's part (because it looks weird, and doesn't seem to portray anything in particular), it rather looks like they just did a quick tweak.

I echo most of what is already said on this thread and just wanted to add another voice to it. Making ANYTHING means you can't please everyone and just as others said no malicious intent is meant for those with different interpretations of AA than my own. My own two cents- AA is designed to be a villain and has been since launch. He's received more kisses than SA and those kisses were obviously meant to convey a very specific dynamic and were done very well to create the "villain" feeling that is supported through dialogue throughout the game. What's jarring is that the new scenes, beyond looking a bit...broken, remove the dynamic that's been conveyed for a year. These expressions are not neutral. They almost rival AA.

This is a duplicate thread; there's another one already open where the same points have been made.

Given that the previous threads were pre-patch 7 talking about what people did/didn’t want to see and this one is now reflecting on what the patch actually contained, I think there is a case for ONE new thread criticising the new animations. Though to avoid having the same discussion in two places I have now locked the pre-patch thread.

It is a bit of a grey area, but I’ll allow this thread to stand as long as it’s kept friendly, everyone respects others’ character preferences and both views for and against the new animations are welcome here. And as long as it is kept on topic and doesn’t result in repetitive posts from the same users flooding the forum - and fair warning that behaviour likely to get this thread locked will also likely get the guilty parties warnings!

(I should add that I don’t want to shut down friendly debate, and if people ask questions or specifically comment on points in your posts then you should feel free to reply/expand/clarify. The point at which constructive discussion becomes circular and lastwordism can admittedly be a bit vague, but hopefully with good faith and tolerance of other viewpoints we can stay the right side of that blurry line.)

No, it isn't. Neutral expressions still leave the option of treating these scenes as scenes that are

*** WARNING: sensitive content (may contain a discussion of violence, abuse, SA related to a BG3 scene) this content might not be suitable for all audiences. Trigger warning***

In patch 7, thankfully, Tav's facial expressions in their romantic kisses with the Ascended Astarion are now finally more or less in line with Astarion's story, and also represent an example of beautiful, passionate and consensual D/s scenes. I sincerely congratulate all members of the BDSM community who play this game on the fact that D/s romance is now represented in such a wonderful game as Baldur's Gate 3! <3


Yes, changes in facial expressions,

*** WARNING: sensitive content (may contain a discussion of violence, abuse, SA related to a BG3 scene) this content might not be suitable for all audiences. Trigger warning***

Is an improvement and that improvement is more than worth it, and fans of what can't be named on Larian's official forum can install mods for the sake of their roleplay. Like those players who don't want to play D/s scenes, and have been playing with a mod for a while now, giving them the opportunity for the classic romance they've had in the game since release, not between two patches.


There are players who on some resources frankly and without hiding their motives, stated that they like these animations, that they fit their tastes in terms of animated 3D content, praised Larian for these animations, etc., but they are not going to demand the inclusion of these animations back into the game, and have long since taken these animations and are discussing future mods for their Tav/DU, including the ability to use these animations for their characters in relation to other romantic companions. You won't lose what you love, the corresponding mods are guaranteed to come out very soon.


These expressions are in keeping with the concept of Astarion's real author, Stephen Rooney (“evil and fun”). As well as the vast number of examples of dark romances in other games, film and literature where two villains adore each other. “Specific dynamics” is not appropriate for games aimed at a mass audience and should have appropriate ratings and warnings, as well as a clear indication of genre, so as not to traumatize people and fool that majority of players who buy the game as a classic RPG.

I'm glad Larian corrected the mistake and I'm sure the scenes

*** WARNING: sensitive content (may contain a discussion of violence, abuse, SA related to a BG3 scene) this content might not be suitable for all audiences. Trigger warning***

They won't appear in BG3 again. Also, I'm glad I got a new life experience through this game, and if ever in any other game someone wants to show me

*** WARNING: sensitive content (may contain a discussion of violence, abuse, SA related to a BG3 scene) this content might not be suitable for all audiences. Trigger warning***

In such a situation, I will submit an appropriate report to the ESRB, leaving it to the competent organization to decide whether such scenes are permissible in that particular game.

A relationship Tav can be intimidated out of leaving, and in the end can't get out of even if they want to, would not be an accurate or respectful representation of real life BDSM dynamics either way, no matter how happy Tav looks in the kisses. Equating it to that is much more disrespectful and harmful to the community than what was depicted before and never presented as a representation of healthy BDSM.


Sorry, are you implying that people the new faces are triggering for must use the word in an inflationary way? If so, that's very insensitive. I told you this before, you don't have to understand or share someone else's triggers to respect them. You may not understand how the new expressions can be triggering, but that does not mean we're lying about it or exaggerating.

How absurd that two people have created this thread again, I think it's the 3rd one already.

“My Tav is afraid of him,” so she asks AA to kiss her. This is the first thing you do when you are afraid of your abuser. You walk up and say, “I want to kiss you.” Obviously you want to say, “I'm leaving you,” but you're afraid to, so a “kiss me” comes off your lips. Larian, please, you can see the obvious flaws in this logic. Kissing is not what these Tavs need.

I'm so afraid of AA that I can't walk away from him even though I want to, but I need the frightened faces of fear before I ask for a kiss myself.



Your Tav has plenty of time to break up with AA before it's too late in the very finals. And after the finale, there's no kissing at all.



The kisses that appeared in the game on Valentine's Day are fanservice. All players got their fanservice with happy faces, and only AA fans should have gotten the cautionary narrative, of course. For February 14, AA fans should get a personalized cautionary narrative about the cycle of violence. Evil Shadowheart killed her parents - her fans don't need moral lessons, only AA fans. Minthara is obsessed with power and can't be fixed? Her fans don't need moral lessons. Only. AA. Fans.

Except the frightened expressions are what cheap fanservice is, taken from fanfics and headcanons.


This is the third time this thread has been created, and its creators write literally the same thing in each of their posts. The same talking points over and over again, despite having been challenged a thousand times in previous threads, are now right there in the thread header.

I really agree with this. I don’t really think Larian wanted to create such a divide over fan-service kisses that were released on Valentine’s Day. Larian used the kneeling Ascended Astarion kiss with Bloodweave with a caption of ‘love is in the air.’ I don’t think they’d be advertising a kiss that is suppose to portray abuse.

Also - if we are getting into a discussion that kisses need to have branching paths if your character decides they have regrets about their decision to encourage an evil route, should DJ Shadowheart kisses have those options too? Or maybe Minthara after she decides to poison kiss you? I don’t understand why people feel that Ascended Astarion is the only path that should have disgusted facial expression.

Personally, I think the new facial expressions are neutral enough that you can characterize it how you want. When I first heard how they were ‘too happy,’ I was expecting them to be cartoonish. They have plenty of neutrality throughout them. I am happy they changed them too. The horrified ones limited roleplay if you wanted to play an evil aligned character that was into it.

I don't appreciate you mocking our rp like this. Tav doesn't know AA will do anything else than kiss them when they ask "Could I kiss you". Having asked for a kiss doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to react with surprise or confusion when he suddenly makes them kneel or grabs their neck. Even in the romance scene, Tav can object at first and doesn't look ecstatic.


No, this is a thread asking to have back what was now taken away. In the other similar threads, we were repeatedly told we should just wait to see the final expressions before we give our feedback because it was "too soon to judge". And now that we all have seen them, we're not allowed to give feedback and ask for changes either?
"The same talking points over and over again, despite having been challenged a thousand times" can be applied to saying "Tav shouldn't be scared, it doesn't make sense" over and over again too, no matter how many times we explain why it made sense for our Tavs and has always been possible.
I don't want this to derail into a debate thread again. I wanted a place for myself and others to share our post-patch release feedback, same as others did after Patch 6. Please, by all means, say you don't agree and don't support my suggestion. But if you want to debate what would or wouldn't make sense for the story at length, please don't do that in a feedback thread and in the form of repeatedly telling other people their ways of playing are ridiculous again.

So the kisses you're asking for will make any sense literally just once? You're claiming that your Tav is scared already in the transformation scene and dialog before that, but your Tav still needs the kiss option? The logic is brilliant.



So your Tav is surprised to be brought to his knees when that's already what was done to him and Tav agreed? Voluntarily, not because he was threatened. Yes, I understand why AA grabs Tav by the neck, because that's exactly what Tav was asking for, and it's something they both enjoyed. I suggest you check the script.


If you mean the “no”/“yes” dialog, I was just checking those dialog lines yesterday after the patch, Tav doesn't change his face at all. Even though you tried to convince me otherwise.

I don't need to check the script. I know Tav is only specified as enjoying it if they specifically asked him to "let it hurt". There is no reason that should carry over to other scenes, and especially not to a character who asked him to be gentle.


No, I mean Tav's face regardless of which option they choose. It looks neutral and nothing like in the new kisses. And I never tried to convince you that it changes, so you may be thinking of a conversation with someone else.



Well, technically any kiss with any companion doesn't make sense to repeat endlessly on loop in the same way. It would get old for Shadowheart to dance around Tav and for them to be endlessly amused by that too, and it wouldn't be the exact same every time if they were real people. That's just what repeatable scenes are like.

Yes, they did, but you obviously ignored it.


That's the thing, you haven't explained anything, very little argument, every time you just refer to “this is my interpretation which you are obliged to respect”, when people send you dev notes and script, you reject them because “I see it differently”. You also claim that abusive relationships are the main narrative of the AA route, which is easily refuted by the fact that those relationships are dominated by happy dialog lines. Your interpretations should have at least some basis in evidence from the game, not “well I foresaw physical violence in that route before patch 6” when it obviously wasn't there in the first place.


Like, well, yeah, but don't you think you're exaggerating too much when you say, for example, that your Tav is afraid of AA's revenge, even though that doesn't actually happen in the game? Just because of that dialog! And all your rhetoric is like that. You're imagining and exaggerating things that aren't in the game or the script.

And you constantly demand that your interpretation be respected, while you and Yharmeru constantly insinuate that other players' interpretations are superficial, while you favor more complex roleplay.



Sorry to disrupt your plans, but this is not a topic where I will be silent because it concerns my favorite character.

Ok. So Tav comes up to Astarion asking for a kiss, and then Astarion grabs Tav by the throat, Tav is scared, he feels uncomfortable. Would Tav go ask for a kiss a second time if he knows what awaits him? Okay, he'll go a couple more times, hoping that this time everything will be fine, but then he should definitely understand that there is nothing to catch. It is unlikely that he will want a continuation?
I mean that kisses with romantic interest are done in order to please the player, again and again launching pleasant kissing scenes. You, as I understand it, want to play a toxic relationship, where Tav is a victim, and this kiss will be played once or twice? It's just that those kisses that now exist, the corrected kisses, can well be considered both in a happy couple, and in a couple where Tav is afraid of the owner, and is forced to smile so that Astarion does not get angry. In my opinion, both sides were pleased.
Sorry, I really don't know why you need fear faces to use such a kiss once. As a player who plays in a toxic relationship in one of the playthroughs, I would not want to repeat such a kiss, over and over again, after such a kiss, where my character is scared, once is enough, and then Tav would break off the relationship. But for the sake of one kiss, bother and make a choice which kiss to get? Doubtful ... And I'm not writing for the sake of an argument, I'm just expressing my opinion.
I think that now kisses are ideal and perfectly suit both paths of relationship development.
If you really want to see fear on your character's face, you can ask Larian to do one such scene, without reference to these kisses, under certain conditions, but it's very difficult to do, I don't think it's possible now.

I did not ignore any of the notes or dialogues you showed me. I simply don't think any of them contradict my interpretation. On the contrary, when I showed you notes that supported our position, they were either ignored or dismissed ("threatening and abusivey" = "he's just being grumpy").

This is not something we have to agree on. I really don't want to get roped into yet another exhausting and ultimately pointless debate where I'm constantly either directly or indirectly insulted. And again, this is not a debate thread. I hope you have a nice day and enjoy the new expressions you got, but this is the last time I'm taking the bait.

And when Tav asks him to be gentle, what does AA do? Does he answer “lol no”? No! But you still want to leave those kisses with frightened expressions.



In the bed scene when AA bites Tav, Tav's face is ecstatic by default, so what? You need a personalized emotion for that? You didn't consent to the biting.

The kneeling scene, while erotic, is primarily a ritual, an oath or something. Consort kneels before the king. The transformation scene has much more significance than the eroticism, which is why Tav may have a more serious face than when kissing.


For your roleplay, kissing is literally the last option you need.

I’m not trying to be pedantic but that context node is from one of the breakup dialogues, correct? Astarion is a character full of red flags from the beginning, and I don’t really expect him to be a paragon of healthy breakup conversations (especially after your character has an active role in ascension - which he does need someone to help him with to see the scars in those scenes). Additionally, not everyone’s character decides to breakup with him which would led that to not being ‘canon’ within their roleplay.

I think that’s the point others are trying to express. Limiting the facial expressions to those of strictly disgust does not work for those that are playing their character being into the dynamic for whatever reason. They kept the new facial expression very neutral in my opinion

This is not my attempt at dissuading you from expressions your opinion, but I do want to offer a different perspective of why others are saying they like the new facial expression.