This new "discourse" on Tav's kiss expressions is purely another excuse to turn AA into some sort of abusive caricature by those who reduce Astarion to some two-dimensional villain post-ascension and push their own abuse RP onto him (and others).
Why would Larian (or any company for that matter) willingly turn their most popular character into someone who abuses the player? That would be terrible marketing and a horrible message to their playerbase.
Additionally, why should AA be the only one with negative kiss reactions from Tav when DJ Shadowheart, Minthara, God Gale, etc. all have normal reactions? Why should AA need to have additional options for how the player appears, purely due to the fact that some people insist that "evil" and "villain" automatically equal "abusive monster"? It's reductive and takes away from the depth, nuance, and uniqueness of the character and the writing behind him.
I'm so sick of this discourse. So sick of people pushing these made-up narratives onto others. It's DnD. Use your imagination and enjoy the game, rather than arguing with other players and yelling at the devs/creators who worked so hard to bring us this amazing game.
And besides, imho the kisses are now more positive yet still neutral enough to RP around. The horrified faces were extremely limiting RP-wise. *shrug*
How can you inflate this into a bloody revenge horror story that your Tav is so afraid of, and that literally doesn't happen in the game. A bloody vengeful monster in your imagination and the imagination of your Tav. That phrase does not make AA a vengeful monster in fact. But you claim it does. But the script contradicts that, the epilogue contradicts that. Patch 7 even added new dialog in the epilogue if Tav leaves with Karlach.
This is the third time this thread has been created, and its creators write literally the same thing in each of their posts. The same talking points over and over again, despite having been challenged a thousand times in previous threads, are now right there in the thread header.
I asked myself that too. I actually stay out of discussions that view Astarion's kisses in a romantic way, even if I personally don't like them. I always look at the facial expressions from the perspective of an evil Durge and they were a real storykiller and I always criticized that.
What bothers me here is that Astarion as "Villian" is automatically associated with "badwordwitha". As a Durge you are, by definition, probably a bigger "Villian" than AA ever will be and the Durge also has aspects in his story that in my opinion would not have been needed in his narrative to know who you are facing there. I'm glad that many things from the Dark Urge story that were "badwordwitha" have been removed from the game and hopefully will never appear again.
As Marielle said, Astarion was written as a funny villain and I'm very happy that he has finally returned to that role and will rule the world at my side. To me it's rather offensive that he was ever portrayed this way and I'm glad that this mistake has finally been fixed. I think it was bad enough that Patch 6 had to be discussed for so long in this forum. This forum can be read by everyone and it should be a place where you don't portray many players' favorite character in such a way because it is hurtful to many players and everyone should have fun in this forum.
Last edited by Sini; 06/09/2404:30 PM.
"Now, was that civilized? No, clearly not. Fun, but in no sense civilized" ~ Braingremlin
I think that’s the point others are trying to express. Limiting the facial expressions to those of strictly disgust does not work for those that are playing their character being into the dynamic for whatever reason. They kept the new facial expression very neutral in my opinion
I'm not asking to change them back for everyone. Only to give us an option to still have them via dialogue flags. I agree nobody should have to play with expressions that make no sense for their character or rp either way.
I'm so sick of this discourse. So sick of people pushing these made-up narratives onto others. It's DnD. Use your imagination and enjoy the game, rather than arguing with other players and yelling at the devs/creators who worked so hard to bring us this amazing game.
Why is us asking for a chance to keep our own narratives, in our own games, "pushing made-up narratives onto others"? You say we should use our imagination and enjoy the game, and then insist the way we had imagined our story and characters to be until now was wrong and reductive.
I think forcing my Tav to look like they're in the middle of a sex scene when their throat is grabbed out of nowhere is reductive and takes nuance away, same as you may feel about my interpretation. I don't understand the sentiment that us asking for a way to continue playing our characters the way we have until now is pushing something onto others, but insinuating that our stories are bad and ridiculous and lacking nuance is okay.
I did not ignore any of the notes or dialogues you showed me. I simply don't think any of them contradict my interpretation.
You claim that your Tav is afraid to break up for fear of revenge, although the scenario disproves your interpretation.
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On the contrary, when I showed you notes that supported our position, they were either ignored or dismissed ("threatening and abusivey" = "he's just being grumpy").
He's obviously just grumbling because no consequences follow, threats don't amount to anything. Show me the implications of this threat in the game, if according to you this dev note is of colossal importance in the story. If Tav breaks up with him, AA doesn't stoop to revenge, in the epilogues his attitude is more than loyal. I'd say even friendly.
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This is not something we have to agree on. I really don't want to get roped into yet another exhausting and ultimately pointless debate where I'm constantly either directly or indirectly insulted. And again, this is not a debate thread.
Once again, I'm not going to be silent in a thread where my favorite character is asked to be made a rapist again. You can pretend all you want that you're not doing anything objectionable, but the reality is that this topic is truly provocative and offensive to a lot of people.
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I hope you have a nice day and enjoy the new expressions you got, but this is the last time I'm taking the bait.
When you've been asked for more arguments, it's time to walk off into the sunset.
This is the third time this thread has been created, and its creators write literally the same thing in each of their posts. The same talking points over and over again, despite having been challenged a thousand times in previous threads, are now right there in the thread header.
I asked myself that too. I actually stay out of discussions that view Astarion's kisses in a romantic way, even if I personally don't like them. I always look at the facial expressions from the perspective of an evil Durge and they were a real storykiller and I always criticized that.
What bothers me here is that Astarion as "Villian" is automatically associated with "badwordwitha". As a Durge you are, by definition, probably a bigger "Villian" than AA ever will be and the Durge also has aspects in his story that in my opinion would not have been needed in his narrative to know who you are facing there. I'm glad that many things from the Dark Urge story that were "badwordwitha" have been removed from the game and hopefully will never appear again.
As Marielle said, Astarion was written as a funny villain and I'm very happy that he has finally returned to that role and will rule the world at my side. To me it's rather offensive that he was ever portrayed this way and I'm glad that this mistake has finally been fixed. I think it was bad enough that Patch 6 had to be discussed for so long in this forum. This forum can be read by everyone and it should be a place where you don't portray many players' favorite character in such a way because it is hurtful to many players and everyone should have fun in this forum.
I couldn't have said this better. I will say what I have been saying here since March.
My main issue with this is the conflation of "villain" with "ab**er". I strongly disagree with that read. And I think it robs the character of their complexity, what makes him so fun, as well as the authors intention. Evil =\= every bad thing ever.
We already know the writer's vision was to create a villain that was "evil via selfishness", and write a villain that was still fun enough to keep at the table. There is no indication that their intent was to write ab*se RP, or victimize the player.
Does this mean I don't think he's a villain? Big bad intimidating evil? No. I do. I think they made him with the DnD vampire model in mind. Possessive, obsessive, dark, controlling, domineering, and power hungry. That's why I love the character. But given what the author *has* said, it leaves me inclined to say that the desire to be ab*sed by AA is best left to the mods. It does not seem to be something the game ever intended, which means that it is HC, and best left to mods to accommodate outside of the game.
The expressions were dead dove. They implied severe things that the new neutral faces do not, such as non-consent, SA, and physical violence. Leaving it in the game still leaves the possibly for people to stumble onto it unwittingly. To me, this is not a question of RP. It is a matter of leaving dead dove content out of a gen audience game, where players do not go into it knowing what they're getting into.
Dead dove is best left to mods. They have omitted such material from the game before. Severe HC such as non-con and implied visual SA should not be in the game. And Larian seemed to agree, given they took it out. Asking for visceral non-con in the game for a niche roleplay for two to three people asking for it is a little over the top. Especially when it's been used to harass fans in a very widespread way for months at a time.
I have already seen more than a few new ways to HC the new kisses for ab*se RP. Many have even said Tav still looks scared, surprised, or like they're faking for Astarion because they're frightened. RP is still possible with these new faces. Patch 6, over the top faces for something niche and extremely triggering is unnecessary. I'm extremely happy with the new faces. And think an option is inconsistent, given no other character has such a thing.
I have already seen more than a few new ways to HC the new kisses for ab*se RP. Many have even said Tav still looks scared, surprised, or like they're faking for Astarion because they're frightened. RP is still possible with these new faces.
So do you think the new animations allow for different ways to rp them because Tav still looks frightened in some places, or that Tav shouldn't be allowed to look scared because that would be dead dove content? If it's the second one, why are you happy with the new faces? If it's not, why should the old faces not remain an option?
Originally Posted by Natasy
Leaving it in the game still leaves the possibly for people to stumble onto it unwittingly. To me, this is not a question of RP. It is a matter of leaving dead dove content out of a gen audience game, where players do not go into it knowing what they're getting into.
For players who saw it as dead dove or a tragic romance, before or after Patch 6, forcing their Tav to look ecstatic wouldn't change what they see in the romance. It would just not allow them to roleplay in a way that feels appropriate or comfortable to them anymore. If the original expressions were locked behind one or multiple dialogue choices of Tav expressing fear, nobody would have to stumble into content that upsets them.
I'm not insinuating your personal RP is wrong. I'm insinuating that the faces are finally in-context and appropriate when compared to literally every other romanceable character in the game, evil or otherwise.
Why should Astarion get extra options, especially ones that play into this notion that he's an abuser (especially considering his own backstory, no less)? In that vein, what if I want my Tav to look sad or traumatized in Gale's kisses? Should I make a ton of new threads asking the devs to add an option especially for me, because I personally don't buy his whole "nice guy" shtick?
You're asking for content that is specific to one, very very small player preference. Neutrality allows for infinite RPs and HCs. Specificity is limiting. If Larian were to add an option for how Tav reacts to OPTIONAL kisses with AA, then they would have to do it for ALL the characters.
The new Tav x AA faces are neutral, leaning towards positive. Claiming them to be some cartoonish, overtly sexual or elated reaction is frankly hyperbolic. With these expressions, one can still easily RP a Tav in a toxic dynamic with AA. No matter what the devs add/remove/change/fix/improve, there will always be someone/s who is unhappy with it. That's why mods exist.
You're asking for content that is specific to one, very very small player preference.
That is not true. You just have to look at any big reddit thread about this topic from after Patch 6 was released to see that a vast majority thought the old expressions made perfect sense.
Originally Posted by justasillygoose
Neutrality allows for infinite RPs and HCs. Specificity is limiting.
I would agree, but the new expressions really, really don't look neutral to me. Tav's face at the throat grab looks like it was taken straight out of a sex scene. The smirk after their face is shoved away is not neutral either.
Originally Posted by justasillygoose
If Larian were to add an option for how Tav reacts to OPTIONAL kisses with AA, then they would have to do it for ALL the characters.
No, they wouldn't. AA is the only character that has different reactions for Tav already existing in the files. Asking to add back content that was removed after being in the game for half a year is not the same thing as asking for completely different animation sets to be created based on someone's personal hc for a romance path.
That is not true. You just have to look at any big reddit thread about this topic from after Patch 6 was released to see that a vast majority thought the old expressions made perfect sense.
Well, that's not true, you just read what you wanted to read. I've seen the exact opposite situation. There were even many votes where the majority were unhappy with the kissing in patch 6.
By the way, the patch notes say that facial expressions have been tweaked throughout the game, including the kiss with Astarion. Maybe it was a mistake in patch 6, and not a special addition to show Astarion's toxicity..., Look:
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Polished facial expressions and emotions across companion dialogues, including to the facial animations of your character during some kissing cinematics, including with the Vampire Lord Astarion.
A relationship Tav can be intimidated out of leaving, and in the end can't get out of even if they want to, would not be an accurate or respectful representation of real life BDSM dynamics either way, no matter how happy Tav looks in the kisses. Equating it to that is much more disrespectful and harmful to the community than what was depicted before and never presented as a representation of healthy BDSM.
If someone wants to play intimidated and want to break up, it makes much more sense for this roleplay to choose the “Let's break up” line that is in the game, and after that line, kissing disappears. No kissing. I'm certainly not an expert on roleplaying a cowardly character, though it can be quite fun, and Larian has that option at some points in the game (like “Running away in fear from the Emperor”). Yeah, by the way, it would probably be nice to add, for those who chose that option with the Emperor, the option to agree to have sex with him with a face contorted with terror. Tav is so afraid of the Emperor that he can't refuse him - quite fitting for such a roleplay.
It is very difficult to reflect in the game all the nuances of relationships, including D/s relationships “as in real life”, and it is unlikely that Larian set himself such a task. There are consensual animated D/s scenes in the game. These scenes look like this from the outside: a “vanilla” kiss with face-grabbing, which can be suitable for both D/s and classic romance “with a peppery twist”. A kiss as a reward for kneeling Tav - as a variation of a reward for submission. Of course, the submissive will be pleased with such a reward, and the smile on their face as Astarion touches Tav's throat is more than appropriate. A variant of “punishment” for disobedience is a playful imitation of a slap (not a real slap, it can be seen) for showing initiative that the submissive should not show. The smirk in response to that action on the part of the dominant that the submissive provoked by his own action is perfect for “bad girl/boy”. I like to interpret it slightly differently, but in terms of my understanding of D/s, these scenes were probably intended that way. Especially since they were originally animated that way, and only the victim's facial expressions turned the whole thing into an “extreme specific dynamic” clearly not appropriate for an M-rated RPG game.
These scenes were filmed as D/s scenes, with the animations done separately and the facial expressions set separately in the code. And that facial expression was exactly what made these scenes disrespectful and harmful to the community. The victim's facial expressions unfairly portray the BDSM community in a bad light. Now those scenes look like healthy D/s.
Larian recently spoke at PAX West 2024. When asked about sexuality in BG3, Adam Smith mentioned that they purposely added "kinky" sexual scenes into the game to make things more authentic, and that they consider that a good thing that they're proud of. He said, "We wanted it to feel authentic... I don't think sexuality should be controversial; different kinks, arousals, fetishes, whatever it might be... I think it's okay for things to be sexy. " (his answer starts at about 51.47). Which may confirm that those kisses with AA were meant to be D/s and give pleasure to both Astarion and Tav. And the horrible faces are just an oversight.
Originally Posted by AnnaMyrk
The kisses that appeared in the game on Valentine's Day are fanservice. All players got their fanservice with happy faces, and only AA fans should have gotten the cautionary narrative, of course. For February 14, AA fans should get a personalized cautionary narrative about the cycle of violence. Evil Shadowheart killed her parents - her fans don't need moral lessons, only AA fans. Minthara is obsessed with power and can't be fixed? Her fans don't need moral lessons. Only. AA. Fans.
Except the frightened expressions are what cheap fanservice is, taken from fanfics and headcanons.
That's right. Kissing is purely a fanservice. None of the companions have any connection between “kissing” and story content, it's just adding a romantic interaction that the player can replay for their pleasure as many times as they want. And adding the ability for someone to say “Pick this, say that, and you'll see what a bad ab**er Astarion is, how he tortures your Tav, etc.” - isn't fanservice anymore, it's something else.
Originally Posted by SpookyBookey
Personally, I think the new facial expressions are neutral enough that you can characterize it how you want. When I first heard how they were ‘too happy,’ I was expecting them to be cartoonish. They have plenty of neutrality throughout them. I am happy they changed them too. The horrified ones limited roleplay if you wanted to play an evil aligned character that was into it.
Yeah, personally they are even too neutral for me, could have been done better, although the smile on the knees is very nice, and the grin after the slap is nice too and makes this situation playful instead of painful. For some reason it looks better on the male Tav than the female, he seems more content, I can't figure out why. But I'm really glad they changed them. There's passion and expression and play between Astarion and Tav now. And before, it was impossible to play either evil or chaotic-neutral (if you consider that after the ritual the “good” Tav's alignment changes), roleplay was destroyed for all characters who genuinely love Astarion (I'm not belittling anyone's “toxic romance”, I mean love for Astarion in the classic sense of the word, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with loving this or that fantasy, “story” or roleplay).
Originally Posted by Elly
I don't need to check the script. I know Tav is only specified as enjoying it if they specifically asked him to "let it hurt". There is no reason that should carry over to other scenes, and especially not to a character who asked him to be gentle.
I choose “gently” and enjoy it, nothing gets in the way. Yes, it should have been made an option for “gently” with classic romantic kisses, or leave the 5 patch kiss for “gently”. The reason is there - time constraints and technical difficulties. Larian want to finish BG3 and move on to a new project, so they fixed the scenes that were intended for D/s, as was obviously originally planned, and are unlikely to put any more resources into kissing content.
Originally Posted by justasillygoose
I couldn't agree more.
This new "discourse" on Tav's kiss expressions is purely another excuse to turn AA into some sort of abusive caricature by those who reduce Astarion to some two-dimensional villain post-ascension and push their own abuse RP onto him (and others).
Why would Larian (or any company for that matter) willingly turn their most popular character into someone who abuses the player? That would be terrible marketing and a horrible message to their playerbase.
Additionally, why should AA be the only one with negative kiss reactions from Tav when DJ Shadowheart, Minthara, God Gale, etc. all have normal reactions? Why should AA need to have additional options for how the player appears, purely due to the fact that some people insist that "evil" and "villain" automatically equal "abusive monster"? It's reductive and takes away from the depth, nuance, and uniqueness of the character and the writing behind him.
I'm so sick of this discourse. So sick of people pushing these made-up narratives onto others. It's DnD. Use your imagination and enjoy the game, rather than arguing with other players and yelling at the devs/creators who worked so hard to bring us this amazing game.
And besides, imho the kisses are now more positive yet still neutral enough to RP around. The horrified faces were extremely limiting RP-wise. *shrug*
I absolutely agree.
Originally Posted by AnnaMyrk
How can you inflate this into a bloody revenge horror story that your Tav is so afraid of, and that literally doesn't happen in the game. A bloody vengeful monster in your imagination and the imagination of your Tav. That phrase does not make AA a vengeful monster in fact. But you claim it does. But the script contradicts that, the epilogue contradicts that. Patch 7 even added new dialog in the epilogue if Tav leaves with Karlach.
It's excellent dialog that does a great job of showing AA and Tav's relationship. And the romantic epilogue itself is completely at odds with the “monster” story. The “monster” will never say words like Astarion did. A "monster" would never watch like that:
I have already seen more than a few new ways to HC the new kisses for ab*se RP. Many have even said Tav still looks scared, surprised, or like they're faking for Astarion because they're frightened. RP is still possible with these new faces.
So do you think the new animations allow for different ways to rp them because Tav still looks frightened in some places, or that Tav shouldn't be allowed to look scared because that would be dead dove content? If it's the second one, why are you happy with the new faces? If it's not, why should the old faces not remain an option?
I personally do not find that Tav looks scared. I think Tav looks quite neutral, with a range of mild emotion that facilitate a wide array of RP. Me reiterating others interpretation does not mean it is mine. I am simply repeating that other people who RP ab*se in the way you seem to be seeking, are still seeing what they desire and are able to RP just fine. So Larian is not squashing player agency or abuse in this patch. Having a face that can be deciphered multiple ways is much better than having an over the top dread expression with no room for interpretation.
Originally Posted by Elly
Originally Posted by Natasy
Leaving it in the game still leaves the possibly for people to stumble onto it unwittingly. To me, this is not a question of RP. It is a matter of leaving dead dove content out of a gen audience game, where players do not go into it knowing what they're getting into.
For players who saw it as dead dove or a tragic romance, before or after Patch 6, forcing their Tav to look ecstatic wouldn't change what they see in the romance. It would just not allow them to roleplay in a way that feels appropriate or comfortable to them anymore. If the original expressions were locked behind one or multiple dialogue choices of Tav expressing fear, nobody would have to stumble into content that upsets them.
I'm sorry but calling these faces "ecstatic" is a huge dramatization of what they are. It has already mislead quite a few people who then saw the faces and realized they were not the jokeresque animation they'd been led to believe. Which, seems to be a theme with the AA path. Stating things in an inflammatory way to malign the path. I do not think they're ecstatic.
It does not matter if the choice is locked behind a dialogue path. Unless people are meta-gaming, they're not going to know how far the scene is going to go. There is no content warning. They're trusting devs not to take things too far. And what if there are players who choose those dialogue options, but do not believe the result *should* be SA/non-con? I know people who select those options for fun, but don't believe AA is an abuser. Why should they be forced to now have that RP ruined by domestic violence, for a handful of niche players? You will get what you want (things not made for a gen audience) via mods. If you want to HC being ab*sed, you still can. Others are already forming arguments as to how. You're not being barred from anything except using patch 6 faces as an argument and a talking point.
Overly exaggerated fear is unnecessary for RP. Neutral faces work best. And I think the ones in the game now are great!
That is not true. You just have to look at any big reddit thread about this topic from after Patch 6 was released to see that a vast majority thought the old expressions made perfect sense.
Well, that's not true, you just read what you wanted to read. I've seen the exact opposite situation. There were even many votes where the majority were unhappy with the kissing in patch 6.
Can you point me to a thread like that? Those votes were conducted in spaces where only fans with a non-tragic interpretation of AA were welcome. They don't accurately reflect the average player's opinion.
Originally Posted by Marielle
If someone wants to play intimidated and want to break up, it makes much more sense for this roleplay to choose the “Let's break up” line that is in the game, and after that line, kissing disappears.
It doesn't if Tav is intimidated out of their attempt to break up.
Originally Posted by Natasy
I'm sorry but calling these faces "ecstatic" is a huge dramatization of what they are.
I don't think it is. They look ridiculously ecstatic to me, and I'm not the only one. How else would you call a face with closed eyes and a wide grin that many people who saw it have described as looking "orgasmic"?
Originally Posted by Natasy
I know people who select those options for fun, but don't believe AA is an abuser. Why should they be forced to now have that RP ruined by domestic violence, for a handful of niche players?
I could ask why we should have our rp ruined for a handful of niche players too. In any bg3 fan space that is not moderated and/or dominated by fans of non-tragic AA interpretations, the old faces were generally liked and accepted as true to the character.
In patch 7, thankfully, Tav's facial expressions in their romantic kisses with the Ascended Astarion are now finally more or less in line with Astarion's story, and also represent an example of beautiful, passionate and consensual D/s scenes. I sincerely congratulate all members of the BDSM community who play this game on the fact that D/s romance is now represented in such a wonderful game as Baldur's Gate 3! <3
As someone who is interested in BDSM, this sounds insulting to me. (Warning: discussion of abuse)
I'm sorry, but Ascended Astarion and Tav have NOTHING to do with any kind of true BDSM relationship. IronBull/Inquisitor - well, that was a representation of BDSM in a game (DAI). They have a safe word, they discuss their bondaries, they can break up any time they want. Sorry, but this is the COMPLETE OPPOSITE to what Tav and AA canonically have. AA isn't a dom. AA is Tav's master. Tav is his slave. Maybe a happy one, whatever you choose to headcanon. But stop twisting canon into something it's not. You are normalizing and romanticizing abuse by that. It's gross.
Okay folks, remember that our forum rules state we must respect each others’ opinions and character preferences. And that we shouldn’t antagonise or mock each other. Or flood the forum with repetitive posts.
Let’s bring the heat down, and keep it civil.
"You may call it 'nonsense' if you like, but I've heard nonsense, compared with which that would be as sensible as a dictionary!"
I'm sorry but calling these faces "ecstatic" is a huge dramatization of what they are.
I don't think it is. They look ridiculously ecstatic to me, and I'm not the only one. How else would you call a face with closed eyes and a wide grin that many people who saw it have described as looking "orgasmic"?
And yet plenty of people who read AA as an ab*ser do not have an issue with the smile. There were smiles in patch 6. People also say AA screams at Karlach in the epilogue, and slaps the player. Again, the reading is niche and an extreme. And most on both sides of the isle are able to RP with neutral faces with one or two random "smiles". Some even read them as flinching/grimaces. You don't have to like it. Thats cool. But asking for a toggle does not make sense unless they add a toggle for everyone.
Originally Posted by Elly
Originally Posted by Natasy
I know people who select those options for fun, but don't believe AA is an abuser. Why should they be forced to now have that RP ruined by domestic violence, for a handful of niche players?
I could ask why we should have our rp ruined for a handful of niche players too. In any bg3 fan space that is not moderated and/or dominated by fans of non-tragic AA interpretations, the old faces were generally liked and accepted as true to the character.
The majority of non-AA exclusive fandom spaces are dominated by spawn fans (see the polls). Who are very vitriolic against the ascended path, and believe we are "delusional" and AA is a soulless monster. That is the majority pleased by patch 6 faces. As identified by actual data. People who have outwardly stated it's Larian "teaching us a lesson", and we're just "stupid, delusional, abuse apologists, who are illiterate" (actual quotes, and the mildest I've seen). Are there AA fans who think that too? Sure. This is not me saying you or anyone with ab*se RP is a "fake fan". It's an acknowledgement that the "majority" you're referencing are *self identified spawn fans*. And no, I don't think Larian should cater the AA path to spawn fans who hate the path. Even if it pleases a handful of AA fans who share the same ideas as them.
As I have said once already, but again, will reiterate:
The expressions were dead dove. They implied severe things that the new neutral faces do not, such as non-consent, SA, and physical violence. Leaving it in the game still leaves the possibly for people to stumble onto it unwittingly. **To me, this is not a question of RP. It is a matter of leaving dead dove content out of a gen audience game, where players do not go into it knowing what they're getting into.
Okay folks, remember that our forum rules state we must respect each others’ opinions and character preferences. And that we shouldn’t antagonise or mock each other. Or flood the forum with repetitive posts.
Let’s bring the heat down, and keep it civil.
Please, no attacks on fans here or anywhere else, and don’t import beefs from elsewhere.
"You may call it 'nonsense' if you like, but I've heard nonsense, compared with which that would be as sensible as a dictionary!"
Many spawn fans like the ascended path too. Seeing it as a tragedy does not make someone less of a "real" fan, and someone primarily liking the UA ending doesn't mean their interpretation should be discarded as "not an AA fan, so it doesn't matter and should not be reflected in the game". I don't believe you or anyone else is "delusional" for their interpretation of a fictional romance path. What bothers me is insisting that other people with different interpretations of the narrative are just "spawn fans" and therefore should be discarded when things like this are discussed. For context, all of my characters romance AA, because that story is more compelling and important to me.
Originally Posted by Natasy
But asking for a toggle does not make sense unless they add a toggle for everyone.
Why not? The other characters never had different reactions for Tav players could want back.
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